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networking Win98 and WinXp (Home Edition)

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networking Win98 and WinXp (Home Edition)

Hi,
I'm having a problem networking my WinXP laptop to a Win98 desktop.
The laptop is connected to the network wirelessly, while the desktop is connected via a 100Mbps cable. I've set everything I can find up. I'm using static IP addresses and have set the workgroups on both pc's. Both PC's share an internet connection via a router. Both pc's can ping each other ok and the Win98 desktop can see the laptop in the network neighbourhood. The XP laptop however cannot see the desktop. I have also tried going Start -> Run -> "\\computer3" from the xp machine, but it can't find it (computer3 is the Win98 desktop).
Also on this network I have 2 Win2k desktops, which can happily see both the Win98 machine, the WinXP machine and each other. I have, as close as I can tell, set the XP laptop up in the same way that I have set the Win2k desktops up. I have set up the xp machine (and both the 2k machines) to shares files and printers and to use the NetBEUI and TCP/IP protocols. Within the TCP/IP advanced settings I have set it to use NetBIOS over TCP/IP.

The annoying thing is that I used to have it working fine (after having similar problems), but can't remember what I did. The reason I need to do it again is that I had a problem with the laptop and support insisted I try using the recovery disks which wiped everything (and didn't solve the problem either!)

I don't use the WinXP firewall, but I do use a 3rd party firewalls (1 on each pc). I have tried allowing all traffic through and even stoping the firewalls, but this didn't help.

Has anyone got any suggestions that might help?

If you need any other information about the setup I will do my best to provided it.

Thanks in advance.

Aron.
31 REPLIES
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Win98 & WinXP No Can do???

Hi,

Yes! fortunately I have come across what I think is your precise problem, I had horrendous problems trying to network win98 desktop to a win XP pro workstation. I had pretty much all the same symptoms you've described in your thread. When you hear the answer to this you will kick yourself for all then hours spent trying to get this to work and I certainly hated Microsoft even more afterwards.

OK the root cause of this problem is that both versions of windows use different file systems and different networking protocols. Win98 uses FAT32 or VFAT depending upon which win98 version your using (i.e. win98 or win98 SE) and winXP uses NTFS. Win98 uses NETBIOS for networking and WinXP uses is TCP/IP.

MS have dropped full support for the NETBIOS networking in WinXP due to trying to move all future users over to a broadband ADSL netorking type environment and so is encouraging everyone to drop the earlier windows networking protocols such as netbios and wins in favour of TCP/IP.

WinXP supports TCP/IP and all its related networking stuff like IPSEC, QOS,etc and so XP will certainly see Win98 and a WIN98 SE machine but you wont be able to connect to it, nor will you be able to transfer files or see shared folders. You might even see the shared folds but wont be able to get any futher.

**PS Win98 probably wont see your XP machine or might appear in the network nabourhood but wont connect to it.

After days and days banging my brains out on this blasted issue, I only discovered the real nature of this problem and its true cause after hours of trawling the MS website and the answer was in some obscure article in the MS Knlowedge base i.e. Technet.

**Anyway I found a lovely solution that completely cracked my problem of sharing and moving files between any (Yes!! thats right your eyes dont decieve you!!) ANY version of windows for Win3.1 to WinXP pro.

Its a software program called LINKMAVEN you can even download a free trail version which is fully featured to try before you buy. I CANNOT RECOMMEND THIS PRODUCT HIGHLY ENOUGH to anyone who wants to transfer files between windows versions. It does require a file transfer cable to work correctly but one of these cost me less than £20 at the time and was well worth the cost. It works parellel printer port to parallel printer port just to confuse you completely.

Here's the link:- http://www.briggsoft.com/lmaven.htm

Ivan Cool
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networking Win98 and WinXp (Home Edition)

Thanks for this, but I have had it working before without any 3rd party software and I'd like to get it working again. I know I did because my Win98se machine is left on pretty much all the time, so I put any files I might need to access from muliple pc's on this machine so I could access them later from any of the others.

I'm pretty sure the win98 machine hasn't changed it's config, so it must be the WinXP laptop (the way I see it).

I've looked over the internet and everyone else seems to have the opposite problem, i.e. they can see the Win98 machine from an XP machine, but can't see the XP machine from an Win98 machine.

I'm sure I found a website that helpped, but I can't find it again.

Aaaaahhh!
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XP & Win98

Hello Again,

Yep! I'd comfirm that this is true and its definately this way around.
Quote
I've looked over the internet and everyone else seems to have the opposite problem, i.e. they can see the Win98 machine from an XP machine, but can't see the XP machine from an Win98 machine.


I think your wasting your time and I dont see how you will ever get win98 to talk directly to your winXP machine for the reasons I've already outlined to you. Win98 doesnt use TCP/IP and its NOT supported for the kind of task you wish to accomplish and winXP has dropped NETBIOS for a whole range of reasons as per my previous thread. But good luck I hope you manage it, let me know if you do I'd be extremely interested to hear how you achieve it?? As I said before I wasted days and days trying to figure this issue out and Linkmaven was the best solution I could come up with.

Best Regards Ivan
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An Additonal thought

The reason linkmaven works so well is that it doesnt relay totally on windows or the version of windows you are using inorder to transfer files or data between machines i.e. its not OS dependant and it also uses the RS232 parallel printer port so data can be transferred quite quickly. Linkmaven isnt dependent on a the conventional networking protocols either.

Ivan
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Re: XP & Win98

Quote
Hello Again,

Yep! I'd comfirm that this is true and its definately this way around.
Quote
I've looked over the internet and everyone else seems to have the opposite problem, i.e. they can see the Win98 machine from an XP machine, but can't see the XP machine from an Win98 machine.


I think your wasting your time and I dont see how you will ever get win98 to talk directly to your winXP machine for the reasons I've already outlined to you. Win98 doesnt use TCP/IP and its NOT supported for the kind of task you wish to accomplish and winXP has dropped NETBIOS for a whole range of reasons as per my previous thread. But good luck I hope you manage it, let me know if you do I'd be extremely interested to hear how you achieve it?? As I said before I wasted days and days trying to figure this issue out and Linkmaven was the best solution I could come up with.

Best Regards Ivan
:?


I appreciate what you are saying, but as I said, I have had this working. I just can't remember what on earth I had to do to get it working. If I do get it working I'll try to remember to post the resolution here.
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networking Win98 and WinXp (Home Edition)

since when has win98 not used TCP/IP - I'm sorry to say but yes it does

if you want to check you configuration for TCP/IP in win98 run the program winipcfg - its part of the basic install if you have a network card installed.

We have many customers set up with pc's running various operating systems from win98, nt, win2000, winxp and all use tcp/ip

remember tcp/ip even worked for dos using the correct dos drivers - mainly called lanman which was supplied with early network cards

make sure your networks and lmhosts file are configured as well - there were many bugs in the networking components of win98

also remember when you map drives or read shares across windows based machines it doesnt matter if they are fat16, fat32, ntfs as the network protocols take over - only major problem you have is that win98 and nt don't like sharenames with spaces in so you need them in dos format of 8.3
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networking Win98 and WinXp (Home Edition)

Have you upgraded or added a firewall to either machine. Norton Security or similar?
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networking Win98 and WinXp (Home Edition)

I'm using the same firewall on both pc's that I had used previously.

Do I need to use the lmhosts files since all my machines are on the same network in the same IP range?
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networking Win98 and WinXp (Home Edition)

yes for the win98 machines

use both lmhosts and networks

if you never used them before or edited them there are samples in the windows directories - you can edit these but save them without any extension.

to refresh the routing table on your pc run nbtstat -R from a command prompt

check all your firewalls especially winxp
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networking Win98 and WinXp (Home Edition)

Quote
yes for the win98 machines

use both lmhosts and networks

if you never used them before or edited them there are samples in the windows directories - you can edit these but save them without any extension.

to refresh the routing table on your pc run nbtstat -R from a command prompt

check all your firewalls especially winxp


I can't see that applying unless a third party router has benn added to mix.

The bit in bold however.......


double check your IPconfig and make sure you can ping each machine. Also double check that you have supplied the same login credentials on both machines.
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networking Win98 and WinXp (Home Edition)

Your problem (or one of your problems, anyway) seems to be "SMB network browsing". There's some helpful background information about this on the Samba website, and, in particular, Chapter 7, Name Resolution and Browsing of the "Using Samba" book. Chapter 1 is also an extremely good introduction to SMB networking in general.

The important point to bear in mind here is that the list of computers seen in the XP laptop's "My Network Places" list doesn't come from the Windows 98 system itself (well, not directly from it), but from the PC on your LAN which is acting as the "local master browser". That's hardly likely to be the Windows 98 machine, since, as that chapter relates, in a browser election, Windows 95/98/Me systems have a score of 1 compared with a score of 16 for a Windows NT/2000/XP system.

If I remember correctly, the way it works is the list of computers is obtained from the local master browser, but when you want to see the resources at a particular PC, then it does go to the PC itself to find out. (And, by all accounts, that's not working either.) So, if you can't see the list of PCs in My Network Places, something's going wrong between the master browser and the XP laptop.

You can find out which PC is the browse master by using the nbtstat command. EG, nbtstat -n to query the NetBIOS name table of the local machine; nbtstat -a <remote host's NetBIOS name> or nbtstat -A <remote host's IP Address> to see the NetBIOS name table of a remote host. The host which has registered the name shown as "..__MSBROWSE__.<01>" is the one acting as the local master browser.

Concerning the use of LMHOSTS files, you could try an experiment using IP addresses instead of NetBIOS names. For example, you say the command net view \\computer3 doesn't work, but does the command net view \\<IP Address of computer3> work? If it does, then an LMHOSTS file, which resolves NetBIOS host names to their IP Addresses, may well help you.

If you do an ipconfig /all command (winipcfg on the Windows 98 system), what sort of "Node Type" is shown? I suspect they're all "Broadcast" nodes? (Chapter 1 of that book will explain the significance of this.)


As far as the firewall business goes, from your %SYSTEMROOT%\System32\drivers\etc\services file, you'll see that NetBIOS uses ports 137 (name service -- so crucial to network browsing!), 138 (datagram service) and 139 (session service), so your firewall(s) must allow your LAN hosts to access those ports.
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networking Win98 and WinXp (Home Edition)

ok, I did an nbtstat -n and nbtstat -a <computer name> and found the master browser. In this case it was my laptop, possibly because it was turned on first? The other pc's are a win2k and win98 pc, so not sure why the winxp pc is the master browser unless it's because it was turned on first.
Now with the WinXP machine set as the master browser the WinXP laptop can't see the win98 pc, however the win 2k pc can see the win98 machine, using the winxp machine as the master browser.
The winxp pc can ping the win98 pc using the name as well as the ip address, so I'm guessing the hosts and lmhosts stuff must be set up ok?
The winXP machine can also do a nbtstat -a <name> on the win98 pc.
So everything look fine and dandy until I try a net view \\computer3 (win98 machine). This produces a "System error 51 has occurred" message. Doing a net view \\<IP address> returns a "System 53 has occurred" message, both complaining about a network path. Also I still can't see the win98 machine in the network neighbourhood.
All the firewalls are set to allow all network traffic between the pc's on the network, so this shouldn't be a problem.
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networking Win98 and WinXp (Home Edition)

if you can ping the win98 pc both by name and ip then you've got the connection and your hosts are configured correctly (remember networking uses the local host/network files first)

on the win98 pc have you setup a share in 8.3 format - if not set it

if you have then try this from explorer don't bother with network neighbourhood - \\computername\sharename

ensure passwords are set correctly and you should be able to connect - the way i set them up is that both pc's have the same username and passwords setup (as it makes it simpler)

As I said win98 has many network bugs

another solution that sometimes works is that you remove the drivers for the network card under win98 and then reboot and let windows reinstall the drivers.
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networking Win98 and WinXp (Home Edition)

I've tried the whole \\computername\share thing and it doesn't work.
I've got 2 Win2k pc's configured the same as the xp machine and they can see the Win98 machine fine.
The login's are the same for all (except 1 Win2000 pc).
3 Drives are shared on the Win98 box and are viewable from the Win2k machines.
It used to be viewable from the XP laptop too, except a fault developed on the laptop and support repeatedly suggested I do a system restore, as I hadn't used the laptop much since the last time it developed a fault I thought I didn't have much to lose, although I doubted it would work (which it didn't as it was a hardware fault). Since then I have not been able to get the XP machine to see the Win98 machine again, well not the shares anyway.
I'm pretty sure the win98 machine has remained unchanged, so I figure it must be the XP machine, although like I said, I seem to have that set up like the working Win2k machines.

Thanks for everyone's suggestions so far, they have taught me some things even if they haven't solved the problem.