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What a joke!!

francoise-hardy
Grafter
Posts: 94
Registered: 30-07-2007

What a joke!!

Well, following chaotic evening for disconnects, here is what my currently open ticket says on last 2 f9 replies
'Assigned : [Internal] Update received from BT:

'15 - CSE visited your customer on 09.03.06, cse notes read cable mostly alluminium and to refer to provisions'

Please chase with Provisioning. '

AND

Assigned : *internal** provisions have no update fault is still open

Who or what are 'provisions'? Any ideas anyone?
I thought you got them at a supermarket. Perhaps I should try Tesco broadband? Good job I still have a sense of humour, despite these trying (to connect!!) times.
I am 1.5km from the town centre exchange. I still keep reading all the f9 blurb about 4MB and 8MB that is on the way. NO CHANCE for me at this rate. 2MB is so unreliable.
nil desperandum!
robinh
16 REPLIES
francoise-hardy
Grafter
Posts: 94
Registered: 30-07-2007

What a joke!!

I am totally p***** off with my current connection - I can no longer call it a service!
Tonight, I am again suffering loss of data led on my router yet again (page cannot be displayed). According to my router, last night noise margin was varying between 10.5 and 20 db in space of 2 hours. At the moment it is only 10db.
This is an ongoing issue, I have previously raised a ticket and specificly instructed f9 NOT to close it. I now find this ticket has disappeared from my account login page where it had resided. (closed??) All I wanted to do tonight is get contact with customer service so as to possibly get an agreement of action plan. In any case, they have ignored my previous request about how much cash they may extort from me to pay bt to repair my marginal 1.5km line. YES, 1.5km from exchange, and it NO LONGER works correctly for 2MB! BT may want to charge ME to fix it! I refuse to use the phone to speak to f9 as you can sit waiting 15 minutes for a human being in customer service. I tried raising new ticket (so as to establish communication about this 'lost' ticket). I am now faced with the warning panel about site security certificate. I click 'yes' I wish to proceed. I then either get a lockup OR (due to fault) 'please try again in a few minutes'.
I have been trying for over 30 minutes! F9 service is a sick joke - you only have to read other entries.
So, I am currently unable even to communicate with customer service about my ticket.
SO, anyone ANY ideas as to how to get them to resolve my problem, or even to communicate with me?
At least there are the forums to let off steam with some wonderful fellow f9 sufferers who lend their ear.
robinh
N/A

Re: What a joke!!

Quote
I tried raising new ticket (so as to establish communication about this 'lost' ticket). I am now faced with the warning panel about site security certificate. I click 'yes' I wish to proceed. I then either get a lockup OR (due to fault) 'please try again in a few minutes'.


Unfortunately site security seems to be at the bottom of the pile at the moment, I have had an open ticket since 16th Jan about the certificate and it has been a problem since at least November.

Quote
SO, anyone ANY ideas as to how to get them to resolve my problem, or even to communicate with me?


There was a similar scenario on the +Net newsgroup with another user who wouldn't ring CS. I'm afraid that if you can't get contact us to work, then telephoning is the only other option as they are the only two methods that F9 will accept as support avenues.

Not much help I know, but...

Regards

Mark
N/A

What a joke!!

Hi robinh,

OK read your latest posting and my heart goes out to you, I feel for you. Its a classic catch 22 case (i.e. dammed if you do & dammed if you dont, words like rock & hard place come to mind?!!).

However, I know I'm talking to the converted here but line noise is a classic symptom on ADSL connections, noise levels do up & down constantly during any 24hr period and the cause's can also be quite varied I'm told. Line noise is clearly a BT problem.

Have you tried reporting a fault to BT on your voice calls (doesnt matter if you dont really have one at all??) contact BT and tell them that you have a fault with your voice service that it has excessive noise.

**NOTE: in this situation DONT what ever you do say its an internet connection problem and DONT mention f9 or PlusNet as your ISP (just play dumb and say you dont know if they do ask you!!) why? because the nanosecond they know its an ISP internet problem they will drop you like a hot coal) Several F9 users have gone this route with BT and the noise problems have been resolved. YES! there are things BT can do at there end behined the scenes as it were to reduce line noise. Line noise can cause ADSL Connections too fail, drop connections or extremely poor speeds etc.

**Its worth a try you dont have anything too loose, Its a BT problem in my book NOT an F9 problem. Remember normally a user has to go via there own ISP to get a BT fault sorted out and it can take ages anbd ages too.

Ivan
francoise-hardy
Grafter
Posts: 94
Registered: 30-07-2007

What a joke!!

Thanks Ivan.
Well, another f9 user suggested that (it also worked for him) about 12 to 14 days ago. So, nothing to lose, I politely spoke to a bt lady (in India??), explaining I had an intermittent problem with crackle on my phone (no mention of adsl), though it had mysteriously gone whilst reporting to her! A line test was done, I was informed it was currently ok, and if I wanted to pursue this intermittent fault I would be expected to pay a charge (£46+??) if (WHEN!) it was checked and confirmed as nff. I tried arguing that unless an engineer spent all day listening for the intermittent noise, then it may well be nff, but that was not my problem, it was theirs. She again stated that I was responsible for the charge if it was nff. Stalemate!!
Oh well, I tried.
Anyway, I have proved the adsl intermittent that i have is still present with a different modem router plugged directly into the test socket behind master socket front. F9 reckon that in that case, bt SHOULD NOT charge as it is obviously an external fault. So, shortly I am contacting f9 to request escalation to bt. If they should DARE to charge me, then watch 'Watchdog'.
As previously stated, I am an engineer in aeronautical electronics communications, working in customer services. I do not intend for bt to find a fault of my making! My daughter (who is a qualified trading standards officer), would never let me forget either!
I again thank you ALL for advice and support. I only wish I could be more help to others in these forums. Alas, my pc knowledge is very limited, even though I have held an amateur radio licence for nearly 40 years.
Hopefully, in a week or so, all adsl faultsshould be repaired. I will keep you informed.
Best wishes, robinh.
francoise-hardy
Grafter
Posts: 94
Registered: 30-07-2007

What a joke!!

Hi again Ivan and Mark.
Well, between loss of service last night (at worst, 2 outages of about 5 minutes in a 15 minute period, (noise margin down to 7.5db, upto 11db), I found THIS

http://usertools.plus.net/exchanges/

Lo and behold, My exchange is showing RED with a speed issue. How come f9 have never told me this and possibly saved me a lot of upset??
Anyway, I have now asked f9 to escalate my fault to bt.
robinh
N/A

What a joke!!

Hi robinh,

The BT exchange information shown on the usertools website, I guess is seen as information for knowleable users or users in the know? but F9 support wouldnt suggest it because the usertools site is seen as seperate from them at CSC, its NOT on their radar if you like.

YES! sometimes it definately is worthwile to check the usertools site as it does appear to show information not found else where. IMO

**As I said before your problem IS noise or a noisy line so its 100% definately a BT problem and so I think your realistic to pursue it further via F9. The lady in Banglor or Mumby (bombay) was fobbing you off with the corporate BT speak, its just their job to do that as frustrating as it is.

Yes! the reporting a BT voice call fault/problem doesnt always work but I have seen postings on the forum from other users who have had some success with that approach. But genuine BT line problems have to be passed via F9 to the BT faults people. NOT expect it to be sorted very quickly it can take any where from 7-20 days roughly.

Ivan
N/A

What a joke!!

I have in the past reported voice faults when an ADSL problem has occurred, but..... and it is a very big but. I report it online and sign up for text message reports. There is a quick line test done and it will report there and then if there is a fault at exchange level or consumer side of socket.

I did it so many times last year and the fault was gone about 30 minutes after reporting the problem.

HTH

Mark
francoise-hardy
Grafter
Posts: 94
Registered: 30-07-2007

What a joke!!

Hi Ivan and Mark,
Thanks again for your time in advising.Just an update. using http://usertools.force9.net/exchanges/ just now, Spalding exchange vp is showing green again. Historically it seems to alternate red/green.
Also at about 1230 today bt rang to say a check revealed NO FAULT. I explained the intermittent nature and my competence in carrying out checks and an appointment has been made for bt to visit between 1030-1300 on March 9. I do hope they find a fault so as I don't have to pay for this intermittent problem - we shall see! So, I started my router diagnostics page, and noise margin has been as good as 21.5db. It is now down to 13dB. This is in a 30 minute span just now. I am saving some screendumps to show the engineer (if he's interested though). Something to look at with tea and biscuits perhaps!
Finally, I have in my router stats some figures. (View as near end/far end)
Fast path CRC error 2720/2
Fast path HEC error 1689/1689
Interleaved path CRC error 0/5
Interleaved path HEC error 0/1
Fast path FEC correction 0/0
Interleaved path FEC correction 2/2
If these are no significance, don't bother to explain.
I have also put a posting about 'contact us' not working, in Community Support Forum following yet another problem!
robinh
N/A

What a joke!!

Hi robinh,

The CRC (Cyclical Redundancy Check) is used in networking to check if the data sent was the data received, if not then based on the CRC some data packets or frames may be sent again. In other words CRC is used the check the integrity of the data. I dont know about the HEC it may be similar though?

**Different manufactures use different terms.


Ivan
francoise-hardy
Grafter
Posts: 94
Registered: 30-07-2007

What a joke!!

Hi Mark and Ivan. Router been on probably 30 hours now. Well, been keeping screen dumps of router stats. Best s/n 23 db @ 1015, worst 8db @ 2115 . Currently 15db. Been no drops all day until 2115, then 5 drops in past hour or so. Checking router linestats both when working and not working DOES NOT show any difference in atten or sig/noise. CRC error stats go into 4k+. I even lost data led whilst typing this. Refreshing router page brought back on again. As always, just lose data led and get 'page cannot be displayed'. Sync is ALWAYS on.
SO, do you still think it is bt problem?
I have asked f9 via ticket TWICE now for info, but NO reply! They can be VERY SLOW at times. I need to know whether bt still need to check my line. I don't wish to pay if there is a f9 problem causing loss of data. If bt arrive, say it is a f9 issue and charge me, I will not be amused. Especially as I am continually requesting f9 help and advice.
Thanks,
robinh
N/A

What a joke!!

Hello robinh,

Look I've read through all your postings on this topic, and from all the things you've stated thus far. I'm personally of the same opinion as before this is a line noise problem YES! admittedly an intermittent problem. YES! I'm still of the opinion that its a phone line i.e. a BT related problem and NOT a router problem.

**However, have you actually tried a different router on the same line and check for noise stats on this. That would be an obvious way to confirm its NOT or is the router?

**Is this a new or old router, have you had the same router successfully running for any good length of time before all these problems?

**Look the fact that your lines Db levels are going up & down suggests line noise and 8bd worst is clearly on or close to the threashold. 5 drops in a short space of time also from past experience also tends to re-enforce the idea of noise as the issue here. Noise can & does cause random dropped connections this is what happened to me and BT tweaking the gain on my line solved the issue & my line has good stability ever since.

Ivan
francoise-hardy
Grafter
Posts: 94
Registered: 30-07-2007

What a joke!!

Hi Ivan, thanks for info. It was just an observation I had made. Lets hope bt find and fix my problem. I have borrowed an identical router from a work colleague. This has been in use here about 3 to 4 weeks now. I have not noticed it is better or worse than mine. I suppose it might be an idea to go back to my orig router and see what stats that gives. I realise any stats I see are not absolute measurements like bt will make.
Yesterday I used my laptop via wireless connection into the router. I switched off main pc, unplugged monitor, just in case emc issue. On laptop, linestats were same. (Someone at work had a flatscreen power supply that radiated sufficient noise to cause adsl problem. It may be worth others bearing in mind??)
I have been leaving router (only) on 24 hours as requested by f9 during this faultfinding process.
So, this morning at 0700, saw no data led on. As part of my advanced(!) fault finding, I started up laptop first so as to try and connect without going near desk(so as not to disturb router, mouse, keyboard, cables, plugs etc). Still NO data led. Checked stats via laptop as 21db s/n, 39db loss. SO, I then powered up main pc. Still NO data led. After about 10 mins of not working, decided to phone f9. Yes, you guessed, I got the outage message!!
SO, this time the problem WAS f9. Looking at their updates today, they mention a radius platform problem. NOW, when I spoke to Belkin UK tech dept about 3 weeks ago, he suggested there may be a 'radius server' issue causing my intermittent fault. He didnt rule out an intermittent router either. I did by replacing it! As f9 had never suggested a fault elsewhere in their network in my tickets, I went along the recommended route of replacing everything one by one, then getting bt involved on Mar 9.
As before, I am not well up on adsl, nor jargon, but I know how to fault find. Could there be a possible connection between f9 fault and my int problem?
Regards as always
robinh
francoise-hardy
Grafter
Posts: 94
Registered: 30-07-2007

What a joke!!

Further.
Just connected original router back again and noise margin is 1 db better, line atten is same. This may not be any different as regular checks on noise margin show a 0.5 to 1 db change if taken within 1 minute. It will be interesting what happens later on this evening around 9pm. Current margin is 11db, atten 40db. About norm this time of day.
I wonder, do others have worse sig/noise margin in the evening? Just a thought.
robinh
Nearly lost it!!!!
The above text I just managed to 'copy', as after clicking on 'submit' I noticed data led was out!! Just checked stats, 12db noise margin, 40 db atten.
francoise-hardy
Grafter
Posts: 94
Registered: 30-07-2007

What a joke!!

Well, bt arrived bang on time as promised. A most efficient engineer carried out various tests which were all ok. Evidently my almost marginal 40db downstream loss is probably due to aluminium cabling in this area. Tests he performed agreed with my router statistics. ie 22 to 23 db noise margin. This was at 1100, when it is normally good. Looking at router NOW, it has lost data! Current stats are 40db loss, 16db noise margin. This should be good enough to work, but it doesn't. After attempting to refresh my open ebay page, hey presto! It connects again.
So, I am still left with an intermittent broadband service. I must say, I am totally happy with the engineers tests he carried out, his professional friendly attitude and results that he showed me, but this still does not fix my fault! I really need an investigation in the evenings, when fault is most likely to manifest itself. Alas, I do not think this will happen. So, anyone any ideas where I go now? f9 want me to (rightly) monitor what happens now. As nothing has been fixed, I expect it to fail repeatedly, like 5 minutes ago.
In the next day or two I intend to connect a 10khz to 1.5ghz spectrum analyser to an antenna near my pc to see if there is any apparent emc issue. (I am possibly the only f9 user that possesses one?!) I am also going to ask a few neighbours if they have broadband and if they have problems. I am clutching at straws, but know of little else that can be done.
robinh
As I am about to post, I have had 2 outages in less than one hour.