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Help please - is it a faulty phone?

N/A

Help please - is it a faulty phone?

Hi,
I wonder if anyone can offer any suggestions. For some time now I have had the problem where my router internitently loses synch. I have an open ticket on the problem [ 16189008 ].

BT have tested the line and they say it's ok - so do F9. We decided that I needed to try another router so I bought a BT Voyager 240 about 3 weeks ago. Since using the new router losing synch problem seems to be a little improved but not totally. I still rarely go over 24 hours without losing synch - sometimes for ages.

The other night - while the router was trying to re-negotiate synch I decided to lift my telephone handset to see if I could hear any noise on the line. I got the normal dial tone and could hear a little noise reminisant of the noise you used to hear when dialing out with an old 56k modem. Anyway - as soon as I got the "Please replace the handset and try again" message I noticed that my adsl connection had come back up. "Curious?" I thought "But it's probably just a coincidence." I resolved to try this again the next time I lost synch.

Well since that first time - I have tried this 4 more times whenever I have lost synch and it's worked every single time!

So now I am thinking I have got a dodgy phone - it's a BT Duet 200 - I think they were made in 1993.

However - I had a search around the WWW and found this
http://www.dslreports.com/faq/11821 and its making me think that replacing my phone won't help.

Ideas anyone?
BTW: My router and phone are connected to the master BT socket via a splitter - new splitter bought from BT - have tried several - same results. I have no extentions or other equipment connected.

Cheers
Ven
20 REPLIES
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Noisey line?

Hi Ven,

Have you specifically asked BT or F9 to test your phone line for line noise, line noise can be a direct cause for dropped connections with ADSL. Line noise is mesured in Db (decibells) a BT engineer can test for the Db levels on your line and if they are high sometimes your line can be tweaked by adjusting the "gain" on your line. Also your line might need balancing this can also help.

You could try contacting BT yourself as I did and explain the problem, I got through to the DSL Team via the normal operator, or possibly the faults team

**If BT wont do this then ask if F9 Plusnet can get these tests done for you.

Ivan
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Is it faulty phone

Hi Cyteck

Yes - this was done a while ago. Like I say - the line has been checked several times now and test show the line is good. I can attest to the fact that when my connection is up - my connection is brill - but then I lose synch.

I posted here to find out if other people with random losing synch problems find that ther routers re-synch if they lift thier telepone.s handset. There is a distinct lack of information about this conditin called "High Open" in the UK - see my first post.

Anyway thanks cyteck - I am going to try another phone. F( keep warning me that BT will chage me gig time if they come out and don't find a fault. As this is intermittent - the chances of them finding the fault is pretty small. I think it sucks that a customer can be charged by a company for failing to find a fault with thier own equipment.

Cheers
Ven
N/A

Replying

Hi Ven

Quote
As this is intermittent - the chances of them finding the fault is pretty small. I think it sucks that a customer can be charged by a company for failing to find a fault with thier own equipment.


Yep!! Thats BT all the way for you, yep!! it sucks big time I agree. So like where is the sheer commitment to customer service then?? answer me that one!! on something like this BT wont go the extra mile to help customers on things like this unless they can make some extra cash out of you of course.

**But there again BT are NOT offering domestic customers a SLA so they dont have to offer anything or very much at all. Humm!!! still think it sucks though!

Ivan Cry
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Help please - is it a faulty phone?

Check your SNR and attenuation levels on your router. My mate who lives down the road has exactly the same problem, but does not have one of those phones. He bought his adsl router to my house (where I get a 40+ SNR level) and he had no problems at all. Took it back to his pad, about 2 mins from me, and terrible connection - SNR 11, attenuation level 80% - I was thinking of rasing a ticket as the bad connection he has is filling up my IRC logs and is costing me hard disk space Smiley

However, he called BT and they gave him all the usual crap about line being ok etc etc etc, This only started happening since BT started their upgades, kinda ironic really. Ill see how he has got on with them when he finishes work later
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? SNR and routers

Hi splink,

Your assuming his router has the facility to measure both SNR and attenuation levels NOT ALL routers have this. The points you made good sound ones but fall down if your router cannot give you this information. So how can someone measure these values if their router doesnt give it,have you considered that angle? But I do agree with you seems strange that these problems have started since the upgrading.

Ivan
N/A

Help please - is it a faulty phone?

Quote
Check your SNR and attenuation levels on your router. My mate who lives down the road has exactly the same problem, but does not have one of those phones.


Hi Splink
Here's the info just grabbed from my router. From what I can see - when I have synch - it's good - but then I don't trully have any deep understanding of what these figures mean. Please tell me what you think?
---------------------------------------------------------------
Line mode: G.dmt Line state Show Time
Latency Type: Fast Line Up Time 00:01:39:11
Line Coding Trellis On Line Up Count 4

Statistics Downstream Upstream
Line Rate 576 Kbps 288 Kbps
Noise Margin 8.5 dB 27.0 dB
Line Attenuation 37.0 dB 24.0 dB
Output Power 17.3 dBm 11.9 dBm
K 19 10
R 0 0
S 1 1
D 1 1
Super Frames 349928 349926
Super Frame Errors 22 0
RS Words 0 0
RS Correctable Errors 0 0
RS Uncorrectable Errors 0 0
HEC Errors 4 0
OCD Errors 0 0
LCD Errors 0 0
ES Errors 0 0
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Actually this is quite interesting. It seems I have lost synch 3 times since I last checked this morning - plus noise margin is now reading 8.5dB downstream whearas it was 30dB this morning.

However - at the moment I don't have a phone connected - my daughter took it at about 6pmand I am waiting for her to bring her's round so we can swap for a while. My router is still conected to main BT socket via a splitter.

Anyway thanks for responding - comments anyone?
Ven
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Noise margins

Actually since I just replied to Splink I have been watching my router display as it refreshes every ten seconds or so, and my noise margin (downstream) is fluctuationg wildly. One minute it's 20dB then next time it refreshes it's 13.5dB - it seems all over the place.

Is this normal? If not - what does it mean?

Ven
orrery
Grafter
Posts: 138
Thanks: 1
Registered: 30-07-2007

Help please - is it a faulty phone?

Quote
So now I am thinking I have got a dodgy phone - it's a BT Duet 200 - I think they were made in 1993.


It could be that making the line go off-hook is fixing the problem, either by tripping a noisy line relay at the exchange or pulling a bit of current - it may be nothing whatsoever to do with the handset.

regards, Ian S
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Help please - is it a faulty phone?

Hi Ian - Yes that's what I think too. Anyway, my daughter has just dropped off her phone for me to try. If the same thing happens then I know it's not the phone at fault and it's definitely a BT problem.

Getting them to isolate and fix it will be another matter - but with all the testing and new equipment I am using - at least they won't be able to blame it on my equpment or installation.

Cheers
Ven


[ Moderator's note by Ian (slevgb): Quote removed. Please don't use all of a post immediately before you reply as a quote. It serves no purpose..]
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Help please - is it a faulty phone?

Yer could be something to do with this. If nothing has changed though, you shouldnt see signal levels going up and down all the time. This seems to be similar to problems I have seen with my friend.

Might be worth checked to see which exchange you are patched into, and find out how far away this exchange is from your house. Then check if any work has been undertaken on this exchange.

From past experience, BT will never admit there is a problem to an end user (having done some work for BT before). You just need to get them to look at it, if changing the phone does not solve it.
N/A

Help please - is it a faulty phone?

Just a thought, how can it be the phones fault seeing as you just said it happened when the phone was with your daughter.

It does sound like a dodgy line, with the quality going up and down I wonder if its a loose connection at the pole or something silly like that.

Have you listened carefully to see if you can hear any crackling on the line other than the ADSL router. Also you shouldnt be hearing the ADSL signal if the microfilter is working properly, thats the whole point of the filter in the first place.

Unfortunately it seems VERY common for microfilters to be faulty, even if you buy several its been known for all of them to be faulty - its just so common.
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Seems it was the phone after all!

Thought I aught to post an update for anyone following this thread.

Well - this is very strange but the problem seems to have largly gone away after I swapped phones. The really wierd thing was - that when I didn't have a phone at all in the equation the problem was worse.

i.e. with my old phone - lots of random disconections.
no phone - just router - disconections even worse.
new phone - disconection problem mostly gone away.

Wierd eh?

Cheers
Ven
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Update

Well the problem came back big time today. Was losing synch all night and all morning. Checked the noise ratio and it was again fluctuating wildly - so assume this was the reason for the dropped connection.

Am still using my daughter's phone as after we swapped my disconection problems seemed to largly go away, so we decided to swap permanantly.

Anyway I just tried lifting the handset for a minute and low and behold - the line resynched and my noise margin was back to it's normal level and has remained so since (over an hour now) after hours of not being able to sustain a connection for more than five minutes.

So - the problem isn't the phone after all - it must be the "High Open" condition described in my earlier post. I just realised too - that I haven't made or recieved a phone call for about 4 days - so am wondering if over a period of time my line quality deteriorates if I don't use the phone.

Ven
David_W
Rising Star
Posts: 2,293
Thanks: 29
Registered: 19-07-2007

Help please - is it a faulty phone?

When I first got DSL I had a similar problem, d/c'ing left, right and centre. I'd phone BT, and their automated system would check my line (which would be making terrible noise) but as soon as the check started the noise would clear. Eventually I managed to talk to someone with all the noise in place. Engineer's came out and every time they did the phone line was as clear as a bell.
Eventually (about the 4th or 5th call out) one engineer did come out and decided to look at the box or something and found my lines were corroded away, they fixed that and its been perfect ever since. You really should just get the engineer to call (they only charge if they dont find a fault) and give them exact details of your problem, then mention the dsl faqs link to them on corroded lines and ask if they can test for that (a noise test wont do anything with the engineer there as they use the phone which fixes the short).