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ADSL Home Questions

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ADSL Home Questions

I'm thinking of upgrading to ADSL at some stage, however I have a few questions I couldn't get answers to on the support section.

Firstly, my parents have an F9 account (F9 Free) and I have an F9 Connect Account. We're on a LAN using 2x 100MB/s NICs. If I upgrade to ADSL, can they also use the ADSL connection? If so, how would I accomplish this? I run Windows 2000 and they run Windows 98SE. I've heard about Internet Connection Sharing but have also heard this can be problematic at best, particularly on non-Win2K/XP machines. Any other ideas? Also, if my parents do NOT use the F9 Dial-In (instead using my ADSL) will they lose their account? They don't want to lose it and want to keep their E-Mail address etc...

Any ideas out there? Also any thoughts on how ADSL is going in general, I've had good experiences with F9 so far since I initially signed with them in Feb '90. Anything I should know RE: Home ADSL (not home surf).

Cheers.
11 REPLIES
Pardip
Newbie
Posts: 6
Registered: 06-08-2007

RE: ADSL Home Questions

What ever you do not acquire the service from this compnay. I have had a ADSL service since Feb 2002 it has been for more than month. Blamed on BT as usual. BT has terminated my service on 27 May 2002 upon and request of Force 9. I paid them 12 months in advance. this is type of service you will get from Force. I was told 01/Jun that BT will restore the service well I would'nt be writing this email if that had happen. They have no support.

The best company is UUNet DialPipex.


> I'm thinking of upgrading to ADSL at some stage, however I have a few questions I couldn't get answers to on the support section.
>
> Firstly, my parents have an F9 account (F9 Free) and I have an F9 Connect Account. We're on a LAN using 2x 100MB/s NICs. If I upgrade to ADSL, can they also use the ADSL connection? If so, how would I accomplish this? I run Windows 2000 and they run Windows 98SE. I've heard about Internet Connection Sharing but have also heard this can be problematic at best, particularly on non-Win2K/XP machines. Any other ideas? Also, if my parents do NOT use the F9 Dial-In (instead using my ADSL) will they lose their account? They don't want to lose it and want to keep their E-Mail address etc...
>
> Any ideas out there? Also any thoughts on how ADSL is going in general, I've had good experiences with F9 so far since I initially signed with them in Feb '90. Anything I should know RE: Home ADSL (not home surf).
>
> Cheers.

N/A

RE: ADSL Home Questions

> Firstly, my parents have an F9 account (F9 Free) and I have an F9 Connect Account. We're on a LAN using 2x 100MB/s NICs. If I upgrade to ADSL, can they also use the ADSL connection?

1. Yes they can.
2. Yes, you should use the option on the Force9 portal to upgrade your account - this means you will retain your present account name, etc.

> If so, how would I accomplish this? I run Windows 2000 and they run Windows 98SE. I've heard about Internet Connection Sharing but have also heard this can be problematic at best, particularly on non-Win2K/XP machines. Any other ideas?

Yes. I'd say forget Microsoft's Internet Connection Sharing, and instead opt for an ADSL router (the hardware guide on http://www.adslguide.org.uk provides reviews of several models). Many of these are now only slightly more expense than USB ADSL modems, or PCI internal ADSL modems, and the routers offer many advantages for the sort of configuration you have (eg with ICS whichever computer is providing the ICS service would be required to be running if the other computer is to have Internet access; with a router you can stop and start the computers independently without affecting the Internet access of the other).

> Also, if my parents do NOT use the F9 Dial-In (instead using my ADSL) will they lose their account? They don't want to lose it and want to keep their E-Mail address etc...

Not sure about this, as I don't know what are the requirements for the F9 Free account - there might be a minimum connect time requirement. I suggest you raise this as a question to Force9 on the "Contact Us" system.
>
> Any ideas out there? Also any thoughts on how ADSL is going in general, I've had good experiences with F9 so far since I initially signed with them in Feb '90. Anything I should know RE: Home ADSL (not home surf).

Although, as you'll see from the other chap who's replied to your posting, some people have had problems with ADSL, but my belief is that most get on OK. You may experience an initial few days of struggle getting the service working (with a "wires only" connection it's your responsibility to select the equipment, install it, configure it, and maintain it; you may find there's a "learning curve" with this. I'd say that's another good reason for buying a router rather than a USB or PCI modem). However, once you've got the thing working, I think you'll find it's a reliable service, and you'll wonder how you ever managed before.

Disregard the other chap's comments about Pipex, and stick with the ISP you know (I doubt if he knows Pipex himself, if he has Force9 ADSL!). If you look on the uk.telecoms.broadband newsgroup, you'll see that Pipex has problems of its own, and some people are even beginning to wonder whether it's financially viable - questions about its association with WorldCom in the US which apparently has $9B debt, and is yet another company whose senior executives have been caught up in accounting irregularities.
N/A

RE: ADSL Home Questions

> > Firstly, my parents have an F9 account (F9 Free) and I have an F9 Connect Account. We're on a LAN using 2x 100MB/s NICs. If I upgrade to ADSL, can they also use the ADSL connection?
>
> 1. Yes they can.
> 2. Yes, you should use the option on the Force9 portal to upgrade your account - this means you will retain your present account name, etc.
>
Cool on both counts, although I worked out that they could share the link if I used an ADSL Modem and a Software Proxy Server, leaving my machine on all the time is no real problem.

> > If so, how would I accomplish this? I run Windows 2000 and they run Windows 98SE. I've heard about Internet Connection Sharing but have also heard this can be problematic at best, particularly on non-Win2K/XP machines. Any other ideas?
>
> Yes. I'd say forget Microsoft's Internet Connection Sharing, and instead opt for an ADSL router (the hardware guide on http://www.adslguide.org.uk provides reviews of several models). Many of these are now only slightly more expense than USB ADSL modems, or PCI internal ADSL modems, and the routers offer many advantages for the sort of configuration you have (eg with ICS whichever computer is providing the ICS service would be required to be running if the other computer is to have Internet access; with a router you can stop and start the computers independently without affecting the Internet access of the other).
>

The router does sound a nicer option in the long run, but I don't even know if they will WANT to share the ADSL. Money is tight and I can only do ADSL really if they want to share it, it's a pain but I can't do it any other way to be honest, which is why I was thinking ADSL Modem and Proxy rather than a router. But like you said, you can use the machines independantly with a router.

> > Also, if my parents do NOT use the F9 Dial-In (instead using my ADSL) will they lose their account? They don't want to lose it and want to keep their E-Mail address etc...
>
> Not sure about this, as I don't know what are the requirements for the F9 Free account - there might be a minimum connect time requirement. I suggest you raise this as a question to Force9 on the "Contact Us" system.

Good point, I'd have thought there was no such requirement though, only that if you don't use the account (Dial-In) they terminate it, am not sure though so will check.

> >
> > Any ideas out there? Also any thoughts on how ADSL is going in general, I've had good experiences with F9 so far since I initially signed with them in Feb '90. Anything I should know RE: Home ADSL (not home surf).
>
> Although, as you'll see from the other chap who's replied to your posting, some people have had problems with ADSL, but my belief is that most get on OK. You may experience an initial few days of struggle getting the service working (with a "wires only" connection it's your responsibility to select the equipment, install it, configure it, and maintain it; you may find there's a "learning curve" with this. I'd say that's another good reason for buying a router rather than a USB or PCI modem). However, once you've got the thing working, I think you'll find it's a reliable service, and you'll wonder how you ever managed before.
>

Well we've only JUST got the ability to have broadband ADSL in our area, have been waiting for a long time to get off this ole' 56K onto something faster. Problems are expected, I work in the I.T biz (support as it happens) so with new bits 'n' pieces you expect a certain degree of problems. I've got no problem with that, I'm reasonably competent to configure a router, sure it's a learning curve, one I'll enjoy doing though, if I get the chance.

> Disregard the other chap's comments about Pipex, and stick with the ISP you know (I doubt if he knows Pipex himself, if he has Force9 ADSL!). If you look on the uk.telecoms.broadband newsgroup, you'll see that Pipex has problems of its own, and some people are even beginning to wonder whether it's financially viable - questions about its association with WorldCom in the US which apparently has $9B debt, and is yet another company whose senior executives have been caught up in accounting irregularities.
>
I used to be on BTInternet, their service wasn't too good so I went back to F9 (I kept my account with them open anyway) and upgraded it to Connect Standard. Never looked back. A great majority of the time I've not had trouble. The only times I do is small DNS outages or my modem being a pain, most likely not to do with F9. I just gotta convince the parents to pay halves on ADSL. However if I go Self install it will be cheaper but when it says 'self install' I assume that the engineer comes round, fits the ADSL and just leaves you with the cables needed to plug into your router/ADSL Modem, so you don't have to go making up cables or anything like it.

The router however, how does that work? Does it connect to a computer and function from it's NIC or does it need a hub or something? We have just 2 PC's and a 'crossover' cable. To recable would be a REAL pain in the behind. The computers are in opposite ends of the house. Any thoughts?
N/A

RE: ADSL Home Questions

> > Firstly, my parents have an F9 account (F9 Free) and I have an F9 Connect Account. We're on a LAN using 2x 100MB/s NICs. If I upgrade to ADSL, can they also use the ADSL connection?
>
> 1. Yes they can.
> 2. Yes, you should use the option on the Force9 portal to upgrade your account - this means you will retain your present account name, etc.
>
> > If so, how would I accomplish this? I run Windows 2000 and they run Windows 98SE. I've heard about Internet Connection Sharing but have also heard this can be problematic at best, particularly on non-Win2K/XP machines. Any other ideas?
>
> Yes. I'd say forget Microsoft's Internet Connection Sharing, and instead opt for an ADSL router (the hardware guide on http://www.adslguide.org.uk provides reviews of several models). Many of these are now only slightly more expense than USB ADSL modems, or PCI internal ADSL modems, and the routers offer many advantages for the sort of configuration you have (eg with ICS whichever computer is providing the ICS service would be required to be running if the other computer is to have Internet access; with a router you can stop and start the computers independently without affecting the Internet access of the other).
>
> > Also, if my parents do NOT use the F9 Dial-In (instead using my ADSL) will they lose their account? They don't want to lose it and want to keep their E-Mail address etc...
>
> Not sure about this, as I don't know what are the requirements for the F9 Free account - there might be a minimum connect time requirement. I suggest you raise this as a question to Force9 on the "Contact Us" system.
> >
> > Any ideas out there? Also any thoughts on how ADSL is going in general, I've had good experiences with F9 so far since I initially signed with them in Feb '90. Anything I should know RE: Home ADSL (not home surf).
>
> Although, as you'll see from the other chap who's replied to your posting, some people have had problems with ADSL, but my belief is that most get on OK. You may experience an initial few days of struggle getting the service working (with a "wires only" connection it's your responsibility to select the equipment, install it, configure it, and maintain it; you may find there's a "learning curve" with this. I'd say that's another good reason for buying a router rather than a USB or PCI modem). However, once you've got the thing working, I think you'll find it's a reliable service, and you'll wonder how you ever managed before.
>
> Disregard the other chap's comments about Pipex, and stick with the ISP you know (I doubt if he knows Pipex himself, if he has Force9 ADSL!). If you look on the uk.telecoms.broadband newsgroup, you'll see that Pipex has problems of its own, and some people are even beginning to wonder whether it's financially viable - questions about its association with WorldCom in the US which apparently has $9B debt, and is yet another company whose senior executives have been caught up in accounting irregularities.
>

I just looked at ADSL Home in more detail, without the self-install. Is the activation fee correct? Nearly £250?!? Seems like you pay for the modem/router too, yet you don't get to keep it. I could be wrong and it could be a misprint, I hope it is. I've been looking at routers because there's a possibility that I may put our small home LAN on the Net. Can I use a router with HOME SELF INSTALL? If so, what one(s) would you people recommend? I'd like one that has firewalling capabilities if possible. I don't want to have to rely on seperate firewalls for both machines, like it done on the Router end of things. Any ideas?
N/A

RE: ADSL Home Questions


> However if I go Self install it will be cheaper but when it says 'self install' I assume that the engineer comes round, fits the ADSL and just leaves you with the cables needed to plug into your router/ADSL Modem, so you don't have to go making up cables or anything like it.

With the "Self Install" (ie "Wires Only") option no engineer comes to your house - the activation is done at your local BT exchange. However, (unlike on the "engineer installed" service) you do have to use "microfilters" (also called "splitters") on your existing telephone socket(s) to filter out the high frequencies used by ADSL to stop them interfering with conventional equipment (phones, normal modems, fax machines, TV set top boxes, etc). The microfilters provide two sockets: one for conventional equipment, one for the ADSL equipment. In effect, wherever you have conventional equipment entering a phone socket, you will need to use a microfilter. I believe the Wires Only activation currently costs £50 + VAT, and that's an up-front cost, although Force9 does have a service offering which allows you to spread this across your first year.

The router / modem will come with something very similar to a standard modem cable for connection to the ADSL side of the microfilter (ie it's a cable with an RJ-11 plug at each end). A few models use a cable with an RJ-11 at one end and a standard BT plug at the other (in other words, exactly the same as you might get with a normal modem)

>
> The router however, how does that work? Does it connect to a computer and function from it's NIC or does it need a hub or something? We have just 2 PC's and a 'crossover' cable. To recable would be a REAL pain in the behind. The computers are in opposite ends of the house. Any thoughts?
>

ADSL routers provide an ADSL modem (which connects to the ADSL-side of a microfilter) and either a single LAN port or a small hub/switch, typically with 4 ports, all built into a single box; thus, it has "two sides" - an ADSL "WAN" side, and a "LAN" side. In your case, a router with a built-in 4-port switch would be the best solution. Your existing cabling would be a bit of a problem, because it's a crossover cable and normally you connect from the PC's LAN card to the router's hub using a straight-through cable. Two ways round this without having to re-wire: some routers have an "upload" port (or a switch on one of the ports) which would enable a crossover cable to be used instead of a straight-through one; alternatively, buy another short length of crossover cable and an RJ-45 "joiner" which will give you the equivalent of a straight-through cable.

Some models you might consider:

ASUS AAM6000BI (4-port switch, one of which can be in "uplink" mode)
Conexant AMX-CA64E (also 4-port; not sure about the "uplink" capability)

Both of these are relatively low-priced and (very) popular models which are not that much more expensive than the USB ADSL modems. See http://www.adslguide.org.uk/hardware/reviews/default.asp for reviews of these and other models.

N/A

RE: ADSL Home Questions

> I just looked at ADSL Home in more detail, without the self-install. Is the activation fee correct? Nearly £250?!? Seems like you pay for the modem/router too, yet you don't get to keep it. I could be wrong and it could be a misprint, I hope it is. I've been looking at routers because there's a possibility that I may put our small home LAN on the Net. Can I use a router with HOME SELF INSTALL? If so, what one(s) would you people recommend? I'd like one that has firewalling capabilities if possible. I don't want to have to rely on seperate firewalls for both machines, like it done on the Router end of things. Any ideas?
>

I suggested a couple of routers you might investigate in my response to your earlier post. (Scroll up to take a look - it's been placed between your two posts even though it's later than both, so you might miss it if you aren't looking for it!)

Yes, you can use a router with the self install option - that option gives you complete control over what equipment you use (providing it's compatible with the basic service of course!). Also, using the hub (or switch, whichever it happens to be on any particular router - a switch is preferable, by the way) on a router would in no way hinder your ability to communicate between your two machines.

Although the router option does tend to be more expensive than the USB modem or internal PCI modem options, there are other advantages, apart from those previously mentioned in connection with running multiple PCs on a network. For example, you avoid all the issues relating to installing drivers on the PC which hosts the modem; there is absolutely no additional CPU loading on your PC; there is no power drain on your PC. If you look on the uk.telecom.broadband newsgroup, you will see a peppering of these problems; the router option gives you an easy life. The problems of the router, insofar as they exist, are normally down to a lack of understanding of TCP/IP networking and routing, which are inherently fixable, and advice is freely available on the net. If you opt for a USB modem and then discover your motherboard simply can't supply enough power to it, you're pretty much stuffed, or will have to buy a powered USB hub.

If cost is a big consideration, I see Solwise (www.solwise.co.uk) is doing a trade-in on some of its earlier routers, which means they have some of these which they're selling at reduced price.
N/A

RE: ADSL Home Questions

> ASUS AAM6000BI (4-port switch, one of which can be in "uplink" mode)
> Conexant AMX-CA64E (also 4-port; not sure about the "uplink" capability)
>
I've just seen a comment to the effect that the Conexant router autosenses the "crossoveredness" of the cable, so you don't have to worry about whether to use a crossover or a straight-through cable - just plug whichever you have straight into the router, and it will sort it out.
N/A

RE: ADSL Home Questions

> > Disregard the other chap's comments about Pipex, and stick with the ISP you know (I doubt if he knows Pipex himself, if he has Force9 ADSL!). If you look on the uk.telecoms.broadband newsgroup, you'll see that Pipex has problems of its own, and some people are even beginning to wonder whether it's financially viable - questions about its association with WorldCom in the US which apparently has $9B debt, and is yet another company whose senior executives have been caught up in accounting irregularities.
> >
Well, today's news about WorldCom paints an even more bleak picture - a major fraud in the accounts, and $30B debt. Tell us, please, that Force9 / PlusNet has no involvement with WorldCom...
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RE: ADSL Home Questions

OK,

You can share an internet connection with internet connection sharing or a 3rd party product. I use all-aboard which you can download at www.tucows.com

I find this to be very stable.

If you are going for the cheap option their are a number of ADSL pci cards, but if you can spare a few extra pounds, there are a number of nice sub £100 routers such as the connexant mentioned. Why not visit http://www.adslguide.org.uk, which will give you some good reviews on ADSL devices.

Finally, we do not deal with world.com.

Kind Regards

Kevin
--
--
| Kevin Revill ............... Unmetered & ADSL solutions
| Force9 Customer Support ........... for Home & Business
| PlusNet Technologies Ltd. ....... @ http://www.plus.net
+ ----- My Referrals - It pays to recommend PlusNet -----
N/A

RE: ADSL Home Questions

> OK,
>
> You can share an internet connection with internet connection sharing or a 3rd party product. I use all-aboard which you can download at www.tucows.com
>
> I find this to be very stable.
>
> If you are going for the cheap option their are a number of ADSL pci cards, but if you can spare a few extra pounds, there are a number of nice sub £100 routers such as the connexant mentioned. Why not visit http://www.adslguide.org.uk, which will give you some good reviews on ADSL devices.
>
> Finally, we do not deal with world.com.
>
> Kind Regards
>
> Kevin
>
> --
> --
> | Kevin Revill ............... Unmetered & ADSL solutions
> | Force9 Customer Support ........... for Home & Business
> | PlusNet Technologies Ltd. ....... @ http://www.plus.net
> + ----- My Referrals - It pays to recommend PlusNet -----

On one part of the F9 site it says ADSL line activation will take 7-10 working days, yet on another part it says just 7-10 days. Which is correct or are they being optimistic? It's the 9th working day now and I have not heard anything from BT. Any ideas?
N/A

RE: ADSL Home Questions

Quote
On one part of the F9 site it says ADSL line activation will take 7-10 working days, yet on another part it says just 7-10 days. Which is correct or are they being optimistic? It's the 9th working day now and I have not heard anything from BT. Any ideas?

Mine took two weeks (you can call that 10 working days, or fourteen days elapsed, whichever you prefer) back in February. And then I had a couple of days getting it to actually work (the wrong user-name details were on the website at that time, but have now been corrected) after which it's all been plain sailing. The waiting's the worst bit!