Plusnet Business Option 3 - Apauling Customer Service - Volume II

[#1]

See the thread Plusnet Business Option 3 - Apauling Customer Service for past Plusnet Support woes.
This afternoon I started getting calls from remote workers to say they they kept being disconnected from VPN and when it was working it was painfully slow.
On doing some digging it appeared that traffic destined for our main office connection just wasnt making it here (and was getting lost in Plusnet's network), Doing some further digging revealed that this was not only the case with out office connection, but several connections that we have with plusnet.  Traceroutes of these connections are below, see if you can spot the similarity.  I have blocked out some details for obvious reasons.
TraceRoute from Network-Tools.com to 81.174.xx.xx [pxxxxxxs.plus.com]
Hop (ms) (ms) (ms)     IP Address Host name
1   0   0   0     8.9.232.73 xe-5-3-0.edge3.dallas1.level3.net 
2   11   0   0     4.69.145.62 vlan60.csw1.dallas1.level3.net 
3   0   0   0     4.69.151.134 ae-63-63.ebr3.dallas1.level3.net 
4   20   20   20     4.69.134.22 ae-7-7.ebr3.atlanta2.level3.net 
5   23   25   24     4.69.148.242 ae-63-63.ebr1.atlanta2.level3.net 
6   32   39   32     4.69.148.106 ae-6-6.ebr1.washington12.level3.net 
7   36   31   43     4.69.143.214 ae-1-100.ebr2.washington12.level3.net 
8   35   37   35     4.69.148.49   - 
9   104   104   104     4.69.137.65 ae-41-41.ebr2.london1.level3.net 
10   104   112   105     4.69.153.134 ae-57-222.csw2.london1.level3.net 
11   107   105   114     4.69.139.102 ae-25-52.car5.london1.level3.net 
12   104   104   104     217.163.45.182   - 
13   106   106   106     212.159.1.17 te-9-1.ptw-gw01.plus.net 
14   105   106   105     84.93.248.5 link3-central10.ptw-ag01.plus.net 
15   Timed out   Timed out   Timed out       - 
16   Timed out   Timed out   Timed out       - 
17   Timed out   Timed out   Timed out       - 
18   Timed out   Timed out   Timed out       - 
Trace aborted.
TraceRoute from Network-Tools.com to 80.229.xx.xx [dxxxx1.plus.com]
Hop (ms) (ms) (ms)     IP Address Host name
1   0   0   0     8.9.232.73 xe-5-3-0.edge3.dallas1.level3.net 
2   10   0   0     4.69.145.126 vlan70.csw2.dallas1.level3.net 
3   0   1   0     4.69.151.146 ae-73-73.ebr3.dallas1.level3.net 
4   20   20   20     4.69.134.22 ae-7-7.ebr3.atlanta2.level3.net 
5   33   33   33     4.69.132.86 ae-2-2.ebr1.washington1.level3.net 
6   38   33   41     4.69.134.134 ae-71-71.csw2.washington1.level3.net 
7   33   33   33     4.69.134.149 ae-72-72.ebr2.washington1.level3.net 
8   112   115   112     4.69.137.49 ae-41-41.ebr2.paris1.level3.net 
9   113   112   112     4.69.143.129 ae-24-24.ebr1.paris1.level3.net 
10   117   117   117     4.69.141.85 ae-1-3.edge3.london2.level3.net 
11   118   118   119     212.187.201.214 plusnet-tec.edge3.london2.level3.net 
12   110   110   110     195.166.129.0 ae1.ptw-cr01.plus.net 
13   111   111   111     212.159.1.29 te-4-2.ptn-gw01.plus.net 
14   112   116   111     84.93.248.149 link11-central10.ptn-ag01.plus.net 
15   Timed out   Timed out   Timed out       - 
16   Timed out   Timed out   Timed out       - 
17   Timed out   Timed out   Timed out       - 
18   Timed out   Timed out   Timed out       - 
Trace aborted.
TraceRoute from Network-Tools.com to 80.229.xx.xx [rxxxxxx.plus.com]
Hop (ms) (ms) (ms)     IP Address Host name
1   0   0   0     8.9.232.73 xe-5-3-0.edge3.dallas1.level3.net 
2   5   0   0     4.69.145.254 vlan90.csw4.dallas1.level3.net 
3   0   0   0     4.69.151.170 ae-93-93.ebr3.dallas1.level3.net 
4   20   20   20     4.69.134.22 ae-7-7.ebr3.atlanta2.level3.net 
5   33   34   33     4.69.132.86 ae-2-2.ebr1.washington1.level3.net 
6   33   41   33     4.69.134.142 ae-91-91.csw4.washington1.level3.net 
7   33   35   34     4.69.134.157 ae-92-92.ebr2.washington1.level3.net 
8   114   114   114     4.69.137.49 ae-41-41.ebr2.paris1.level3.net 
9   113   112   113     4.69.143.125 ae-23-23.ebr1.paris1.level3.net 
10   119   119   119     4.69.141.85 ae-1-3.edge3.london2.level3.net 
11   119   119   119     212.187.201.214 plusnet-tec.edge3.london2.level3.net 
12   112   112   113     195.166.129.0 ae1.ptw-cr01.plus.net 
13   112   113   112     212.159.1.33 te-9-2.ptn-gw01.plus.net 
14   113   117   114     84.93.248.205 link7-central10.ptn-ag03.plus.net 
15   Timed out   Timed out   Timed out       - 
16   Timed out   Timed out   Timed out       - 
17   Timed out   Timed out   Timed out       - 
18   Timed out   Timed out   Timed out       - 
Trace aborted.
TraceRoute from Network-Tools.com to 84.92.xx.xx [cxxxx.plus.com]
Hop (ms) (ms) (ms)     IP Address Host name
1   0   0   0     8.9.232.73 xe-5-3-0.edge3.dallas1.level3.net 
2   2   0   0     4.69.145.62 vlan60.csw1.dallas1.level3.net 
3   0   0   0     4.69.151.134 ae-63-63.ebr3.dallas1.level3.net 
4   22   20   20     4.69.134.22 ae-7-7.ebr3.atlanta2.level3.net 
5   30   24   25     4.69.148.242 ae-63-63.ebr1.atlanta2.level3.net 
6   32   40   32     4.69.148.106 ae-6-6.ebr1.washington12.level3.net 
7   32   31   38     4.69.143.214 ae-1-100.ebr2.washington12.level3.net 
8   35   35   35     4.69.148.49   - 
9   104   106   104     4.69.137.73 ae-43-43.ebr2.london1.level3.net 
10   112   104   104     4.69.153.138 ae-58-223.csw2.london1.level3.net 
11   104   104   104     4.69.139.102 ae-25-52.car5.london1.level3.net 
12   104   110   104     217.163.45.182   - 
13   113   113   112     212.159.1.17 te-9-1.ptw-gw01.plus.net 
14   115   113   113     84.93.248.49 link9-central10.ptw-ag02.plus.net 
15   Timed out   Timed out   Timed out       - 
16   Timed out   Timed out   Timed out       - 
17   Timed out   Timed out   Timed out       - 
18   Timed out   Timed out   Timed out       - 
Trace aborted
Now because of the past problems we have had with this Plusnet account, we had previously been upgraded to enhanced care on the first line I was experiencing problems with, so I thought it should be a simple case of calling Plusnet and reporting the fault and everything would be back to normal quite quickly..... WRONG!!!
On calling Plusnet support and giving them my details, they have managed to completley disregard the traceroute information I gave to the support agent and the fact that I had no Inbound data at all, but they did some tests that have told them that the line keeps dropping (the same fault as in the past) and wanted me to do the swap routers etc etc etc scenario again, and have escilated the fault to BT openreach for repair.
They have missed the point that the line dropping is only a minor inconvenience, and that the fault I really want fixed is the NO INWARD BOUND DATA.
It would also appear that the enhanced care only applies to issues in the BT openreach domain, and not those internal to Plusnet's Network. Apparently the network team goes home at about 5:30 and wont be back until 8:30 tomorrow, the support agent(s) I have spoken to are unable to tell me if there is any priority at all for "enhanced care" customers within Plusnet other than the first response within an hour.
First response within the hour in this case means - We will tell you within an hour that we are closed until tomorrow, and your ticket is waiting for somebody to pick up. But in the meantime we will arrange for an Openreach engineer for a seperate fault that is only minor in comparrison to the one you have reported.
Basically it boils down to;
Plusnet either doesnt give a xxxx for it's Business Customers, doesn't understand what business customers need or is incapable of listening to it's customers.
"Enhanced Care" don't waste your money, spend it on a second ADSL line with somebody like TalkTalk Business
Come on PlusNet, Get a grip of yourself. There are businesses out there that need a decent and reliable connection, and are prepared to pay for it. PlusNet isn't exactly the cheapest ISP in the world. If you have joined the rest of the industury in the race to the bottom, fine but this needs to be reflected in your pricing and we will all know where we stand. If you want to continue to charge a higher price than most of the industury, your going to have to get back to doing something that justifies that.

[#2]

Hi radiohafren,
The information you have been provided with, that your connection is dropping is accurate. Whilst I appreciate you want the lack of inbound data fixing, this actually a symptom of the dropping connection.
As with any fault, we take the symptoms into account and work to resolve the root cause.
Without looking at your account, the details you have supplied in this forum post actually back up the advice you have been supplied that the connection is dropping.
First off, the traces you have supplied do not show any data loss in the Plusnet network. Looking at the first trace as an example, ops 1 through 11 are external to the Plusnet network and cannot control this portion. Hops 12 & 13 show the Plusnet network border and core network and both respond. Hop 14 is our DSL gateway and is our network border before reaching your equipment and this is responding as well.
Hop 15 should be a response from your router. Looking at your account history and some other details, it would appear you have pings disabled, which is why you cannot see a reply from your equipment. I would recommend updating your router settings so that it responds to pings to give you a clearer picture.
When you look at the traceroutes in order, you will see you have been connected to our gateways called PTW-AG01, PTN-AG01, PTN-AG03, PTW-AG02.
We operate a total of 16 of these. 8 are marked PCL (City-Lifeline in London), 4 PTN (Telehouse North London), 4 PTW (Telehouse West London).
The gateway showing in that hop will not change unless your connection drops. When your router authenticates, it builds a tunneled connection to a designated gateway (selected randomly from the list of gateways marked active). Whilst that tunnel remains up, this gateway will not change. This tunnel will only drop if your connection drops, which as you acknowledge, is the advise we have supplied to you.
I would be happy to help further and also support any claims were you feel it is internal to the Plusnet network. However, I will need further information showing how you have established this if possible.
Right now, the information supplied is simply a symptom of the drops. The tests we have done on your line (and the very reason we raise a fault to BT), also confirm the line is dropping.

[#3]

P Richardson, you have again missed the point and have made the same mistake your support agents have made by not listening and not reading the information supplied fully before answering.
Firstly, I have again double checked and my routers are configured to respond to pings from the WAN interface.
Secondly the traces below are to [b]THREE seperate Plusnet Lines[/b], does this mean there is a fault on all three? or that there is a common link somewhere?
On all three lines the routers are in SYNC, have a PPP session, and can browse the internet, but cannot be seen from the outside world (VPN dial in) and hence the traceroutes I have provided.
I agree that there is also likley to be a line fault, one ONE of these lines but not all three, the second and third line are as fast as they should be, stable and have been 100% reliable, other than the inability to pass inbound traffic yesterday afternoon / evening.
The common link here is that Plusnet is the ISP and that all three are old pre 21CN connections, the one connection that I have access to that is 21CN enabled, works perfectly.
On a more positive note VPN and therefore Tracert to the above hosts is now working.
Looking forward to the engineer ariving to deal with issue 2. From the information your support agents gave last night the engineer has been asked to do a lift and shift, I can only hope that we dont get moved back onto the pair we where using before (he doesnt have a lot of scope as the multi pair coming into our building is almost full) that was so bad it made line line unusable.

[#4]

Thanks for the update,
I've checked over the original message to see what I may have missed. I don't believe I have missed any points you had raised.
The original message notes that we had asked you to try an alternate router and although it doesn't state you have actually done this, I have taken it's inclusion to suggest you have. There is no mention that you have checked any settings related to pings.
In addition, your latest message states that the traces supplied are for three separate lines. This information was also not communicated.
If you mean to imply something, I strongly suggest you include that information. Otherwise you are leaving either guesswork for others, or they are providing possibly incorrect responses like I did, because they are not privy to the whole picture.
Given what you have further described here, there is a simple test we would like to perform. This would normally mean you are without service during it, but I take from the conversation so far, this will not be a problem given lack of access anyway.
We would like to connect on our test line here, using the account details of one of the problem lines. We can look at the raw flow of data in that test and establish what is and is not happening.
As we have established there are now multiple accounts, I can only see the one associated with your forum account and cannot locate any others by using matching such as postcodes. Can you supply the details of the other accounts as well, so I can provide a more accurate analysis beyond a single account?

[#5]

This information was communicated verbally to your agent's yesterday afternoon and in my initial post. The fact your support agent got hung up on the issues with the line dropping, which it has been doing on and off since May. For your information we are now on Router number 4.
Perhaps you would like to listen to the call where I talked your agent through doing a tracert from your end, before saying I didnt make myself clear! I made myself perfectly clear on my second call yesterday evening after doing some further tests.

Quote

"some further digging revealed that this was not only the case with out office connection, but several connections that we have with plusnet.  Traceroutes of these connections are below, see if you can spot the similarity.  I have blocked out some details for obvious reasons."

If you read the tracert results above properly you would notice that the IP address and hostname of the three connections are DIFFERENT, therefore they couldnt be for the same connection.

[#6]

Quote from: radiohafren

This information was communicated verbally to your agent's yesterday afternoon and in my initial post.

Going by your initial post the Plusnet accounts names are:
pxxxxxxs
dxxxx1
rxxxxxx
cxxxx
I rather suspect that is not right!
If you want Phil to help I suggest you send him a PM with the information he has requested. Alternatively if you posted the number of the ticket number reporting the issue for each account he can find them from that.

[#7]

Jelv,
You are right that these account names are incorrect, they have been edited to hide the full details from public gaze. The full unedited versions had previously been provided to PN over the telephone, and have again done so online.
I have however already PM'd Mr Richardson with the details he asked for.