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Changing my Business phone and FTTC from Talk Talk to Plusnet how would Plusnet deal with my problem

David661
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Registered: ‎12-07-2018

Changing my Business phone and FTTC from Talk Talk to Plusnet how would Plusnet deal with my problem

Hi All

As the title says I am thinking of moving my business line and FTTC service from TT to Plusnet as at the moment TT seem unable/unwilling to fix a problem with FTTC

 

FTTC came to this village in 2015 via a BDUK scheme, as we are some way from the green box (700m aprox) we only see around 40mb download - (I am told the BDUK scheme is seen as working here 'cos we get more than 21 download

Any way all was well till last week when the line from the pole to our house carring our res line went off it was soon fixed the cable was old to the pole and it had broken.

 

But while it was being fixed our business line went on and off a number of times and the next day we found the DLM had I am told "banded us" down to sync at 34998 and now we are lucky to see 32mb on a speed test here are the stats from my Draytek router as of as I write this

 

ATU-R Information                    Type: VDSL2          Hardware: Annex A          Firmware: 05-07-06-0D-01-07          Power Mngt Mode: DSL_G997_PMS_L0          Line State: SHOWTIME          Running Mode: 17A          Vendor ID: b5004946 544e0000         ATU-C Information               Vendor ID: b5004244 434da48c [BDCM]         Line Statistics         Downstream             Upstream                 Actual Rate 34998 Kbps 7079 Kbps Attainable Rate 37420 Kbps 7124 Kbps Path Mode Fast Fast Interleave Depth 1 1 Actual PSD 2. 2 dB 11. 5 dB       Near End                  Far End                    Trellis ON ON Bitswap ON ON ReTx 1   1   SNR Margin 7 dB 6 dB Attenuation 23 dB 27 dB CRC 13 134652 FECS 0 s 233352 s ES 8 s 117187 s SES 0 s 29 s LOSS 0 s 0 s UAS 35 s 204164 s HEC Errors 0 0 RS Corrections 0 0 LOS Failure 0 0 LOF Failure 0 0 LPR Failure 0 0 NCD Failure 0 0 LCD Failure 0 0 NFEC 32 32 RFEC 16 16 LYSMB 16 16

 

Now silly me I thought I could tell TT of the problem and it would be sorted - no it was not I was told there is no banding, we do not slow you down, the fault last week was not on you business line so it will not affect you, you are getting over 21 so there is no fault, our test shows no fault, I asked for the problem to be put to the network dept - no need I have done the tests all is well I was told

 

So my question is this if I was to move my line to Plusnet what if any help would I get to A) solve this problem and B) if I had been a Plusnet customer when the problem started what would Plusnet have done to solve it over and above the nothing that TT have done.

26 REPLIES
Plusnet Help Team
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Re: Changing my Business phone and FTTC from Talk Talk to Plusnet how would Plusnet deal with my ...

Hi @David661,

We won't be able to see what the problem with the line is until you move across to us, but we can give you a Minimum Guaranteed Access Line Speed (or MGALS) during the sign up journey. If your speed falls below this amount at any point we will do everything in our powers to resolve the issue, however if our suppliers confirm that the speeds provided as your MGALS are unachievable then you will be able to leave the contract free of penalty.

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 Alex H
 Plusnet Help Team
David661
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Registered: ‎12-07-2018

Re: Changing my Business phone and FTTC from Talk Talk to Plusnet how would Plusnet deal with my ...

Hi

 

Thanks for your reply so just to be clear If I had a line with you for quite a time that worked well at 40mb then after work was done on another line the line dropped to 32mb if 32mb was above the Guaranteed Access Line Speed then you would not help to solve the problem caused by the work.

 

I guess if the problem was banding of the line caused by the work and you could see that in a test again you would do nothing

 

I am not trying to be difficult just want to be clear what yor response would be

 

BTW I believe my  Guaranteed Access Line Speed is 21mb - good that after all the taxpayers cash was spent putting FTTC in - I used to get 15mb on ADSL2

Plusnet Help Team
Plusnet Help Team
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Re: Changing my Business phone and FTTC from Talk Talk to Plusnet how would Plusnet deal with my ...

Whilst there's a minimum guaranteed access line speed (MGALS) which relates to your contract, we'd go by the estimates of your line when reporting a fault to our suppliers, which is always above the MGALS value.

For example if you can get an estimated speed of 38mbps or above, and you've chosen the basic Unlimited Fibre 38mbps package, your MGALS would be 34mbps but if your router was only in sync at 35mbps then we'd be able to investigate further.

Also we'd analyse the connection as a whole not just based on speeds, for example if your speeds were OK but your connection was dropping out then we'd be able to investigate further based on the drops.

If your line is banded either above or below estimates, we can request our suppliers to remotely reset the line. Assuming there's no obvious cause of the problem, as we'd always look into the underlying issue before submitting a DLM reset.

Hope this helps.

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 Anoush Mortazavi
 Plusnet Help Team
David661
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Registered: ‎12-07-2018

Re: Changing my Business phone and FTTC from Talk Talk to Plusnet how would Plusnet deal with my ...

Hi

 

Many thanks for taking time with my questions

 

I just put my business line number into your website and got

"you can get our superfast Unlimited Business Fibre Broadband, with an estimated download speed of 35 - 47Mb, and an estimated upload speed of 5 - 8Mb."

When you say "download speed" is that on a speedtest website or sync rate at the router?

" 35 - 47Mb" looks about right my line used to be around 40 sync speed before last weeks work

 

Plusnet Help Team
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Re: Changing my Business phone and FTTC from Talk Talk to Plusnet how would Plusnet deal with my ...

No problems @David661

Speed estimates and MGALS both refer to the sync rate. Download & upload speeds (otherwise known as throughput) can be affected by various factors. More info on this can be found Here

That said, unless there's a problem somewhere you should be able to achieve a throughput of almost your sync rate, for example my sync rate at home is about 55mbps and I get about 50mbps on a speedtest though this is also dependent on what you're doing on the web as streaming videos on one device would likely mean the bandwidth for another device is less.

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 Anoush Mortazavi
 Plusnet Help Team
David661
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Re: Changing my Business phone and FTTC from Talk Talk to Plusnet how would Plusnet deal with my ...

Thanks everso for all this info, very helpfull

 

If I am syncing at 34998 then I guess that is just meeting the MGALS

Before the work was done on the other line I often used to see sync higher than my attainable shown on the router 40000+

So If I got this right al line can get banded cos of work on the network and if it is still within speed estimate then it is tough luck

Unless maybe I order a new line and cancel the TT one or maybe the banding would come off if I changed ISP ?Huh

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Re: Changing my Business phone and FTTC from Talk Talk to Plusnet how would Plusnet deal with my ...

You have not shown any evidence that your line is banded, only mentioned that your synch speed has dropped.

Have you done the DSL Checker to see what speeds you should be expecting? You may have to use the address checker if its a TT phone line.

Have you run the BT Wholesale speed test - it should show the max speeds your line is set to, and show if it is banded.

However your attainable speed suggests that is the most your line can support at present. Are you running from the test socket - if not does this make a difference?

Based on what you have said so far, I am not sure any ISP would do different to TT, other that ask you to do a few more internal checks.

David661
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Registered: ‎12-07-2018

Re: Changing my Business phone and FTTC from Talk Talk to Plusnet how would Plusnet deal with my ...

Hi

 

The basic test worked but gave no more info than others

 

The diagnosic test gives

 

" The Performance Tester is currently unable to run a speed test for your broadband connection. Please try again shortly, however if this problem persists, raise the issue with your service provider"

Maybe TT do not support that test

 

I posed my by stats in another forum (kitz) and had this reply

"Indeed, unfortunately the line has been banded presumably due to one or more of the following:
- Multiple resyncs in a short timeframe
- MTBR red threshold has been exceeded
- SNRM variance exceeded a certain threshold within a 24 hour timeframe (I believe this to be 4 dB) *

* I've noticed banding happens, without interleaving, when this occurs. The patent for the ADSLx DLM mentioned an SNRM variance threshold and in that document it was 4 dB. I believe this to be the case for VDSL2/FTTC as well.

I believe TalkTalk Business are part of the remote DLM reset trial, I'm not sure about TalkTalk Retail though."

 

Browni
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Re: Changing my Business phone and FTTC from Talk Talk to Plusnet how would Plusnet deal with my ...

A synch speed of 34998 Kbps is a pretty good indicator of banding Smiley
I must have been really bad in a previous life as this was my 3rd ISP in a row that used lithium.
Now you're stuck with me because my new ISP doesn't run a forum Cheesy
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Re: Changing my Business phone and FTTC from Talk Talk to Plusnet how would Plusnet deal with my ...

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Plusnet Help Team
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Re: Changing my Business phone and FTTC from Talk Talk to Plusnet how would Plusnet deal with my ...

If your line is banded and there’s no apparent reason for it even if your speeds are within your estimates/above MGALS, we’ll be able to submit a request to our suppliers to remotely reset the line as part of the DLM reset trial.

However being a trial there’s no guarantee in it being successful but from experience the ones I’ve asked to be reset have worked, though sometimes have taken about a week to see an improvement so it’s not a quick process.
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 Anoush Mortazavi
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Browni
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Re: Changing my Business phone and FTTC from Talk Talk to Plusnet how would Plusnet deal with my ...

Hi @Gandalf,

Your response seems to contradict what @adamwalker says in this post.

It would be useful to know the criteria so users such as myself don't give out misleading information.

I must have been really bad in a previous life as this was my 3rd ISP in a row that used lithium.
Now you're stuck with me because my new ISP doesn't run a forum Cheesy
David661
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Re: Changing my Business phone and FTTC from Talk Talk to Plusnet how would Plusnet deal with my ...

Hi

 

Now I am confused as to what could be done as well !!

 

and to make thing even more complicated I read ISP's can choose form 3 profiles when a FTTC line is ordered

 

Stability Option MTBR red threshold MTBR green threshold MTBE red threshold MTBE green threshold
Speed 4200 8400 30 300
Standard 8400 16800 60 600
Stable 16800 33600 120 1,200

 

Here are this mornings figures

 

Trellis ON ON
Bitswap ON ON
ReTx 1   1  
SNR Margin 6 dB 6 dB
Attenuation 23 dB 27 dB
CRC 63 134652
FECS 0 s 233369 s
ES 23 s 117187 s
SES 0 s 29 s
LOSS 0 s 0 s
UAS 35 s 204164 s
HEC Errors 0 0
RS Corrections 0 0
LOS Failure 0 0
LOF Failure 0 0
LPR Failure 0 0
NCD Failure 0 0
LCD Failure 0 0
NFEC 32 32
RFEC 16 16
LYSMB 16 16
Plusnet Help Team
Plusnet Help Team
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Re: Changing my Business phone and FTTC from Talk Talk to Plusnet how would Plusnet deal with my ...

Your response seems to contradict what @adamwalker says in this post.

From the brief we were provided earlier this year and from speaking to one of my colleagues in our faults team, the banded speed doesn't need to be below estimates for us to request a remote DLM reset.

 

It would be useful to know the criteria so users such as myself don't give out misleading information.

The criteria is as follows;

  • We need to provide the current banding, and the desired banding. For example, on the 80/20 product, a banding of

    Profile Name

    0.128M-35M Downstream, Error Protection Off - 0.128M-20M Upstream, Error Protection Off

    should be the following:

    Profile Name

    0.128M-80M Downstream, Error Protection Off - 0.128M-20M Upstream, Error Protection Off

  • There needs to be an open fault report with BTwholesale.
  • Either there was a recent broadband or phone fault which is now resolved, or the banding hasn't updated correctly upon completion of a product change i.e. 40/10 to 80/20, or where the line is stable and error free/no apparent reason.

 

and to make thing even more complicated I read ISP's can choose form 3 profiles when a FTTC line is ordered

The stability options we can choose when ordering FTTC are Standard, Stable and Super Stable.

By default, we choose the Standard option. Worth bearing in mind that we process orders through BTwholesale, and I believe Standard is the Openreach equivalent of Speed.

 

In the case of the thread you've linked, whilst the line is banded at:

Profile Name

0.128M-60M Downstream, Error Protection Off - 0.128M-20M Upstream, Error Protection Off

 

 our tests are showing a potential line fault:

Voice Line Test Result

Voice fault suspected - contact Voice CP to progress copper issue

 

Testing the phone line is picking up "Dis One Leg In Network" so I've reported this through to Openreach now for further investigation. I'll head over to the other thread now.

 

Hope this helps.

If this post resolved your issue please click the 'This fixed my problem' button
 Anoush Mortazavi
 Plusnet Help Team