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stability

monkey001
Grafter
Posts: 136
Registered: ‎05-06-2009

Re: stability

Router is plugged into the bt test socket using a filter and one phone line is used off it too which was changed last night.
Today download speed is 1mb lower,upload had dropped to 300kb and my moise margin has gone from average 9db to 15 db.
Still getting big drops in ping.
Very annoyed that they have closed the ticket saying interleaving has been turned on when it was on to start with this is the reply i got.


We have asked our wholesale broadband suppliers to turn interleaving on on your phone line to try and fix your current broadband problem.
Interleaving is a form of error correction that helps to improve the stability of high-speed broadband. One drawback of interleaving is that it can increase ping times, which may cause problems for online gamers.
We think that turning on interleaving may help with your connection problems. Interleaving usually takes 24 hours to turn on, but can take up to 5 days to take effect.
If interleaving solves your problem, please close this Question. If you are still seeing problems with interleaving switched on, please return this Question to us with as much detail about your problem as possible. Thank you for your time and patience.

WWWombat
Grafter
Posts: 1,412
Thanks: 4
Registered: ‎29-01-2009

Re: stability

Well something has happened to the interleaving, so perhaps PN did change something... The downstream depth has changed from 16 (on the stats on the 10th) to 8 (on the 12th).
I'm not sure you'll see anything dramatically different though...
Anyway, here's what I think looking at your 2 reports:
Downstream:
There obviously wasn't a sync inbetween the 2 sets of pictures, so no change in sync speed. However, there was also almost no change in the noise margin, suggesting that the phone wasn't causing interference either.
The stats also show that the line last synchronised 16 hours earlier - presumably at 2AM. When it did so, it either:
1)  Had a new, higher, target SNRM of 15dB, and chose the current sync speed. That suggests the noise levels seen at 2AM were about the same as those at 6PM when you took the stats picture; or
2) Had the same target SNRM (perhaps 9db from previous posts) but also had 6DB more noise than was present in the 6PM pictures.
I suspect it is the first, but either way, we have no idea what caused the resync.
From the other stats, you've got 982 CRC errors over the uptime - equivalent to around 50 per hour. That doesn't sound too massive to me, but it depends on how spread over time they were.
These 982 CRCs look to have happened at 61 different occasions (the 61 "errored seconds"), where 2 occasions were severe (the 2 "severe ES") which probably also maps to 2 resyncs (the 2 "LOS" events).
I'm not an expert at reading these, but they seem to suggest that you have suffered intermittent noise, rather than persistent noise - which is the opposite of what I'd expect if you had OldJim's crosstalk problem (I'm sure oldjim will let me know if I'm wrong on this).
You don't show the pings from the tbbmeter, but I wouldn't expect you to have seen a graph look as bad as the one you showed a couple of days ago.
So if you still got a lot of ping loss that day, then something else is happening.
Upstream:
On the upstream side, you were sync'd at 736, which seems good compared to your reported upload speeds.
Another oddity...
All in all, I'd say the line is still suspect, but intermittently.
You probably want to continue with the fault ticket with PN, doing the various tests they recommend, with the ultimate aim to get a BT engineer out to look at the line.
Unfortunately, there's probably still more to do before getting to that point - and being intermittent means it is likely to take some time to rule various things out - making small changes, and then measuring the effect. Patience will be needed...
To measure, you can carry on using Routerstats, but to show graphs over the course of the day for the RX noise, Sync and CRC values. The ping graph is also good (and have you thought of adding TBB's BQM? This sends pings from the network to your machine, so long as you have a static IP).
What else do you need to rule out?
- By being in the test socket, you will rule out your internal wiring
- By disconnecting your phone from the filter, you rule this out. However, if it is a DECT cordless, you want to move it well away, or power off, even when disconnected
- You probably need to try a different filter, if possible
- PN will want you to try another router. I'm not sure of the process for this, so hopefully someone else will jump in here
- The cable between router & filter will need ruling out too, but may wait until a test router is available.
Checking each thing may take 1,2,3 days to get some confidence about the impact of each change, which is where the patience comes in.
More importantly, each thing you check will need a resync... and too many of those will cause the DLM to set the target SNRM higher - which you don't want to do (although it might have already happened, given your noise figure of 15dB). To avoid this, you don't want to resync more than once per day, which definitely slows progress.
Plusnet Customer
Using FTTC since 2011. Currently on 80/20 Unlimited Fibre Extra.
WWWombat
Grafter
Posts: 1,412
Thanks: 4
Registered: ‎29-01-2009

Re: stability

Doh - forgot to ask. Areyou using a wired or wireless connection to the router?
It is definitely worth doing these tests with a wired connection.
Plusnet Customer
Using FTTC since 2011. Currently on 80/20 Unlimited Fibre Extra.
Gel
Aspiring Champion
Posts: 2,332
Thanks: 299
Fixes: 29
Registered: ‎02-08-2007
monkey001
Grafter
Posts: 136
Registered: ‎05-06-2009

Re: stability

Cheers for the help Wombat Smiley
wired from router i have too lol.
Was one step ahead with the TTB meter but i didn't set it right couple of days ago but this is what i got so far and where you can see it getting worse is when i started to use the pc/ps3 at around 5pm.


Having no joy what so ever on the phone/online fault finder with PN.
RX noise, Sync and CRC values have all stayed the same other than when i decided i had nothing to lose and played with the "set target snr" button could drop my noise margin down to 11db but i reset it back to what it was after.weird thing was even with the increase in the download from playing with the noise margin the ping was still just as bad.
monkey001
Grafter
Posts: 136
Registered: ‎05-06-2009

Re: stability

Still got high noise margin ,low d/l and not had a call back from PN to explain what is going on 😕 getting better ping then i was having though which is a bonus.
jojopillo
Plusnet Alumni (retired)
Plusnet Alumni (retired)
Posts: 9,786
Registered: ‎16-06-2010

Re: stability

Hi monkey001,
They won't call you yet as they have to wait the 5 days for the interleaving to take effect. That time will be up tomorrow so I'll et one of the faults guys to test it again then.
Jojo Smiley
monkey001
Grafter
Posts: 136
Registered: ‎05-06-2009

Re: stability

But i am positive interleaving was on, has been for the past couple of months ping hasn't decreased at all used to get 25ms with interleaving off it's been 42ms since before December.
My post from previous exact same problem as this.
http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,88760.msg753557.html#msg753557
jojopillo
Plusnet Alumni (retired)
Plusnet Alumni (retired)
Posts: 9,786
Registered: ‎16-06-2010

Re: stability

Hi monkey001,
Hmm, ok. I'll ask them to look into that when they're checking it out. I'm sorry I can't do any more for you right now as I'm at home at the moment, but I will get onto it in the morning for you.
Jojo Smiley
monkey001
Grafter
Posts: 136
Registered: ‎05-06-2009

Re: stability

Thank you for replying/helping Smiley
Gel
Aspiring Champion
Posts: 2,332
Thanks: 299
Fixes: 29
Registered: ‎02-08-2007
jojopillo
Plusnet Alumni (retired)
Plusnet Alumni (retired)
Posts: 9,786
Registered: ‎16-06-2010

Re: stability

Quote from: Gel
Router shoudn't be on a filter.

Routers should always be filtered.
jojopillo
Plusnet Alumni (retired)
Plusnet Alumni (retired)
Posts: 9,786
Registered: ‎16-06-2010

Re: stability

HI monkey001,
I've one of the faults guys on this now. I've explained what's been going on with the interleaving. He's now running some tests and will update the ticket as soon as he has some results.
Jojo Smiley
monkey001
Grafter
Posts: 136
Registered: ‎05-06-2009

Re: stability

Right got sent a thompon router (FML) as the last test to calling bt out. Plugged it in got it up and running turns out it giving me speeds of under 0.5mb (see attached) but sync at around 2mb though i'll leave it over night see if it improves.It hasn't getting fed up with trying to use the slow speed so now switched back to my trusty netgear but that is doing the same (see attached router stats) amazingly my noise margin has dropped right down but there is still no improvement in speed.
Rang PN got told "i'll pass this on" yet again (in other word i haven't a clue and the support team aren't back till monday).
Don't know how my speed can be so low yet sync is ok?
At breaking point atm 2 weeks this has been going on but really took a nose dive the last couple of days.
check out noise margin attach is still dropping always had it around 9db.
Could someone tell me how to do the second test on the btspeedtester Smiley
WWWombat
Grafter
Posts: 1,412
Thanks: 4
Registered: ‎29-01-2009

Re: stability

Quote from: monkey001
Right got sent a thompon router (FML) as the last test to calling bt out. Plugged it in got it up and running turns out it giving me speeds of under 0.5mb (see attached) but sync at around 2mb
...
Don't know how my speed can be so low yet sync is ok?

The obvious initial answer would be that BT's DLM has seen a low sync speed at some point, and set a low IP Profile.
However, your screenshot of the BT Speedtester shows that the IP Profile is 1750, so you should be able to get downloads of around 1500-1600 with that.
BUT... it also depends on what PlusNet have as their copy of the speed, and this can be seen as "current line speed" at: https://portal.plus.net/my.html?action=data_transfer_speed
That value can lag behind BT's change somewhat (up to 12 hours), which might explain your low speeds. It can also become stuck, which would explain low speeds for longer than that.
In fact, BT's value comes from 2 places - and can get out of sync - and when it does so, BT stops sending updates to PlusNet too. This makes for a third way that the system can slow you down unexpectedly.
Plusnet Customer
Using FTTC since 2011. Currently on 80/20 Unlimited Fibre Extra.