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some things never change!

Blim
Grafter
Posts: 462
Registered: 06-03-2012

some things never change!

why do i keep getting told my line is on fast path when Its clealry not.
does this look like a line that should be having problems sending packets on a ms scale?
if the problem im seeing in my games was due to packets being corrupt on the scale of milliseconds then Im sure id have a hell of a lot more errors than say 300. the errors would have to be more on the line of millions and its been up for over a day. how many milliseconds in a day? because Im seeing delay on everything not 300ms out of a day. every milliseconds of my connection seem to be out of sync. and befor you tell me its my games. im one of the few that seem to have this problem and cares about it.

Physical Layer Statistics:
 Modem state:                                   up
 Up time (Days hh:mm:ss):                       1 day, 2:05:10
 xDSL Standard:                                 ITU-T G.992.5
 xDSL Annex:                                    Annex A
 Channel Mode:                                  Interleaved
 Number of reset:                               0
 Chipset Vendor info (G.994.1):                 Local          Remote
   Country code:                                B500           B500
   ID:                                          BDCM           IFTN
   Specific:                                    0000           71BE
 System Vendor info (showtime):                 Local          Remote
   Country code:                                0F00           0000
   ID:                                          TMMB           ----
   Specific:                                    3C61           0000
 Bearers generic info                           DS             US
   Payload rate [Kbps]:                         21159          1191
   Attenuation [dB]:                            16.5           8.0
   Margins [dB]:                                3.1            6.5
   Output power [dBm]:                          0.0            12.1
   Number of bearers:                           1
   Bearer 0                                     DS             US
     INP [DMT symbols]:                         0.00           0.00
     Delay [ms]:                                0.09           0.24
     Depth []:                                  1              0.00
     R:                                         0              0
G.997.1 Statistics (Current):
 Failures:
   Line failures                                Near end
     Loss of signal (LOS):                      0
     Loss of frame (LOF):                       0
     Loss of power (LPR):                       0
 Performance monitoring:
   Line PM:                                     Near end
     Error second (ES):                         83
   Channel PM:                                  Near end       Far end
     Bearer 0:
       Code Violation (CV):                     86             0
       FEC:                                     0              0
   ATM data path PM:                            Near end       Far end
     Bearer 0:
       HEC violation count (HEC):               351            N/A
G.997.1 Statistics (last 15 minutes):
 Failures:
   Line failures                                Near end
     Loss of signal (LOS):                      0
     Loss of frame (LOF):                       0
     Loss of power (LPR):                       0
 Performance monitoring:
   Line PM:                                     Near end
     Error second (ES):                         1
   Channel PM:                                  Near end       Far end
     Bearer 0:
       Code Violation (CV):                     86             0
       FEC:                                     0              0
   ATM data path PM:                            Near end       Far end
     Bearer 0:
       HEC violation count (HEC):               351            N/A
G.997.1 Statistics (last 24 hours):
 Failures:
   Line failures                                Near end
     Loss of signal (LOS):                      0
     Loss of frame (LOF):                       0
     Loss of power (LPR):                       0
 Performance monitoring:
   Line PM:                                     Near end
     Error second (ES):                         11
   Channel PM:                                  Near end       Far end
     Bearer 0:
       Code Violation (CV):                     86             0
       FEC:                                     0              0
   ATM data path PM:                            Near end       Far end
     Bearer 0:
       HEC violation count (HEC):               351            N/A

Link Information

Uptime: 1 day, 1:54:46
DSL Type: ITU-T G.992.5
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 1.191 / 21.159
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [MB/GB]: 234,70 / 1,45
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12,1 / 0,0
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 8,0 / 16,5
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 6,6 / 3,1
System Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / ----
Chipset Vendor ID (Local/Remote): BDCM / IFTN
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Link (Remote): -
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 82 / 0
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 0
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 85
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 349
16 REPLIES
Community Veteran
Posts: 38,460
Thanks: 1,027
Fixes: 62
Registered: 15-06-2007

Re: some things never change!

I know that the router is reporting interleaved but the lack of FEC errors would indicate otherwise
Try running a tracert to ntp.plus.net and report back
Community Veteran
Posts: 26,686
Thanks: 910
Fixes: 10
Registered: 10-04-2007

Re: some things never change!

I was about to post almost word for word the same thing!
jelv (a.k.a Spoon Whittler)
   Why I have left Plusnet (warning: long post!)   
Broadband: Andrews & Arnold Home::1 (FTTC 80/20)
Line rental: Pulse 8 Home Line Rental (£13/month)
Mobile: iD mobile (£4/month)
Blim
Grafter
Posts: 462
Registered: 06-03-2012

Re: some things never change!


Tracing route to ntp.plus.net [212.159.13.50]
over a maximum of 30 hops:
  1    70 ms    99 ms    99 ms  dsldevice.lan [192.168.1.254]
  2    15 ms    13 ms    13 ms  lo0-central10.pcl-ag04.plus.net [195.166.128.185]
  3    13 ms    13 ms    12 ms  84.93.249.112.broadband.plus.dyn.plus.net [84.93.249.112]
  4    13 ms    12 ms    13 ms  pte-sw4.plus.net [212.159.1.4]
  5    13 ms    13 ms    13 ms  po2.pcl-gw01.plus.net [195.166.129.41]
  6    14 ms    13 ms    14 ms  vl63.pcl-lb01.plus.net [212.159.2.252]
  7    13 ms    13 ms    13 ms  cdns02.plus.net [212.159.13.50]
Trace complete.
Community Veteran
Posts: 26,686
Thanks: 910
Fixes: 10
Registered: 10-04-2007

Re: some things never change!

Interleaving is definitely off.
jelv (a.k.a Spoon Whittler)
   Why I have left Plusnet (warning: long post!)   
Broadband: Andrews & Arnold Home::1 (FTTC 80/20)
Line rental: Pulse 8 Home Line Rental (£13/month)
Mobile: iD mobile (£4/month)
JamesM
Grafter
Posts: 1,103
Registered: 24-06-2009

Re: some things never change!

I concur, interleaving is off.
x47c
Grafter
Posts: 878
Registered: 14-08-2009

Re: some things never change!

Don't know much about this sort of thing....but the first hop to the LAN/router seems very long
I'd expected around 1ms
Community Veteran
Posts: 26,686
Thanks: 910
Fixes: 10
Registered: 10-04-2007

Re: some things never change!

A high first hop to the router is not uncommon - it's a false result.
jelv (a.k.a Spoon Whittler)
   Why I have left Plusnet (warning: long post!)   
Broadband: Andrews & Arnold Home::1 (FTTC 80/20)
Line rental: Pulse 8 Home Line Rental (£13/month)
Mobile: iD mobile (£4/month)
Community Veteran
Posts: 6,313
Thanks: 86
Fixes: 3
Registered: 08-01-2008

Re: some things never change!

Hi Blim,
The slow response from the router is not too unusual on certain routers, it just means that the router takes a while to respond to the ping request because it is a very low priority, this does not mean it will slow things that are routed through.  The only ping time that matters is the destination.  Tracert will often show long pings on intermediate hops, that's because they're busy routing traffic and only 'bother' responding to the ping when they have time.
You may find this discussion of some interest:
http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/63/33617056-best-ping-times-adsl2-vs-cable.html
[Edit - Additional Info] Some routers report 'Interleaved' with a 'Depth' of 1, this actually means fastpath:
http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/interleaving.htm
Call me 'w23'
At any given moment in the universe many things happen. Coincidence is a matter of how close these events are in space, time and relationship.
Opinions expressed in forum posts are those of the poster, others may have different views.
Blim
Grafter
Posts: 462
Registered: 06-03-2012

Re: some things never change!

why does the modem report  "Channel Mode:        Interleaved" on all modems I own and in telnet stats that seem to be quite reliable?
and tho i dont have any FEC there is "Code Violation (CV):      86             0". should this concern me?

RE walker: I know this already, was someone els who pointed that out but thanks anyway.
Community Veteran
Posts: 26,686
Thanks: 910
Fixes: 10
Registered: 10-04-2007

Re: some things never change!

No idea why the router says what it does but as interleaving adds 20ms or more there's absolutely no way whatsoever interleaving can be on with the tracert showing 13ms.
jelv (a.k.a Spoon Whittler)
   Why I have left Plusnet (warning: long post!)   
Broadband: Andrews & Arnold Home::1 (FTTC 80/20)
Line rental: Pulse 8 Home Line Rental (£13/month)
Mobile: iD mobile (£4/month)
Community Veteran
Posts: 6,313
Thanks: 86
Fixes: 3
Registered: 08-01-2008

Re: some things never change!

Can anyone confirm, please, whether PlusNet can get the interleaving status reliably from the exchange end?
Call me 'w23'
At any given moment in the universe many things happen. Coincidence is a matter of how close these events are in space, time and relationship.
Opinions expressed in forum posts are those of the poster, others may have different views.
JamesM
Grafter
Posts: 1,103
Registered: 24-06-2009

Re: some things never change!

IMO they can't, I went through about 6 weeks of being told Interleaving was off by PN, even though my ping went from 15 to 35 (the same as it was when interleaving was on), I explained this but was assured interleaving was off. I had FEC errors, which I pointed out, again I was assured interleaving was off, even though I knew it wasn't. So if everything is telling PN that interleaving is off and it is on, then it seems we, as consumers have to say it is on by checking our stats.

Blim
Grafter
Posts: 462
Registered: 06-03-2012

Re: some things never change!

Quote from: jelv
No idea why the router says what it does but as interleaving adds 20ms or more there's absolutely no way whatsoever interleaving can be on with the tracert showing 13ms.

really? because Ive had FEC errors witch would indicate according to PN in genral that interleaving was on but yet my ping has never changed from 11-13 on the old modem and 12-13 on the new one jojo request to be sent me.
x47c
Grafter
Posts: 878
Registered: 14-08-2009

Re: some things never change!

It seems from a technical viewpoint that it is theoretically possible to have FEC errors occuring while being on Fast path.
Interleaving is where the data blocks are split up and then re-combined at the router end, the idea being that sudden bursts of noise only mangle parts of the data and not the whole data block. - let's not get into discussing the depth of the interleaving applied on a particular line.
FEC's (Forward error corrections) arise from Reed Solomon error correction routines which introduce check sums into the data stream such that if parts are corrupted it is possible to re-create the correct data block by decoding the checksums sent with it and then working back to what the data should have been.
The two are not necessarily required to go together - though I had always assumed that the designers of the ADSL signalling system decided that they should.  Hence we always assume that the presence of FEC's in the router's statistics indicates interleaving is on.
So it would seem theoretically possible to have either interleaving on/off and FECs operational/not quite independently of each other.
So having FEC's in the 'stats while at the same time having a low ping (ie Fast path) as you are seeing seems quite possible.
It may be there are 3 stages/levels of error correction settings
No FEC, no interleaving,
FEC's, but interleaving still off
FECs AND interleaving
If this is so, we may need to be more cautious in only looking at the presence of FEC's to determine whether interleaving is on or not.
Edit: Grammer/spelling