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"Internet" drops, but DSL doesn't, AND speed slower than normal

snozboz
Rising Star
Posts: 395
Thanks: 5
Fixes: 1
Registered: 27-07-2007

"Internet" drops, but DSL doesn't, AND speed slower than normal

Hello helpful forum people!  Smiley
For several days now, my internet connection has dropped for very brief periods (particularly noticeable when using BBC iPlayer, but also websites occasionally fail to load, then will load fine a minute or so later) and then reestablished itself, on average every few hours.  According to my router, my DSL connection has not dropped, but what it calls my "Internet" has dropped.  During these brief periods without a connection, I am still able to browse to the router's settings, so I don't think it's my network or WiFi.  This problem started around the time I got a replacement MacBook Pro, and I can't remember whether this was before or after the problem started - I'm aware there have been some reported problems with Lion and WiFi, and so have started to use an ethernet cabled connection to eliminate this from the equation.
My new Apple MacBook Pro runs OS X 10.7 and Safari 5.1.  My router is a Plusnet-supplied Thomson Gateway TG585 v8 which they sent me at the beginning of May this year as part of troubleshooting connection problems and speed issues which were eventually resolved (with me ending up on 21CN etc).
I've just gone in to the router settings, told it to "Disconnect", then turned the router power off for 20 seconds, then back on.  I'm using a wired connection, and my computer is the only one in my flat that is connected.  See below for the various stats & figures I've gathered, and below the current ones, I've pasted in what were average readings before this problem started (in brown) so you can see the difference.
Is there anything you can suggest?  Should I do the "remove Master Socket faceplate" thing, and go through the Plusnet Fault process?
Thanks in advance,
Martin


1/8/11 13:07 - wired connection, router powered down then back on
http://www.speedtester.bt.com
Download speedachieved during the test was - 3091 Kbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speeds is 1200-4000 Kbps.
Additional Information:
Your DSL Connection Rate :4664 Kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 443 Kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP Profile for your line is - 4115 Kbps
Upload speed achieved during the test was - 344 Kbps
Additional Information:
Upstream Rate IP profile on your line is - 443 Kbps

Router stats - TG585 v8
Uptime: 0 days, 0:15:01
DSL Type: G.992.3 annex A
Maximum Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 1,008 / 4,748
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 443 / 4,664
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [MB/MB]: 4.74 / 28.92
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12.5 / 18.5
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 30.0 / 49.0
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 22.0 / 12.5
Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / IFTN
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Link (Remote): 0
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 0
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 49 / 16
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 7 / 64
https://portal.plus.net/my.html?action=data_transfer_speed
Estimated line speed:
Not recorded (service activated before we introduced estimates).
Current line speed:
3.5 Mb


31/5/11 14:06 - wireless connection
Router stats - TG585 v8
Uptime: 3 days, 20:49:17
DSL Type: G.992.3 annex A
Maximum Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 1,012 / 5,088
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 444 / 4,728
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [MB/GB]: 134.61 / 2.32
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12.5 / 18.5
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 29.5 / 48.5
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 22.5 / 12.0
Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / IFTN
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 393,212 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Link (Remote): 0
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 393,213 / 0
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 166,910
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 87 / 1,408
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 40 / 2,501
http://www.mybroadbandspeed.co.uk/
3998 kbps (500kB/s) 376 kbps (47kB/s)
https://portal.plus.net/my.html?action=data_transfer_speed
Current line speed:
   4 Mb


32 REPLIES
Plusnet Alumni (retired) orbrey
Plusnet Alumni (retired)
Posts: 10,540
Registered: 18-07-2007

Re: "Internet" drops, but DSL doesn't, AND speed slower than normal

Hi there,
It does look like there have been one or two drops:
<img src="http://ccgi.psmith12.plus.com/visradius/generated/image13122149669736.png" />
Not sure if those tally up with what you're seeing? If so it's probably a fault somewhere (though I'd check nothing's switching on or off around the time the internet goes off as it might be a REIN issue) so yes, I'd say it's worth doing the fault checks.
snozboz
Rising Star
Posts: 395
Thanks: 5
Fixes: 1
Registered: 27-07-2007

Re: "Internet" drops, but DSL doesn't, AND speed slower than normal

Hi Matt.
Thanks for this.  I thought the "Visual Radius" graph you included only shows DSL drops not what my router is reporting as "Internet" drops...?  Anyway, the ones on Saturday 30th and Monday 1st coincide with when I thought I'd properly told my router to disconnect before I powered it down then back on.  Does this mean that I didn't do it right, and the system (DLM??) has seen these as unintended drops rather than user-initiated?  What I did was to click on the "Disconnect" button on the http://192.168.1.254 page - I've tried to attach a PNG image screenshot of what I clicked on, before turning the power off on the router and turning it back on 20 seconds later.
Anyway, I'll get on with taking the Master Socket faceplate off, and going through the fault checker now.
BBFN,
Martin
snozboz
Rising Star
Posts: 395
Thanks: 5
Fixes: 1
Registered: 27-07-2007

Re: "Internet" drops, but DSL doesn't, AND speed slower than normal

Having plugged the router into the test socket (with a new filter) and left the router off for 30 mins, my speed is now back to normal.  However the router is still reporting that the "Internet" is dropping briefly every so often, even though the DSL stays working.  This is what I'd seen before, when I experienced the loss of internet connection - e.g. iPlayer would stop playing, and websites wouldn't load.
Here are my latest stats.  I'm going to start the faults process now. edit: question no. 45102226


1/8/11 20:09 - wired connection, router in test socket with new filter
http://www.speedtester.bt.com/
Download speedachieved during the test was - 3826 Kbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speeds is 1200-4000 Kbps.
Additional Information:
Your DSL Connection Rate :4760 Kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 443 Kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP Profile for your line is - 4199 Kbps
Upload speed achieved during the test was - 321 Kbps
Additional Information:
Upstream Rate IP profile on your line is - 443 Kbps

Router stats - TG585 v8
DSL
Uptime: 0 days, 1:42:27
DSL Type: G.992.3 annex A
Maximum Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 1,004 / 4,752
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 443 / 4,760
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [MB/MB]: 3.87 / 26.32
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12.5 / 18.5
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 30.0 / 49.0
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 22.0 / 12.0
Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / IFTN
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Link (Remote): 0
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 2 / 0
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 0
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 6 / 116
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 4 / 197
"Internet"
Uptime: 0 days, 0:43:13
https://portal.plus.net/my.html?action=data_transfer_speed
Estimated line speed:
Not recorded (service activated before we introduced estimates).
Current line speed:
3.5 Mb


1/8/11 17:42 - disconnected using router settings page, powered down router, removed Master Socket faceplate, plugged in router & one wired telephone with new filter, waited 30 mins

jojopillo
Grafter
Posts: 9,786
Registered: 16-06-2010

Re: "Internet" drops, but DSL doesn't, AND speed slower than normal

HI Martin,
The disconnections you instigated will have shown, but not necessarily have had an effect on the DLM. We can sometimes see very brief drops not show on our logs. Where are you seeing the reported drops from?
Jojo Smiley
snozboz
Rising Star
Posts: 395
Thanks: 5
Fixes: 1
Registered: 27-07-2007

Re: "Internet" drops, but DSL doesn't, AND speed slower than normal

Hi Jojo.
My router shows the separate uptimes for "DSL Connection" and "Internet" when I click on "Broadband Connection" in the menu on the left (at http://192.168.1.254). ; This reveals that the DSL has remained up for much longer than the Internet.
I've also looked at the "Event Logs" under "Thomson Gateway" in the menu on the left.  This shows the PPP link going down then back up.  (BTW there's also a LOT of entries saying "UPnP action 'AddPortMapping'" and "UPnP action 'DeletePortMapping'" from my computer IP - I take it this is normal?)
I hope this is what you wanted to know...?
BBFN,
Martin
Plusnet Alumni (retired) orbrey
Plusnet Alumni (retired)
Posts: 10,540
Registered: 18-07-2007

Re: "Internet" drops, but DSL doesn't, AND speed slower than normal

Hi Martin,
Our radius logs only show when a user connects and disconnects from us. That might be down to loss of sync but we can't tell really - only difference is we get a different message if it was a forced disconnect or if it was a user request.
With regard to the UPnP actions, that's normal - the router opens and closes ports based on requests from applications wanting access to and from various places so you will see those actions happening in the logs.
snozboz
Rising Star
Posts: 395
Thanks: 5
Fixes: 1
Registered: 27-07-2007

Re: "Internet" drops, but DSL doesn't, AND speed slower than normal

Just noticed and experienced another drop - at 17:58.  The Gmail webpage I was using (with a couple of other tabs open) failed to refresh briefly, then resumed.  The router shows with the "Internet" uptime that it has just started, and through the "DSL Connection" uptime that it has been connected for over 21 hours.  And the router's Event Log also shows a PPP link going down then back up.  See below for an excerpt from this log.
This is the first time I'm 100 percent confident that it has happened when I've been using a wired ethernet connection, the router is plugged in to the test socket, and I've checked the router settings immediately.  Hopefully this eliminates some variables?!  Smiley
When this happens again, should I do anything?  Do I need to be making a note of when it happens?  And when it does happen, what other things should I be making a note of?
BBFN,
Martin


(I've x'd out the last digits of the WAN IP)
Aug 2 17:58:28 FIREWALL event (1 of 1): deleted rules
Aug 2 17:58:24 PPP link up (Internet) [212.159.x.x]
Aug 2 17:58:24 GRP Default destination is routed via gateway 212.159.x.x
Aug 2 17:58:24 PPP CHAP Chap receive success : authentication ok
Aug 2 17:58:23 PPP CHAP Receive challenge (rhost = ptn-ag01)
Aug 2 17:58:23 PPP CHAP Receive challenge (rhost = bras-red4.dy)
Aug 2 17:58:21 UPnP action 'DeletePortMapping' from ip=192.168.1.65 (Success)
Aug 2 17:58:14 FIREWALL event (1 of 1): created rules
Aug 2 17:58:12 GRP Default destination is not routed anymore via gateway 212.159.x.x
Aug 2 17:58:12 PPP link down (Internet) [212.159.x.x]

Plusnet Help Team
Plusnet Help Team
Posts: 12,978
Thanks: 140
Fixes: 45
Registered: 27-04-2007

Re: "Internet" drops, but DSL doesn't, AND speed slower than normal

Hi Martin,
I'm going to pick this issue up from here for you.
Don't worry about making a note or informing us of your disconnections as we've got the tools to pro-actively check when that's happening.
After Jojo replied to you I can see that the disconnections have increased quite a lot and to a level where DLM will come into effect. With that in mind I'd really like to eliminate your router a s a cause of the fault. Do you have access to a spare one at all? let me know if not as I can send you a test router.

If this post resolved your issue please click the 'This fixed my problem' button
 Adam Walker
 Plusnet Help Team
snozboz
Rising Star
Posts: 395
Thanks: 5
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Registered: 27-07-2007

Re: "Internet" drops, but DSL doesn't, AND speed slower than normal

Hi Adam.
Thanks for this.
I do have my old THOMSON ST546 router, as I mentioned in the faults process.
I take it that you're aware that I was sent an email this morning to say that interleaving was being turned on to try to resolve the fault...?  I've quoted the email below.
It seems a bit odd to try 2 different things at once - how will you know if it was the router or the interleaving that fixed the fault?
Anyway, on the grounds that I trust you and the Digital Care team, more than I trust CSC Agents, I will now swap my current router (which you supplied in May as part of a faults process) for my old one. edit: DONE.
BBFN,
Martin
Quote
Dear <snip>
We have asked our wholesale broadband suppliers to turn interleaving on on your phone line to try and fix your current broadband problem.
Interleaving is a form of error correction that helps to improve the stability of high-speed broadband. One drawback of interleaving is that it can increase ping times, which may cause problems for online gamers.
We think that turning on interleaving may help with your connection problems. Interleaving usually takes 24 hours to turn on, but can take up to 5 days to take effect.
If you are still seeing problems with interleaving switched on please get back in touch with us. Thank you for your time and patience

Kind regards,
Plusnet Customer Support
http://www.plus.net/
Email ref: E0106
Plusnet Help Team
Plusnet Help Team
Posts: 12,978
Thanks: 140
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Registered: 27-04-2007

Re: "Internet" drops, but DSL doesn't, AND speed slower than normal

Thanks for swapping the router out.
I'm simply going to recommend that you leave that in place for the rest of today to see how things go. If we see no improvement I'll log a fault report with our suppliers. Obviously I'll keep interleaving in mind as a factor.
Adam.
If this post resolved your issue please click the 'This fixed my problem' button
 Adam Walker
 Plusnet Help Team
Plusnet Help Team
Plusnet Help Team
Posts: 12,978
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Registered: 27-04-2007

Re: "Internet" drops, but DSL doesn't, AND speed slower than normal

This is just a quick update to say that the connection has remained solid since the router was swapped just over 2 and a half hours ago.
I'll perform another check towards the end of the day.
If this post resolved your issue please click the 'This fixed my problem' button
 Adam Walker
 Plusnet Help Team
Plusnet Help Team
Plusnet Help Team
Posts: 12,978
Thanks: 140
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Registered: 27-04-2007

Re: "Internet" drops, but DSL doesn't, AND speed slower than normal

I've just checked the logs again and can see that the connection is still holding up so I'm going to advise leaving the second router connected overnight. I'll then check back with your tomorrow.
If this post resolved your issue please click the 'This fixed my problem' button
 Adam Walker
 Plusnet Help Team
snozboz
Rising Star
Posts: 395
Thanks: 5
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Registered: 27-07-2007

Re: "Internet" drops, but DSL doesn't, AND speed slower than normal

Adam,
Thank you for all this early (in the faults process) and frequent (4 posts and actions in one day) attention!  It's wonderful  Smiley
I have left and will leave my old ST546 router plugged in to the test socket etc until you say otherwise.  And during the day I will use a wired ethernet connection to my computer. 
Can I plug my Apple Airport Express in to one of the router's ethernet ports, so I can have WiFi to listen to iPlayer when I take my MacBook to my bedroom at night?  (The router itself doesn't offer a wireless connection.)  Or might this potentially disrupt things?
BBFN,
Martin
Superuser
Superuser
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Re: "Internet" drops, but DSL doesn't, AND speed slower than normal

I don't expect Adam to be around now until tomorrow. However I think the main thing is not to change anything within your property that could cause the "internet" to drop. From your opening post having the MacBook connected appears to be a potential factor in problem causes, so not connecting that this evening would be best.
If all is well tonight, I think the presence of the Airport and MacBook needs to be eliminated next.
However one could argue the replacement router has had a good run through today so you could add the Airport and MacBook now to see if that behaviour continues overnight. If it does, success, if it doesn't you would have to eliminate any effect from the MacBook.
Six of one and half-a-dozen the other, up to you to make the choice. I assume plugging in the Airport and connecting the MacBook will not require a router restart?
David
David