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pppoe

Blakie
Newbie
Posts: 6
Registered: ‎13-04-2010

pppoe

Can anyone give me a definitive answer as to the viability of pppoe on BT lines. I am hoping to set up a wireless network using DD-WRT and a Linksys router. The BT voyager 210 in Bridge mode. As far as I can see both the Linksys and DD-WRT only support pppoe rather than the recommended pppoa. From reading other posts it seems that pppoe MAY work. Has anyone got any expierience of trying this. Is this issue exchange specific?
I'm very new to all this and still learning and so I would appreciate any help you can offer.
Thanks
15 REPLIES
grahamt
Rising Star
Posts: 567
Thanks: 13
Registered: ‎05-04-2008

Re: pppoe

As far as I know, PPPoE will work as long as you're on the 21CN. I think that covers both ADSL1 and ADSL2+ - but you need to be on the 21CN. I'm sure someone here will correct me if I'm wrong. I can't quite remember why the 21CN makes a difference. It may be because it's built around native IP. Again, I'm sure someone more knowledgeable will help us out here.
PPPoE certainly works for me on 21CN/ADSL2+. (I tried it once when someone said it might be more stable. I don't know if that's true but I kept it - even though my line is now more stable than it used to be -  as I quite like using the same system as most of Europe. Others may of course prefer British individualism/isolation) The only downside is that sometimes after a resync at my end it takes several (5-7) minutes for PPP to be re-established after the basic ADSL line comes up. I don't know if that's a universal experience.
The only thing you have to remember when configuring PPPoE is to adjust your multiplex setting to LLC rather than VC.
I don't think it's exchange-specific (apart from the exchange supporting 21CN).
Graham
Plusnet Help Team
Plusnet Help Team
Posts: 13,536
Thanks: 252
Fixes: 69
Registered: ‎27-04-2007

Re: pppoe

Blakie,
As Graham says the chances are if you are on 21CN or ADSL2+ the chances are this should work. However please bear in mind that this is not guaranteed as the majority of BT wholesale's ADSL network uses PPP over ATM still.
If this post resolved your issue please click the 'This fixed my problem' button
 Adam Walker
 Plusnet Help Team
Blakie
Newbie
Posts: 6
Registered: ‎13-04-2010

Re: pppoe

Thanks to both of you for the prompt replies, I presume then that I must purchase something such as the Draytek Vigor to "translate"pppoe to pppoa because the exchange is in west Wales and supports only ADSL and ADSL max
Any thoughts on the approapriate kit would be welcome.
Thanks again
Plusnet Help Team
Plusnet Help Team
Posts: 13,536
Thanks: 252
Fixes: 69
Registered: ‎27-04-2007

Re: pppoe

Blakie,
As staff we can't really recommend any particular make or model other than the Thomson Speedtouch 585V7 and ST510 that we currently offer with our packages. However I'm sure the other guys on here would be happy to give you some recommendations.
If this post resolved your issue please click the 'This fixed my problem' button
 Adam Walker
 Plusnet Help Team
MrC
Grafter
Posts: 523
Thanks: 2
Registered: ‎17-07-2008

Re: pppoe

Quote from: Blakie
As far as I can see both the Linksys and DD-WRT only support pppoe rather than the recommended pppoa.
If you are using separate modem and router then the Linksys router has to use PPPoE - it's not directly connected to the ATM network so can't use PPPoA. In this case the E in PPPoE refers to the ethernet link between the router and the modem. The Voyager in bridge mode handles the ATM traffic and acts as a bridge to enable PPP traffic to pass between it's ATM and ethernet interfaces. As far as BT/PN are concerned you're still using PPPoA.
A number of people use this setup - see http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/freenetname/3022126-voyager-210-and-linksys-wrt54g-router.html which in turn refers to http://www.puzbie.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=143 (although this example contradicts itself in section 8 where it says to use LLC-SNAP but all subsequent screen prints show VC-MUX being used - I'd stick with VC-MUX).
Alternatively can't you use the Voyager as a normal modem/router and then use the Linksys just as an ethernet switch and wireless access point (eg disable DHCP)? This could possibly be a bit simpler depending on your requirements.
Blakie
Newbie
Posts: 6
Registered: ‎13-04-2010

Re: pppoe

Thanks to all those who replied!
MrC - Thanks for the links, coincidentaly I had found the Puzbie site but was confused as the router used for the test was a Netgear Mimo which supports pppoa, but your link to the chap with the Linksys problem has resolved that issue - many thanks for that. As to DHCP I think I will need to turn it off on the modem as I am trying to achieve Wlan separate from Lan with independent DHCP using DD-WRT commands and scripts which I presume will all be dealt with by that firmware in the router.
As soon as I pop down to Wales I will implement your advice using the original Linksys firmware and see how things work out.
If anyone can offer any help on DD-WRT then please step forward. I've still got a lot ot learn!!
Once again thank you to all for your advice and assistance
Community Veteran
Posts: 6,111
Thanks: 1
Registered: ‎05-04-2007

Re: pppoe

I've used PPPoE on both ADSL1 over 20CN and ADSL2+ over 21CN with no problems – BT's network was configured to accept PPPoE some years ago.
Blakie
Newbie
Posts: 6
Registered: ‎13-04-2010

Re: pppoe

Thanks for that Be3g, and so is the recommendation to configure the modem for llc snap or vc mux? I'm afraid much as I know the terms I only know what I have read and that is that the encapsulation of the packets is different and that pppoa is more efficient as it requires less data to transmit the same information and is faster. Having said that there appears to be an argument that pppoe is more stable.
Where do these variable emerge? In the exchange or at the servers or is it more complex than this?
I would appreciate your views as the support staff seem to lean towards pppoa
Thanks
MrC
Grafter
Posts: 523
Thanks: 2
Registered: ‎17-07-2008

Re: pppoe

Quote from: Blakie
I would appreciate your views as the support staff seem to lean towards pppoa
If you want to use the Voyager as a DSL modem to front-end your Linksys router then the router has to use PPPoE. The router cannot use PPPoA in this configuration. Configure your modem to use bridge mode, VC-MUX and the normal VPI & VCI.
As I mentioned earlier you may find it easier to use your Voyager as a straight-forward modem/router and use the Linksys as a switch and wireless access point.
Blakie
Newbie
Posts: 6
Registered: ‎13-04-2010

Re: pppoe

Thanks again MrC,
I will follow your advice and appreciate your help. My question was regarding pppoa versus pppoe and the comments before your own from the moderator who suggests that pppoe works all over the BT network and has for several years.
As I mentioned earlier I am not sure if I am to go down the Wlan separate fron Lan route with DD-WRT whether or not I should employ the DHCP server on the modem or that within the DD-WRT firmware.
Still learning, and you will appreciate that the reason for my original post was because there appears to be some conflicting advice elsewhere and consequently your original post with links appears to have resolved that issue AND I don't have to buy anymore equipment - thank you. You may be interested to know that this project is to allow two pensioners to share an internet connection, but with separate networks to ensure complete privacy. I know this can be done with routers, but I understand this causes problems with port forwarding
Thanks to all for taking up their time to address this issue
grahamt
Rising Star
Posts: 567
Thanks: 13
Registered: ‎05-04-2008

Re: pppoe

I hope this doesn't cause any more confusion:
All I know is that when I tried to run PPPoE and VC Mux it didn't work. When I switched to LLC it did work. However, this is just for a single modem/router configuration. Things may be different if you're using the router in bridging mode. Try both ways and see what works.
(The puzbie post says in text no.7 that the following screenshot is wrong and needs updating.)
Interesting to hear that PPPoE also works with the 20CN. I didn't know that.
Graham
Community Veteran
Posts: 6,111
Thanks: 1
Registered: ‎05-04-2007

Re: pppoe

With regards to the encapsulation, I'm afraid I can't offer any advice as far as that's concerned – I haven't used PPPoE for 16 months now so I can't actually remember which settings were required. I have a feeling, however, that I didn't need to change any of the defaults.
itsme
Grafter
Posts: 5,924
Thanks: 1
Registered: ‎07-04-2007

Re: pppoe

I'm the same as Be3G that I have used PPPoE on both 20CN and 21CN but since August last year have been using a single modem/router, electrical storm took out my modem, and I also can't remember  the encapsulation settings.
My recommendation will be to set the Voyager in full bridge and not half bridge. You will know this by the fact that you have to use PPPoE on the linksys and the external IP address get passed to the Linksys. With the Voyager in full bridge or other setting DHCP etc should be ignored.
I was also using a Linksys running DD-WRT when I was using PPPoE and I do miss some of the features especially the graphing of traffic on the WAN, WLAN and LAN.
Community Veteran
Posts: 3,789
Registered: ‎08-06-2007

Re: pppoe

If it helps, I used PPPoE on 20CN with a DG834G for a considerable amount of time and it worked fine (I had to use PPPoE to enable the snmp reporting functions)
My impression is that PPPoE availability heavily depends on the exchange equipment - for 20CN, some is enabled and some is not.  For 21CN they should all be enabled
B.