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interleaving

scottymc
Grafter
Posts: 224
Thanks: 5
Registered: 04-02-2015

interleaving

Hi Guys and Girls
I had a problem a few weeks ago with my internet got in touch with you guys through the forum and it was promptly sorted out thank you very much..
But since then my connection has had interleaving turned on and my two sons in all their wisdom are telling my that this is not good for them while playing online something to do with the ping ??
That said the connection has been fine for me and my wife.
Its been up for 14 days and has been perfect.
But they won't give me any peace until i ask/try to get it turned off.
So if its not to much trouble please can you get it turned off on my line thank you in advance
Scott 
95 REPLIES
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,101
Thanks: 443
Fixes: 21
Registered: 31-08-2007

Re: interleaving

Hi scottymc,
I see from the stats you posted that Interleaving didn't get turned off, unless it was set to Auto and has come on again?
scottymc
Grafter
Posts: 224
Thanks: 5
Registered: 04-02-2015

Re: interleaving

Hi Sorry Buddy,
My oldest boy told me the FEC Errors mean its on  Smiley To be fair i have no idea  Roll eyes
if you have seen the stats is the line looking ok Huh
Don't remember seen so many errors before
They seem to think something is wrong
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,101
Thanks: 443
Fixes: 21
Registered: 31-08-2007

Re: interleaving

FEC errors do mean that Interleaving is on. When your line was reset, Interleaving is automatically set to Auto by default. Obviously the exchange automatic Dynamic Line Management (DLM) thought your line had a few too many errors or drops in connection perhaps
Quote from: scottymc
Uptime: 0 days, 5:52:59
DSL Type: ITU-T G.992.5
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 1,076 / 5,483
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [MB/GB]: 301.36 / 4.72
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12.7 / 0.0
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 27.2 / 51.0
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 5.0 / 2.9
System Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / ----
Chipset Vendor ID (Local/Remote): BDCM / IFTN
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Link (Remote): -
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 215 / 0
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 680 / 8,643,650
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 50 / 332
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 35 / 3,043

I notice the Uptime is only 5hrs 52:59 (and no LoS) so I guess you've Rebooted or only just switched it on. This might not be helping either.
Can you tell us a bit more about what you do with the modem/router - do you leave it on 24/7 or switch it on and off - if so typically when & how often? Do you reboot it, again how frequently?
The FEC error count does indicate the level of corrected errors, but the CRC & ES count isn't that good. This is tricky on a longer line that yours appears to be. The downstream SNRM at 2.9dB at present, is low considering these things. How important is the actual connection speed for your usage?
I assume it's your boys that think something is wrong?
scottymc
Grafter
Posts: 224
Thanks: 5
Registered: 04-02-2015

Re: interleaving

Yes i had just rebooted
but it had been perfect was on for 13/14 days with no problems just the ping spikes and the kids moaning about the game play  Smiley
it was just the FEC errors were massive so i rebooted left it for 5 hours had look and they were already up to 8 million
The router is never touched i just have a look at the web stats page when the kids start to moan ( to be honest i don't know what I'm looking at )
the kids seem to know more than me on the subject Smiley
scottymc
Grafter
Posts: 224
Thanks: 5
Registered: 04-02-2015

Re: interleaving

Yes i think the SNRM is set to 3 we are connecting higher to the exchange than before , like i said it works fine for everything we (me and the wife ) use it for
just the kids seem to be having problems gaming.
scottymc
Grafter
Posts: 224
Thanks: 5
Registered: 04-02-2015

Re: interleaving

Here are some more stats so you can see how it has changed in a few hours
Link Information
Uptime: 0 days, 8:16:43
DSL Type: ITU-T G.992.5
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 1,076 / 5,483
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [MB/GB]: 450.75 / 5.60
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12.7 / 0.0
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 27.2 / 51.0
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 5.3 / 3.0
System Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / ----
Chipset Vendor ID (Local/Remote): BDCM / IFTN
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Link (Remote): -
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 319 / 0
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 831 / 12,762,892
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 60 / 495
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 39 / 4,503
Plusnet Staff
Plusnet Staff
Posts: 6,346
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Registered: 26-11-2011

Re: interleaving

We can certainly switch Interleaving off for you, but it does come with the risk that your connection may start to drop out.
Interleaving performs error correction on your  line, if your line is erroring that Interleaving is dealing with automatically and we remove it, it could cause the connection to drop out.
If you're happy to accept that risk, we can remove Interleaving. If we do this, and it does cause a problem, we can always either raise your SNR (slight speed drop but barely noticeable) or re-apply Interleaving.
Raising the SNR from 3db to 6db will probably take your bandwidth (from your stats) down to around 5000K but nothing you'll likely notice.
My advice would be for us to move your SNR to 6db and remove Interleaving and see how your line fairs out, I would guess that it'll probably be fine. A line on 3db with no Interleaving *can* be problematic.
Let us know your thoughts and what you'd like to do Smiley
Chris Pettitt
Cloud Environments Engineer
scottymc
Grafter
Posts: 224
Thanks: 5
Registered: 04-02-2015

Re: interleaving

Chris thats fine by me
Turn it off and raise the SNR to 6db .... If nothing else it would get the kids off my back Smiley
If its not to much trouble that would be much appreciated
Thanks
Scott 
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,101
Thanks: 443
Fixes: 21
Registered: 31-08-2007

Re: interleaving

Can you post some daytime stats, would be good to see how much your SNRM is varying.
If the Target SNRMis set to 6dB you will of course connect at a slower speed which is why I asked how important that was. Apart from gaming, where obviously you want the lower ping times, do you do things like streaming? The speed may become important which is why I wouldn't rush to get the Target SNRM changed.
Also just to point out rebooting won't do any good, the FEC count on the modem/router (along with other error counts) is just reset, it doesn't remove them from the line. A reboot can be seen by DLM as a dropped connection and in the wrong circumstances that can cause speed banding or raised Target SNRM.
scottymc
Grafter
Posts: 224
Thanks: 5
Registered: 04-02-2015

Re: interleaving

Here are some stats for 2pm today
Link Information
Uptime: 0 days, 23:05:17
DSL Type: ITU-T G.992.5
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 1,076 / 5,483
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [GB/GB]: 1.00 / 15.17
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12.7 / 0.0
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 27.2 / 51.0
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 5.1 / 3.0
System Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / ----
Chipset Vendor ID (Local/Remote): BDCM / IFTN
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Link (Remote): -
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 648 / 0
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 2,894 / 42,320,455
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 260 / 1,106
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 184 / 11,757
Anotherone  thanks for heads up on the reboot won't be doing that i didn't know it could mess the connection up ..to be honest the reboot yesterday was after a 14 day stint and the router is always on normally .
Me and the wife do watch Netflix but that is when the kids are offline so we have all the connection for streaming.
if by upping the SNR to 6db and removing interleaving drops my sync speed to say 4/4.5 meg will Netflix still be possible ?
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,101
Thanks: 443
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Registered: 31-08-2007

Re: interleaving

The slower speed wouldn't be any good for the HD plan (if you have it) but should be OK for SD. I'd initially consider leaving the Target SNRM as it is, DLM would soon raise it if the error rate was too high, but I am concerned about the current error rates. At least there doesn't appear to be any huge variations in your SNRM, but best to perhaps check some basics.
Can you hear/have you heard any crackling or other noises on the line when using the phone? Have you had any problems with incoming or outgoing calls?
Do you have a Master Socket like the one on the left?
Do you have any extension phone sockets, and where are you currently plugged in?
scottymc
Grafter
Posts: 224
Thanks: 5
Registered: 04-02-2015

Re: interleaving

Hi mate
I have the one on the right don't have a home phone only use mobiles Smiley so can't check for noise or if anything happens when people call in its only ever PPI people that call anyway
all the rooms have a phone socket but the router is in the adsl faceplate.. here is another stat...
Link Information
Uptime: 1 day, 2:47:42
DSL Type: ITU-T G.992.5
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 1,076 / 5,483
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [GB/GB]: 1.42 / 16.11
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12.7 / 0.0
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 27.2 / 51.0
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 5.0 / 3.2
System Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / ----
Chipset Vendor ID (Local/Remote): BDCM / IFTN
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Link (Remote): -
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 736 / 0
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 3,365 / 47,863,999
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 285 / 1,273
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 195 / 14,292
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,101
Thanks: 443
Fixes: 21
Registered: 31-08-2007

Re: interleaving

If I've got my maths right those ES (Error Seconds) are giving an MTBE of around 20 (Mean time between errors of ~20 seconds) not good.
So presumably you've got a filter plugged into the Master socket and nothing plugged in elsewhere or any other sockets?
Does your Microfilter look similar to this?
I have a further suggestion depending on your answer to those queries.
If I were you, I'd borrow or dig out a good corded phone and check your phone line for noise. Use the Quiet Line Test on 17070 option 2.
A rubbish phone line = rubbish broadband.
scottymc
Grafter
Posts: 224
Thanks: 5
Registered: 04-02-2015

Re: interleaving

hi buddy
no i don't use a microfilter . line goes from adsl faceplate straight to the router ?
i can take this faceplate off and plug into the socket behind with a microfilter if you think that will help ?
going to get a phone from a friend try the line test ill let you know how it goes