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drivenout issue (was:New customer-speed ok but some websites simply not opening)

drivenout
Dabbler
Posts: 15
Registered: 19-07-2015

drivenout issue (was:New customer-speed ok but some websites simply not opening)

Hi all,
New customer here and having problems that sound very like everything in this thread, I'm happy to start a new thread instead if that's considered the done thing?
Anyway speed is as I'd expect from the BTW speedtest but some specific sites take ages to load or don't load at all (like speedtest.net for example as it was also mentioned in this thread).
Have tried a factory reset a couple of times as well as the 'gentle' reset and wait mentioned but this doesn't seem to solve the issue. Should I be trying anything else or requesting a new router if this is still a known issue? The first posts in this thread seem to indicate plusnet needed to do something at their end to get the problem sorted, is this still the case? Router stats as below...
1 - Product name: Plusnet Router
2 - Serial number: XXXXXX  
3 - Firmware version: 7.273.1_F2704N_Plusnet
4 - Board version: F@ST2704N
5 - Mode ADSL
6 - Uptime: 0 days 00:14:27
7 - Data rate: 1276/13957
8 - Maximum data rate: 1276/15192
9 - Noise margin: 6.1/12.1
10 - Line attenuation: 15.9/27.5
12 - Data sent/received: 4.2M/23.5M
20 - Broadband username: XXXXX@plusdsl.net
21 - Wi-Fi network/SSID: PLUSNET-MF73NR
22 - Wi-Fi connections: Enable(802.11 b/g/n(up to 144 Mb/s))20 MHz WPS enabled
23 - Wi-Fi security: WPA2
24 - Wi-Fi channel: Automatic (Smart Wireless)
25 - Firewall: Default
26 - MAC Address: 44:e9:dd:3b:0c:0f
27 - Software variant Version 1.0
28 - Boot loader: 7.273.1

As an aside I have to admit I'm a bit disappointed with plusnet so far, I came from EE which although the customer service was shocking at times, at least everything worked out the box and I didn't have to faff about with things. This is the second issue within a week of being connected (first was the connection not working at all two days after the promised connection date). Also to be fair I must say everyone has been nothing but helpful on the phone when I've rang up but I shouldn't have had to phone up if a known problem, which from a quick search of the forums this is, had been fixed correctly or at least flagged up as a possible issue to new customers. Rant over...
[Moderator's note by Adie (dvorak) split topic and changed title.]
adie:green removed username and serial number. ]
34 REPLIES
Estragon
Rising Star
Posts: 811
Thanks: 10
Registered: 07-02-2012

Re: New customer - speed ok(ish) but some websites simply not opening

Did you have a higher Data Rate with EE? Your downstream noise margin is high, and the Data Rate low for your attenuation.
I know speed isn't your question, but these figures could suggest a problem on the line.
drivenout
Dabbler
Posts: 15
Registered: 19-07-2015

Re: New customer - speed ok(ish) but some websites simply not opening

Wow, didn't even have time to make a cup of tea before I got a reply notification, thanks very much!
As well as the staff, I'm actually pleasantly surprised with the speed from plusnet, its about the same or faster than EE but I cant get on the speedtest.net site that used to use so its hard to give you numbers that prove the historic values. I should say I'm still within the 10 day 'training' period but an earlier response from a plusnet staff member in this thread seemed to indicate this wasn't the issue as some sites load pretty darn fast.
I have attached a shot of the BTW test on a short cable wired connection in case its any help.
Also when I ping the speedtest.net site with various MTU settings as suggested here (or maybe another thread) even with 1472 set I seem to get a reply (screen attached)
Sorry just typing anything I can think of, but I get the same issues connecting wireless/wired laptop/mobile, also cant get the speedtest (ookla) app to run a test on my mobile (it times out trying to find a server)
Thanks again for the help.
Superuser
Superuser
Posts: 10,429
Thanks: 1,912
Fixes: 19
Registered: 22-08-2007

Re: New customer - speed ok(ish) but some websites simply not opening

Hi drivenout,
A warm welcome to the forums.  Given the information you've posted, this is not the MTU issue which is the subject of this thread and you do not appear to have DNS issues, otherwise the ping to www.speedtest.net would not succeed.
I will ask the mods to split your posts out to a new post.
As advised above, your synch speed is low for your line's attenuation and for some reason the SNRM is much higher than one would expect.  There are a number of reasons why this might happen, but first I need a PlusNet staff member (CRT) to advise of your line's target SNRM.
If the target is 12dB then that would suggest that the DLM is managing faults on the line.
If the target is 6dB then that might suggest that there is intermittent inference impacting the line's performance.
HOWEVER, neither of those issues are related to not being able to "reach" a site.  Which browser are you using?  What version of Windows are you running on?  I see from time to time issues with IE11 on Win7 and not being able to access some sites (for example Google) even though I can resolve their names and ping their names.  In such situations, launching a new instance of the browser (not a new tab) all works fine ... whilst the tab in the old session still refuses to connect.
I've seen some sub-content (e.g. adverts on Thinkbroadband.com) not load and show the "site cannot be reached" error page.  All a bit crazy.
For what its worth, speedtest.net loads very slowly for me as do other sites which are filled with bloat-ware advertising garbage.
drivenout
Dabbler
Posts: 15
Registered: 19-07-2015

Re: New customer - speed ok(ish) but some websites simply not opening

Hi,
Thanks again for the reply, I don't think I've ever been on a more active product community forum!
I'm assuming plusnet aren't in on the weekends (fair enough really) but is what you're describing something that would be specific to plusnet? I only ask as this isn't something I've ever noticed with previous suppliers, I have been with EE and talktalk (don't judge me it seemed cheap at the time!) at this address and haven't ever had this issue so I would find it hard to accept it was a issue with the line hardware at least.
Laptop is windows 8.1 (tried latest IE and latest chrome browser) and mobile is latest stock android OS (tried stock internet app and chrome mobile browser) all with the same issue. Also get a timeout when trying to load home screen in iplayer app and Netflix app on mobile as a couple of examples, both of which run fine on 4G (and ran fine on EE). Exploring with new browser instances doesn't seem to have an effect.
Anything else you think I should try to run or check to help with investigations? I can try different sites if speedtest is a bad example, it just happens to show the issue.
Superuser
Superuser
Posts: 10,429
Thanks: 1,912
Fixes: 19
Registered: 22-08-2007

Re: New customer - speed ok(ish) but some websites simply not opening

Hi drivenout,
You are correct - PlusNet staff do not work in the forums on Sundays.  Indeed it looks like the mods are not here today either!  Grin
You need to stick with a site which reproduces the problem.  Do I understand correctly that you are seeing this problem on all platforms (Windows and android) using a variety of browsers when connected via the PlusNet router?
Is this the 2704n router?  If yes, then mat be it is something to do with the router, but not this MTU size issue.  Reading around there is conflicting advice on MTU settings for Netflix see this thread which suggests decreasing the MTU to 1462 but also says it works fine at the usual 1500.
drivenout
Dabbler
Posts: 15
Registered: 19-07-2015

Re: New customer - speed ok(ish) but some websites simply not opening

It is the 2704n router and yes across all platforms, and as an additional check I have tried the same on my wife's mac with both latest chrome and safari browsers, all of which I know worked fine before joining plusnet.
With EE I had their standard brightbox router, which had a similar plug and play functionality but possibly had something extra the brightbox one doesn't in terms of setting itself up?
I don't want to keep harking on about it (last thing I want to do is annoy as I know everyone is only trying to help  Tongue) but the default MTU settings on the devices seemed OK in the past for everything I would want to look at.
Superuser
Superuser
Posts: 10,429
Thanks: 1,912
Fixes: 19
Registered: 22-08-2007

Re: New customer - speed ok(ish) but some websites simply not opening

This is a journey, though which known issues which give rise to the symptoms you've described need to be examined and discarded.
From what you've said so far, it is not related to the strange behaviour I've seen on Win7 platforms, it does not appear to be the MTU size issue described in this thread.
Do you still have a router form one of your previous ISPs?  You could try putting your PlusNet user details in them and give the other routers a try out.
EDIT: Light bulb idea ... sometimes there can be problems with DNS responsiveness.  Do you know how to alter the IPv4 settings on your PC?  If yes, can you try setting them to the manual values of 8.8.8.8 and 8.8.4.4 (Google) thereby over riding those provided by PlusNet / DHCP?
drivenout
Dabbler
Posts: 15
Registered: 19-07-2015

Re: New customer - speed ok(ish) but some websites simply not opening

Only one I still have is the EE router and they have locked it down so that you can only use a username with @fs at the end i.e. cant connect to plusnet
Interestingly i have attached a screenshot of the router settings and it shows that it had in fact set itself up with an MTU lower than 1500 (apologies for my earlier assumption), I hadn't touched the settings here so it either came pre-loaded with that or worked it out somehow (maybe in the EE training period?).
out of interest I've tried to do a soft connect each time but will i be ruining the stats on my connection by disconnecting and reconnecting? More of a note to any plusnet staff that might pick this up and do one of those graph analysis things of up time (i forget the name but I've seen them elsewhere on the forum). Again just from reading up on here, even if i was it would sort itself out after a few days and return to normal speeds right?
Superuser
Superuser
Posts: 10,429
Thanks: 1,912
Fixes: 19
Registered: 22-08-2007

Re: New customer - speed ok(ish) but some websites simply not opening

Quote from: drivenout
Also when I ping the speedtest.net site with various MTU settings as suggested here (or maybe another thread) even with 1472 set I seem to get a reply (screen attached)

The above implies that the MTU with the 2704n is 1500.
Quote from: http
One common problem that rears its head again and again on forums is the inability for users to view certain sites, in particular Microsoft sites, hotmail and ebay. Quite often this is the result of an MTU problem.
What is happening?
When your PC requests data from these sites, they use something called Path MTU Discovery to check what size packets to send back to your PC. If the site is unable to check what size packet to send it uses the default MTU of 1500 (for windows PCs). However there are there are certain gateways/routers on the Internet which use a smaller MTU, therefore the packets are too large to be transmitted and are rejected or dropped.
It is the job of Path MTU Discovery to find and report the smallest MTU setting between your PC and the remote site, so that the remote server sends out the correct sized packets.

It goes on to explain how what can go wrong.  I note with interest that the relevant technology uses ICMP protocol to check the maximum packet size - ICMP Pig is not supported by the 2704n.
Whilst there appears to some association, I cannot believe that such fundamental functionality is not present in the 2704n with the consequence of what you are experiencing.  This rather needs assistance from Bob Pullen ... and a clear explanation of what is going wrong with these routers... if that is what your problem is.
drivenout
Dabbler
Posts: 15
Registered: 19-07-2015

Re: New customer - speed ok(ish) but some websites simply not opening

Just playing but have checked a few other sites that are linked in various places on this forum (all tested on wireless connection)...
http://www.speedguide.net/analyzer.php
gives me
« SpeedGuide.net TCP Analyzer Results »
Tested on: 2015.07.19 14:07
IP address: 80.189.xxx.xx
Client OS/browser: Windows 8.1 (Chrome 43.0.2357.134)

TCP options string: 020405b40103030801010402
MSS: 1460
MTU: 1500
TCP Window: 16384 (NOT multiple of MSS)
RWIN Scaling: 8 bits (2^8=256)
Unscaled RWIN : 64
Recommended RWINs: 64240, 128480, 256960, 513920, 1027840
BDP limit (200ms): 655kbps (82KBytes/s)
BDP limit (500ms): 262kbps (33KBytes/s)
MTU Discovery: ON
TTL: 115
Timestamps: OFF
SACKs: ON
IP ToS: 10000000 (12Cool
    Precedence: 100 (flash override)
    Delay: 0 (normal delay)
    Throughput: 0 (normal throughput)
    Reliability: 0 (normal reliability)
    Cost: 0 (normal cost)
    Check bit: 0 (correct)
DSCP (DiffServ): CS4 100000 (32) - class 4 (RFC 2474). Similar forwarding behavior to the ToS Precedence field.
and
http://www.letmecheck.it/mtu-test.php
gives me
We are unable to test this host or IP.
Most likely ICMP traffic to that host or IP is not allowed or the host or IP is invalid.
which would back up your comment about ICMP protocol not being supported by the router.
If i have to end up buying my own router i will, but i did have to pay to get this one delivered and i was kind of hoping it would just work.
Superuser
Superuser
Posts: 10,429
Thanks: 1,912
Fixes: 19
Registered: 22-08-2007

Re: New customer - speed ok(ish) but some websites simply not opening

It should, we need CRT (or hopefully Bob Pullen) to pick this up for you on Monday.
Thanks for the links.
drivenout
Dabbler
Posts: 15
Registered: 19-07-2015

Re: drivenout issue (was:New customer-speed ok but some websites simply not opening)

Just noticed an edit on one of your earlier posts about DNS settings...
..tried changing them to google on the router settings, my PC settings and in the chrome browser settings (which seems to let you use different settings to the PC) and combinations of all 3, sadly with no noticeable effect on the issue.
I'm assuming with the router i don't need to restart each time as it seems to just apply them?
drivenout
Dabbler
Posts: 15
Registered: 19-07-2015

Re: drivenout issue (was:New customer-speed ok but some websites simply not opening)

Sorry for the double post but is there an official way to raise an issue to make sure it gets tracked and noticed by plusnet staff? I see a lot of people mentioning ticket numbers but it looks like this can only be raised by staff after a phone or chat conversation.
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,099
Thanks: 434
Fixes: 21
Registered: 31-08-2007

Re: drivenout issue (was:New customer-speed ok but some websites simply not opening)

You can raise them yourself (see links in my sig) but for a limited number of issues atm, this is a major bone of contention at present.
This certainly needs one of the more technical members of the CRT to take a look at this for you.