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Will a Filtered faceplate help with this?

riemanrez
Grafter
Posts: 46
Registered: ‎22-11-2009

Will a Filtered faceplate help with this?

Ok, so my speeds aren't great, but they fit my SYNC rates and there's no real 'fualt' as such. However, i tried connecting my router directly to the test socket of my NTE-5 master box today, and my SYNC rate jumped up considerably, with my SNR doubling and my attenuation halving. Based on this, i think it would be a good idea to fit a filtered faceplate, ideally this one; http://www.adslnation.com/phpapps/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=24&products_id=105. Unfortunately i don't really understand how i could wire it. When i remove my existing faceplate, there are no visible wires connected to it, it comes straight off. The only thing that it is connected to is the text socket, which it just pushes into. Is this normal? Will the new faceplate push in place in the same way, or do i need to rewire the whole box? And will the new faceplate be able to filter the signal properly if it is coming from a single test socket rather than separate wires?
Here are my stats before and after switching the router directly to the test socket and removing the phone splitter.
Data rate (Kbps)up/down          448/4288    448/7616
Noise margin (dB) up/down      11/10          11/25
Attenuation (dB) up/down          54/...          27/...
I am assuming a bigger noise margin is better? I don't know why there is no downstream attenuation reading, my router just tells me it is ---dB. Is this normal?
Thanks
Luke
34 REPLIES
Community Veteran
Posts: 38,460
Thanks: 1,031
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Registered: ‎15-06-2007

Re: Will a Filtered faceplate help with this?

If I understand you correctly - when you remove the lower part of the faceplate there are no wires connected to it - which means that you don't have any other telephone points in the house
Also plugging into the test socket makes an enormous difference.
The first question is - were both tests done with the same cable and filter connecting the router to the box.
If they were the odds are that the lower faceplate is knackered so replacing it would/should fix the problem. Even though you apparently have no internal wiring the ADSL Nation filtered faceplate would work and you wouldn't need a separate filter.
Just to be sure though you should check again with the faceplate attached and without a telephone connected as it might just be your router playing up
Superuser
Superuser
Posts: 6,958
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Registered: ‎30-07-2007

Re: Will a Filtered faceplate help with this?

Quote
When i remove my existing faceplate, there are no visible wires connected to it, it comes straight off. The only thing that it is connected to is the text socket, which it just pushes into. Is this normal?

Its normal if you don't have any extension sockets.
Quote
Will the new faceplate push in place in the same way, or do i need to rewire the whole box?

It just plugs in place of the old faceplate.
Quote
And will the new faceplate be able to filter the signal properly if it is coming from a single test socket rather than separate wires?

Yes, its designed to do just that.
Assuming you don't have any extensions ( as you don't appear to have any wires attached to the existing faceplate ) then it sounds like you either have a bad connection on the existing faceplate OR a faulty filter ( you did say you removed the filter when connected to the test socket ? ).
It may be that removing and reinserting the faceplate may make the connector 'better' , have you checked the stats again with the faceplate back on?.
Note that its not a good idea to do a lot of disconnecting and reconnecting in a short period, the BT exchange will think you have a bad connection and increase the target noise margin.
Edit , its appears that Jim types faster than me....
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,102
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Registered: ‎31-08-2007

Re: Will a Filtered faceplate help with this?

As MisterW has already mentioned, a lot of disconnection and reconnecting will be problematic. When you need to swap things around for testing, powerdown your modem/router and wait several minutes before unplugging anything that disconnects it from the line eg. it's cable, the filter, master faceplate etc. Don't do this more than 5 times in an hour, and then leave it alone for the rest of the day. This is to help prevent the exchange DLM from thinking you have an intermittent line problem.
To clarify, how did you connect "direct" to the test socket? Did you use a different cable or is this the same one as you plugged into the filter?
The Filtered faceplate you've mentioned will do away with any need for plug in filters and is ideal if at anytime you want to install extension sockets for phones/faxes/sky etc or even a dedicated remote ADSL socket for the modem/router.
riemanrez
Grafter
Posts: 46
Registered: ‎22-11-2009

Re: Will a Filtered faceplate help with this?

Haha well thanks to you both, regardless of who replied first Grin. This clears up a lot.
Quote
which means that you don't have any other telephone points in the house

This is correct, or rather i do, but they all plug into the faceplate rather than being wired inside, i'll explain;
At the moment i have a standard BT faceplate with a single socket. Into this plugs a splitter thingy, which is almost certainly the source of the problem. It looks something like the one below, except that there  is also a wire that comes out of the bottom of it. This leads into our kitchen, where we have a little extension box which our phone plugs into.
Going back to the original splitter, there is also an extension cable plugged into this. This goes up through the ceiling and ends up by our main computer, where it leads into another little extension box. Our router plugs into this. When i did the test i simply removed the splitter, (and esentially removing all the wiring for our phone), and plugged the extension that goes upstairs into the test socket. I have since tried plugging this cable into the faceplate and the results are the same, so it is the dodgy splitter that is causing the problem. I could just replace the splitter, but it sticks out quite a lot and gets hit by the sofa quite a lot, so a new faceplate would be much more durable and tidy.
If i did get the filtered faceplate then presumably i would need to install a new cable (whatever the ADSL plug uses) in place of the wire that goes upstairs. This isn't a problem, but how expensive is that cable? I'm guessing i'd need about 5m.
Cheers guys
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,102
Thanks: 443
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Registered: ‎31-08-2007

Re: Will a Filtered faceplate help with this?

Hi there,
It's not the splitter that's the problem, it's the bundle of wiring you're plugging in. I'll just post this, then come back and explain more.
riemanrez
Grafter
Posts: 46
Registered: ‎22-11-2009

Re: Will a Filtered faceplate help with this?

thanks, i'd sorta figured that all those wires couldn't be good, that's why the idea of a simple and tidy faceplate with two plugs sounded nice. Another thing i just though of was that my attenuation doubles when i split the signal. I guess this makes sense, but would the same thing happen if i fit a filtered faceplate?
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,102
Thanks: 443
Fixes: 21
Registered: ‎31-08-2007

Re: Will a Filtered faceplate help with this?

Having said what I said in my last post, this type of extension wiring is nothing but trouble.
But in any event do you not have a filter plugged in for that phone in the kitchen? If not that will be the reason for the attenuation changes and more to the point the drop in sync speed!
I'll post back with information on the best way to do this, you will not need to plug anything in, it will be wired to the back of the new plate, as you also said the sofa keep hitting there, you don't want anything sticking out.
riemanrez
Grafter
Posts: 46
Registered: ‎22-11-2009

Re: Will a Filtered faceplate help with this?

sounds good, i'll be back tommorow evening and hopefully i can do some more tests before then. What about the ADSL cable?
Community Veteran
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Registered: ‎02-02-2008

Re: Will a Filtered faceplate help with this?

Quote from: riemanrez
how expensive is that cable? I'm guessing i'd need about 5m.

Cheap as chips. But you MUST use proper CW1308 phone cable which is twisted pair and ONLY use one matched coloured pair.
No doubt Anotherone will be along to give chapter & verse in due course.
I guess you'll need to buy a socket (and mounting plate) to go on the end of the cable as well.
All available in most DIY shops/sheds.  Wink
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,102
Thanks: 443
Fixes: 21
Registered: ‎31-08-2007

Re: Will a Filtered faceplate help with this?

OK, you may as well get the following from the same place -  apart from the faceplate you've mentioned in your initial post -
you will need cable - http://www.adslnation.com/phpapps/catalog/product_reviews.php?cPath=21&products_id=96 . It's cheap enough so get a few metres spare to 1) go from your new plate upstairs to an ADSL socket for the Router and 2) go from your new plate to your kitchen to a standard BT tyoe socket for your phone.
Cable clips (3.5mm) - http://www.adslnation.com/phpapps/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=38&products_id=136
An IDC tool - http://www.adslnation.com/phpapps/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=34&products_id=93
Unfortunately ADSL Nation, don't do the secondary sockets, so -
Go to your nearest telecoms shop, B&Q, Maplins or similar store and get -
A standard BT type Secondary socket LJU3 (for the kitchen phone) similar to - http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/images/phone/LJU3_front_faceplate.jpg with back box,
An RJ11 line jack socket similar to - http://www2.multithread.co.uk/mtcshop/images/linitx.com/products/RJ11_Linejack_Socket_main.jpg for upstairs to plug your modem into.
Wiring information to follow.
riemanrez
Grafter
Posts: 46
Registered: ‎22-11-2009

Re: Will a Filtered faceplate help with this?

well as i understand it most of my existing cables will be ok. It looks pretty much like this, so is there any way to tell if it is the proper stuff (CW130Cool?
Is there anything else it could be?
I will try to make a map of my wiring so i can better explain.
Also, will the quality of the wiring to my phone affect the quality of my ADSL signal, because it's a lot of effort to replace all of the cabling into the kitchen if it's not going to change anything.
riemanrez
Grafter
Posts: 46
Registered: ‎22-11-2009

Re: Will a Filtered faceplate help with this?

ok this looks awful i know, but i made a map to show you roughly what my wiring looks like. Enjoy. Grin
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,102
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Registered: ‎31-08-2007

Re: Will a Filtered faceplate help with this?

Re the cable picture in reply #11, is that flat or round cable and is it solid core or multi strand?
As for reply #12, yes follow that ok, it's the way it's all connected up is the problem, so depending on the answer to the question, I'll tell you how to modify it.
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,102
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Registered: ‎31-08-2007

Re: Will a Filtered faceplate help with this?

To answer the question about the cabling to the kitchen, once you've got your ADSL Nation plate fitted, no it won't matter ... if you don't mind that adapter sticking out (getting clobbered by the sofa I think you said), BUT depending on the answer to the question in my previous post, there may be a solution.