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Will PlusNet be one of the named ISP's tomorrow

VileReynard
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Re: Will PlusNet be one of the named ISP's tomorrow

If I record a broadcast (by the BBC) of a concert on my DVD recorder and then transfer the disc to my PC (and save a digital representation) or perhaps transfer the DVD disc to someone else's PC etc...
Does it matter whether I perform this transfer over a piece of wire or by physically moving the disc?
Am a pirate in either case?
I do have a television licence.

"In The Beginning Was The Word, And The Word Was Aardvark."

Mav
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Re: Will PlusNet be one of the named ISP's tomorrow

Wasn't there a rule whereby any TV programs recorded had to be destroyed after 28 days?
Maybe I just dreamed it Tongue

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Midnight_Caller
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Re: Will PlusNet be one of the named ISP's tomorrow

Quote from: Mav
be destroyed after 28 days?

No, that is CCTV must be kept for 28 days!
persistability
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Re: Will PlusNet be one of the named ISP's tomorrow

Quote from: geewizz
Quote from: persistability
Indeed. Just like it's wrong to rip people off. When they charge 49c in the US (25p to you) for a song that costs 79p for users over here. In the same vain a CD that costs $10 (£5) in the US costs £10 here.

Petrol costs less in other countries. Are you suggesting that it's ok to fill your car at a petrol station and drive off without paying?

Petrol costs less in other countries due to taxation. CD's and MP3 downloads don't cost less due to taxation; that is down to profiteering by record companies in this country. You're comparing apples with oranges. And no, I'm not suggesting it's ok to do it either nor do I condone it. Just that it's important to base arguments on facts to be able to understand the root cause of a problem.
VileReynard
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Re: Will PlusNet be one of the named ISP's tomorrow

Good.
That means that any programmes I *might have* downloaded from the iPlayer onto my PC using the DRM-free version used by the "iphone interface" will be legitimate and can be kept and played and re-played until I'm sick of them.
Furthermore, I can burn said programmes to a DVD disc to watch on my television (forever).

"In The Beginning Was The Word, And The Word Was Aardvark."

The_10th
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Re: Will PlusNet be one of the named ISP's tomorrow

Quote from: persistability
Petrol costs less in other countries due to taxation. CD's and MP3 downloads don't cost less due to taxation; that is down to profiteering by record companies in this country. You're comparing apples with oranges. And no, I'm not suggesting it's ok to do it either nor do I condone it. Just that it's important to base arguments on facts to be able to understand the root cause of a problem.

Prob a bit off topic but we in Britain seem to pay more for not much if anything in return - we are a soft-touch as countries know we will grumble but just pay it unlike countries such as France for one who are much more militant in their views for better or worse. I can see that if this daft legislation takes root it will be the Brits that are the only ones actually being 'law abiding' whilst other countries laugh at us.
Maybe something has been overlooked but aren't asia and the USA the biggest file sharers but as I said, the Brits are an easy target and with a government that bites the hand that feeds it could we expect any less from our wonderful(coughs) leaders?
I am delighted that I can sometimes fill-up my car  in a country other than Britain for the same fuel but much less taxation.
godsell4
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Re: Will PlusNet be one of the named ISP's tomorrow

Quote from: axisofevil
But it's not the musician selling his music - it's a multinational multimedia corporation ...

Quite. And this should change.
As much as the music industry is not changing its business strategy to meet the way a consumer wishes to purchase/listen to music ... neither are the artists.
Artists could create/distribute CD's at pretty low cost these days. You also have to factor in the costs of making a good quality recording too, but that it possible with the equipment many musicians have in the bedrooms these days.
SW.
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3Mb FTTC
https://portal.plus.net/my.html?action=data_transfer_speed
Laser
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Re: Will PlusNet be one of the named ISP's tomorrow

I've lost count of the number of similar threads I've read over the last couple of years. Crazy  At one extreme we have the "I can pirate it if I want to" crowd, and the other is the idealistic "everyone should behave impeccably" people. And a shed load of in-between views.
As far as I can tell, none of it matters at all. The absolute overriding issue here is that the means to rip off music (and video) is cheap, easy, and massively widespread, and only a very small minority truly care whether it happens.  The whole issue of whether it is right or wrong is completely irrelevant.
The BPI and RIAA and all the others are trying to do a King Canute impersonation. The product they had, which sold so well and could be marked up so heavily, is now no longer attractive to today's market. In any other business it would be expected that the product changes to suit the new market conditions, or the price falls to keep it attractive. The recording industry, who were so keen to embrace the capitalist model of economy when it was in their favour, are no longer happy now that it has turned against them.
There has always been music "piracy" (aka copying tapes for your mates, lending a record, etc), so thinking it can be eliminated is stupid. It is now rife, however, so needs to be curbed. If a CD album was £5 instead of £20 in the high street, a decent proportion of people would be prepared to buy it for the superior quality and convenience. If there were more high quality music, mastered well, in the mainstream rather than the conservative car-radio-targeted short-term-appeal stuff that they daren't move away from, more people would "care" about the music and artists.
The market has changed. The record labels need to change with it or they will die. Simple, unavoidable.
And no, I don't do music downloads, pirated or legal. The amount of music I listen to can easily be bought in CD form from online retailers at sensible prices, and subsequently ripped at high quality to the player of my choice.

I've seen it mentioned elsewhere, but not here yet: What happens if someone gets accused of this and takes the ISP/BPI to court for libel or, in the event of cut-off, loss of business, breach of contract, etc? A DNS/IP trace is not going to hold a lot of water if a technical witness can be found to refute the whole concept.
zubel
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Re: Will PlusNet be one of the named ISP's tomorrow

It's always good to see a related story on the back of a new one, so here is:
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080724-drm-still-sucks-yahoo-music-going-dark-taking-keys-wit...
The basic gist:  A bunch of people have ponied up cash to purchase music from Yahoo, with DRM.  In this instance, I'll call these people the "Law Abiders".  Yahoo are now intending on turning off their authentication servers.  This won't affect any of the "Law Abiders" immediately, but as soon as they buy a new computer, or try to transfer their music (which they bought!) then they will be unable to listen to it.
A similar story emerged from Microsoft earlier this year, which they now say that they'll keep the authentication servers open till 2011 (oo, that's nice of them).  After then, the "Law Abiders" will simply lose access to the music they bought
Meanwhile, those people who downloaded using Bittorrent and for arguments sake I'll refer to as the "p1r4t3s!!11", have continued to enjoy the music in the privacy of their own homes.  They may even have decided to support the artists and purchased the CD of their music!
Who has been harmed by DRM?  Was it the "Law Abiders" or the "p1r4t3s!!11".  You decide...
B.
Laser
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Re: Will PlusNet be one of the named ISP's tomorrow

Barry has hit the nail on the head.
It is currently more attractive to use the illegal source than the legal when it comes to downloads, irrespective of price. (Same as when genuine DVDs come with all that anti-piracy propaganda at the start that you can't skip.) Does anyone not see where the record labels are fundamentally going wrong?  Roll_eyes
VileReynard
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Re: Will PlusNet be one of the named ISP's tomorrow

http://drm-removal.com/ sounds like it would be worth having
for those who thought they had bought some audio or video - but it turns out that it had just been leased to them.

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The_10th
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Re: Will PlusNet be one of the named ISP's tomorrow

Very true Barry Zub. I read a good while ago in a PC mag about the inability to back-up DRM signatures for legally purchased material, so like you say - if a new PC is purchased so too does the DRM have to be unless the artist kindly issues you a gratis one as a good-will gesture (like that will happen). Also, I agree that people could purchase the CD if they like the songs for instance. Given the high price of CDs compared to they actual cost and the money that actually goes to the artist the real way to deal with this is to lower the cost of the product. So much time is spent policing when a simple deterrant often solves the majority of this activity. Similar in a way to tackling absenteeism at work - all these Bradford factors blah de blah when the better way is offer a financial incentive not to be sick, to deter those who would abuse the system.
I have heard these headline grabbing quotes by software companies and such like that they lost millions of pounds due to these p1r4at3s!!11 but if these people didn't have the software the reality is that they certainly wouldn't pay hundreds of pounds in some cases to buy it.
Like I have said, I think this is the thin end of the wedge with our traffic being monitored. Hopefully this will all crash and burn and the 'free internet' age will continue. Here's hoping...
Santiago
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Re: Will PlusNet be one of the named ISP's tomorrow

Quote
The first stage of the campaign will involve hundreds of thousands of letters being sent to net users suspected of illegally sharing music.

Letters, they are going to send us letters. High tech stuff this then.
Has any one ever had a letter from an ISP before? Well I haven't and I will look forward to my first letter then.
I think the money these music companies make is obscene. They exploit their artists and rip off their customers. They need to wake up and smell the coffee.
[EDIT] Just saw this. Looks like CPW is backpedalling as fast as they can go Linky
Oldjim
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Re: Will PlusNet be one of the named ISP's tomorrow

Looks as though CPW are sticking to their previous statements (they can't be politicians).
I suspect, like all Government initiatives, it has been over hyped
itsme
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Re: Will PlusNet be one of the named ISP's tomorrow

Quote from: Santiago
I think the money these music companies make is obscene. They exploit their artists and rip off their customers. They need to wake up and smell the coffee.

I don't know where you get your information from that the music industry make obscene money. If this was true I would expect to see a string of companies going into the industry.
Even the Rolling Stones that could run and control their own label and fortunes still decide that it's in the own interest to use a record label.
Quote
Last year EMI was bought by private equity firm Terra Firma for £3.2bn. This was followed in February by the announcement of the loss of between 1,500 and 2,000 jobs.
But EMI has been buoyed in recent weeks by news that the turnover of its music division rose by 61% in the second quarter of 2008.
Pre-tax earnings were £59.2m compared with a £45.1m loss in the same period last year.

I don't believe a £120m per year profit is obscene for a record company that have international artist on their books