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Why do we need two boxes? Recommended VDSL Gigabit VOIP SIP router

Sebtomato
Grafter
Posts: 101
Registered: 21-01-2013

Why do we need two boxes? Recommended VDSL Gigabit VOIP SIP router

I have been with Be Unlimited for about 8 years now (LLU, ADSL2) and submitted my order yesterday for Plusnet Fibre.
With ADSL, we get an ADSL modem router, so only one box.
Why do we need one modem and one router with fiber? Can we get a modem/router, to save on electricity and space? This is surely not very green.
Also, if I don't like the router provided (I think similar to the initial rubbish Thompson BeBox), what is the recommendation for something else?
Ideally, I would like wireless n, 4 x gigabits ports (to save on yet another powered switch), and also SIP built-in.
Otherwise, I will end up with:
1 x BT modem (VDSL)
1 x Plusnet router
1 x gigabit switch (4 ports)
1 x Linksys SIP adapter
and my cupboard will still look like a datacentre.
Thanks!!
Seb
17 REPLIES
Superuser
Superuser
Posts: 6,781
Thanks: 862
Fixes: 55
Registered: 30-07-2007

Re: Why do we need two boxes? Recommended router

Currently neither BT(OR) or ISP's will support FTTC without using the BT Modem. That's not to say you can't use your own kit BUT you must be able to revert to the BT modem for diagnostic purposes. I believe from other forums that BT's stated position is that the EU can replace the OR modem with their own kit but such equipment will not be supported by BT (OR) or your communications provider (ISP).
That said, there are a couple ( at least! ) of devices that would support your requirements
http://www.broadbandbuyer.co.uk/Shop/ShopDetail.asp?ProductID=11597
http://www.broadbandbuyer.co.uk/Shop/ShopDetail.asp?ProductID=14700
Suarez
Grafter
Posts: 29
Registered: 12-01-2013

Re: Why do we need two boxes? Recommended router

Really sorry to thread crash, but on this...the BT engineer bring the BT modem with him for a new install, right?
ps. Sebtomato, also switching from BE after 6 years myself.
shalom2010
Grafter
Posts: 977
Registered: 28-12-2012

Re: Why do we need two boxes? Recommended router

Correct
Sebtomato
Grafter
Posts: 101
Registered: 21-01-2013

Re: Why do we need two boxes? Recommended router

Quote from: Suarez
Really sorry to thread crash, but on this...the BT engineer bring the BT modem with him for a new install, right?
ps. Sebtomato, also switching from BE after 6 years myself.

I think I have been with Be since probably 2003 so quite a long time. They also dropped their price a few times, and only paying £12 a month now for Be Unlimited. They dropped their price today to £9 a month when I requested my MAC code, but didn't change my mind, as I can't get Be Pro and a faster upload speed according to them.
Service has been very good, but they screwed up recently. For instance, when I moved from credit card payments to direct debit, they disconnected me because I didn't pay. Of course, I called them and shouted, and it came back after 2 hours and gave me that month for free. I also called them to check if their Be telephone line would support override numbers like 18185, and they couldn't really provide an answer.
The ADSL 2 speed at my local exchange has dropped significantly recently (from 16mbps to about 10), around the same time as BT started trying to sell me Infinity/fiber... Coincidence? Probably not. BT disconnected both my telephone line and ADSL for about a week when I moved to Be and they failed to do the LLU.
I can't stand BT and their anti-competitive behaviour, and also paying £15 a month for a telephone line hardly used, so I am very glad I found Plusnet.
I have recommended Be to many people in the past, but based on the last year (customer service and speed), wouldn't recommend them now.
Sebtomato
Grafter
Posts: 101
Registered: 21-01-2013

Re: Why do we need two boxes? Recommended router

Quote from: MisterW
That said, there are a couple ( at least! ) of devices that would support your requirements
http://www.broadbandbuyer.co.uk/Shop/ShopDetail.asp?ProductID=11597
http://www.broadbandbuyer.co.uk/Shop/ShopDetail.asp?ProductID=14700

Thanks for the recommendations and links.
It would seem that the Draytek Vigor 2750Vn VDSL2 would have been a good fit and not too expensive, but reviews seem to indicate that it works very poorly with Infinity 80/20...
Maybe a Draytek Vigor 2130Vn model, connected to the BT modem, would provide gigabit ports and VOIP/SIP, and cut my number of boxes from 4 to 2...
Do we need specific requirements for the router to work with the BT modem?
Community Veteran
Posts: 3,789
Registered: 08-06-2007

Re: Why do we need two boxes? Recommended router

Hilariously, one of the most recommended routers I see is actually the BT Home Hub 3, (used in conjunction with the BT supplied Fibre modem).
You can pick one up from ebay for a reasonable amount.  However, not having fibre myself (yet...) I can't personally recommend it.
B.
Sebtomato
Grafter
Posts: 101
Registered: 21-01-2013

Re: Why do we need two boxes? Recommended router

Quote from: Sebtomato
Quote from: MisterW
That said, there are a couple ( at least! ) of devices that would support your requirements
http://www.broadbandbuyer.co.uk/Shop/ShopDetail.asp?ProductID=11597
http://www.broadbandbuyer.co.uk/Shop/ShopDetail.asp?ProductID=14700

Thanks for the recommendations and links.
It would seem that the Draytek Vigor 2750Vn VDSL2 would have been a good fit and not too expensive, but reviews seem to indicate that it works very poorly with Infinity 80/20...
Maybe a Draytek Vigor 2130Vn model, connected to the BT modem, would provide gigabit ports and VOIP/SIP, and cut my number of boxes from 4 to 2... The ASUS RT-N66U seems to have also very good reviews, but no built-in SIP.
Do we need specific requirements for the router to work with the BT modem?
Superuser
Superuser
Posts: 6,781
Thanks: 862
Fixes: 55
Registered: 30-07-2007

Re: Why do we need two boxes? Recommended router

Quote
Maybe a Draytek Vigor 2130Vn model, connected to the BT modem, would provide gigabit ports and VOIP/SIP, and cut my number of boxes from 4 to 2...
Do we need specific requirements for the router to work with the BT modem?

That looks like it would be fine.
The requirement are that it must have an Ethernet WAN port with the capability of configuring a PPPoE connection. The other consideration is throughput, with ADSL it wasn't an issue, most routers could cope easily with 20Mbps, with 80/20 FTTC then potentially you need 80Mbps throughput. According to the Draytek comparison http://www.draytek.co.uk/products/comparison.html the 2130 is capable of 500Mbps through the firewall so should be fine.
Sebtomato
Grafter
Posts: 101
Registered: 21-01-2013

Re: Why do we need two boxes? Recommended router

Quote from: Barry
Hilariously, one of the most recommended routers I see is actually the BT Home Hub 3, (used in conjunction with the BT supplied Fibre modem).
You can pick one up from ebay for a reasonable amount.  However, not having fibre myself (yet...) I can't personally recommend it.
B.

Very cheap indeed (£60 from Amazon) but does not have gigabit ports nor SIP, so would not be any better for me than what Plusnet provides for free.
Community Veteran
Posts: 3,676
Thanks: 415
Fixes: 5
Registered: 05-04-2007

Re: Why do we need two boxes? Recommended router

A couple of people at work (unlike me, who can't get fibre yet Cry) use a single box Draytek VDSL router.
Don't ask me which one, I can find out when I can get in (couldn't today, but that's another story).
The one they have costs around £150. Supposed to be good from what I've heard, but not exactly cheap.
Sebtomato
Grafter
Posts: 101
Registered: 21-01-2013

Re: Why do we need two boxes? Recommended router

It would seem that the top of the range Draytek boxes work with BT infinity...sometimes.
In term of return on investment (power consumption of 1 box instead of 4), it will probably take me 10 years to have a return and pay for a single replacement box. Since all will be obsolete in 2 years anyway, no ROI.
dick:quote
flaminmoses
Grafter
Posts: 270
Registered: 09-02-2012

Re: Why do we need two boxes? Recommended router

not sure if this product is a modem/router http://www.broadbandbuyer.co.uk/Shop/Specifications.asp?ProductID=14413
dont know anything about how powerfull the chips are but it might be the next gen
from what i was reading even though At&t make a modem / router which atm has the most powerfull chip in but its still not that power full
might be worth waiting till one is mass produced that is an upgrade on whats about
Sebtomato
Grafter
Posts: 101
Registered: 21-01-2013

Re: Why do we need two boxes? Recommended VDSL Gigabit VOIP SIP router

Sorry, it looks like this is just a modem.
I am looking ideally for a single device, or two devices doing the followng:

  • 4 gigabit ports router (as my flat is completely wired) with wireless n

  • SIP/VOIP built into the router

  • VDSL modem

  • Less than £150


If I keep my current set-up and add the Plusnet boxes, I will end up with four boxes, also costing about £30 a year in electricity alone!

  • BT fibre modem

  • Plusnet router

  • Gigabit switch (Linksys)

  • VOIP/SIP adapter


itsme
Grafter
Posts: 5,924
Thanks: 1
Registered: 07-04-2007

Re: Why do we need two boxes? Recommended VDSL Gigabit VOIP SIP router

Top end of the market http://www.fritzbox.eu/en/products/FRITZBox_Fon_WLAN_7390/index.php that meet all your requirements plus more. Built in multiple SIP and DECT base station.