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Why am I only on ADSL2 and not ADSL2+?

ComplexP
Grafter
Posts: 98
Registered: 02-10-2009

Why am I only on ADSL2 and not ADSL2+?

Ok, new tack since the power output thing was a deadend.
Since joining 21CN I've only ever connected to ADSL2 and never ADSL2+ (Note DSL Type: G.992.3 annex A) .

Uptime: 1 day, 7:59:47
DSL Type: G.992.3 annex A
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 920 / 3,264
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [MB/MB] 45.89 / 798.29
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12.5 / 0.0
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 27.0 / 46.5
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 5.0 / 10.0
Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / IFTN
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 11 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 1 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Link (Remote): 0
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 1 / 0
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 0
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 379
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 182  
This could well explain why I've seen no real improvement in my downstream sync rates but the question is why? Why can I not connect to ADSL2+? I can only assume that the exchange has decided my line is not good enough to support such a service. But looking at my router stats I can't see any obvious problems except for one local loss of signal in a 36 hours period.
Could the loss of signal/ loss of framing be the problem? If it is, what does the 'local' bit mean? Does it mean that it's something within my home that's causing the problem?Huh
Thanks again.
10 REPLIES
scootie
Grafter
Posts: 4,799
Registered: 03-11-2007

Re: Why am I only on ADSL2 and not ADSL2+?

am not stalking you honest  Smiley
the DLM / MSAN whateva system does the live syncing thinking has to see tones above 255 that are useable for it to use adsl2+
i know you cant remember what your attention was on 20cn but what was your average sync rate  on 20cn?
the local just seems to be what they use for upstream and remote for downstream. but to be honest i would not read to much in to that as meaning the problem is on your upstream
whats your wiring setup ect fropmm router to master socket and any phones ect on extensions.
ComplexP
Grafter
Posts: 98
Registered: 02-10-2009

Re: Why am I only on ADSL2 and not ADSL2+?

Feel free to stalk all you want Smiley
My average sync rate was about 3.0MBits on 20CN. I'm getting about 3.2MBits now.
Interesting what you say about the tones. My bits/tones graph currently shows that the bars stop at about 200 tones.
Where have my higher tones gone?? LoL
EDIT: Internal wiring is very simple - master socket connected to filter which is connected to router and phone. No extensions.
scootie
Grafter
Posts: 4,799
Registered: 03-11-2007

Re: Why am I only on ADSL2 and not ADSL2+?

am affarid if you was syncing in the 3mb ball park there is no improvment to be had on adsl2+ products there is gap from like 2 -4.5 ish mbps where no improvment will be seen.
thoe looking at your upstream sync i would say you line is capable of syncing the same as mine and if not creeping in to the 4mb zone
ComplexP
Grafter
Posts: 98
Registered: 02-10-2009

Re: Why am I only on ADSL2 and not ADSL2+?

I suspected that this coud be the case but every check I run on my line (including speedtest.bt) says I should expect speeds of around 6-7MBits. They must simply be wrong.
Anyway, a throughput speed of 2.5MBits on downstream and 0.8MBits upstream is perfectly adaquate for gaming and surfing and watching the iplayer which is basically all I use it for.
Hopefully by the time 6MBits is required I'll have moved house (either next door to the exchange or in an area with cable!).
ComplexP
Grafter
Posts: 98
Registered: 02-10-2009

Re: Why am I only on ADSL2 and not ADSL2+?

Wow, my router just resynced and my actual throughput speed has jumped to 2.9MBits!
Handy.
scootie
Grafter
Posts: 4,799
Registered: 03-11-2007

Re: Why am I only on ADSL2 and not ADSL2+?

Best time is soon after sun rise when your SNR raises back up from night time levels.
If sync in the moring to midday i get between 3800 an 4000kbps night time it goes down to 3000-3200kbps.
if i was just lookin at your reported attention and SNR margin and asked to guess what you was syncing at i would say 4mb to 4.5mb.
But i also remember that when i hooked the 585v7 to my line it reported 47db atten where the lowest my netgear has reported is 49db but mainly sits at 50-51db depending how hard my sync rate is being pushed and wether it is in adsl or adsl2 mode
so maybe if you was to hook my netgear on to your line and see what the atten was reported as it could only be actualy 0.5 of a db better than mine
so try a sync in the morning (not to soon after sunrise give your snr chance to raise back up) for refrence in the other thread where switched from adsl2 to g.dmt (adsl) and my sync jumped from 3200 to nearly 4000kbps that high sync was gained at 10am where the low sync was gained just after dark
VileReynard
Seasoned Pro
Posts: 10,997
Thanks: 265
Fixes: 11
Registered: 01-09-2007

Re: Why am I only on ADSL2 and not ADSL2+?

You ain't got no chance. Grin
I am on a sync rate off 7.2Mbps - and it's marginal whether I can push it from ADSL2 to ADSL2+
If you think your manky telephone wires can carry signals in the 0 - 2 MHz range (that's slightly higher than medium wave on your radio), then good luck!
You will be using the same bandwidth as "upto 8Mbps" ie just 0 - 1 MHz.
Each tone is around 4kHz - so ADSL1/2 uses 256 tones, ADSL2+ uses 512 tones.
Tones with too much noise are dropped.
If you have a very stable line, ask Plusnet to have the noise margin reduced to 6dB.
Your speed will increase - but only if you can keep a connection!
With 21CN you will definitely gain on the amount you can upload, but may suffer on the amount you can download, compared with the 8Mbps product.

scootie
Grafter
Posts: 4,799
Registered: 03-11-2007

Re: Why am I only on ADSL2 and not ADSL2+?

i think only in extreame cases can PN now ask for noise margins to be reset as the DLM's only upside is that it changes nosie margins pretty quick both ways now ( cough ) thats if its not bein to quick to whack you on a banded profile thoe.
trust BTw to give with one hand and take way with the other.
to be honest i reckon the slow noise margin changes with out the fear of the band coming to get you was a better system.
remove the bands from the DLM and we have what we was aking for in the first place
VileReynard
Seasoned Pro
Posts: 10,997
Thanks: 265
Fixes: 11
Registered: 01-09-2007

Re: Why am I only on ADSL2 and not ADSL2+?

Sounds like a case for DMT then, provided that you have an appropriate router.
Plusnet reset my noise margin several times over the last 6-7 months.
The last reset to "6dB" gave me a daytime rate of about 7.5 - 8dB
So I used DMT to reduce daytime margin to about 4dB, night-time about 3dB.
Stable for the last two weeks.
Strangely enough, it appears to be slowly increasing my noise margin, whilst retaining my connection speed.
It's now at 5dB daytime. Smiley

scootie
Grafter
Posts: 4,799
Registered: 03-11-2007

Re: Why am I only on ADSL2 and not ADSL2+?

does your noise margin tweaks work as normal then as ive found its hard to drop it past 80%.
once i get past 80% it seems to do nothing i mean seting it right down at 10% i remember doing in the early days of the trail and it still only synced with a 80% reduction and if your on a banded profile it dosent work full stop