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When will Plusnet tell people that they are behind a [proxy]?

amcclean
Rising Star
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Registered: ‎30-07-2007

Re: When will Plusnet tell people that they are behind a [proxy]?

I think it's great thing that PN have put this system in place. If anything can be done to reduce this type of abuse or it's encouragment by dis-allowing access then bravo.
It's material that none of us ever wish to see anyway so if theres a system that deals with it then all the better.
Some sick people out there start there obsesions by finding things online. Others get a kick by supplying it. By breaking the chain it's helping to make a difference.
No one needs this type of sick and vile image so why are people so annoyed.
I wish there was a system to root out pictures of link:censored, news about link:censored latest .incedents etc and lot's of other things the net can do without.
I wish freedom of expression but this is common sence it's presence online of this vile stuff and it's  access needs to be stopped by whatever means it takes.
No one has the right to take, display or share these photos, the victims deserve protection. To say that restricting anyones access to it is against freedom rights is saying that it's ok to abuse kids, take their photos and share them as that's what some people want to do. MINCE. There is no excuse and NO Reason.
A
cp:green I have removed the names given in your post, as I do not believe that it is appropriate  mod:end
thehatman
Grafter
Posts: 574
Registered: ‎01-08-2007

Re: When will Plusnet tell people that they are behind a [proxy]?

Bear in mind some people who end up abusers were abused themselves. What they often need is medical or pyschological help.
"No one needs this type of sick and vile image so why are people so annoyed?"
Because a filtering system like this could be used gradually to introduce more restriction of the internet as a whole.
chillypenguin
Grafter
Posts: 4,729
Registered: ‎04-04-2007

Re: When will Plusnet tell people that they are behind a [proxy]?

mod:note
Please can we keep names out of this post, it is for the discussion of the PlusNets implementation of the IWF blacklist.
It is not for the discussion celebrity's behavior.
Jonathan
aka Chilly
amcclean
Rising Star
Posts: 1,817
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Registered: ‎30-07-2007

Re: When will Plusnet tell people that they are behind a [proxy]?

sorry.
A
VileReynard
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Re: When will Plusnet tell people that they are behind a [proxy]?

Do this IWF bunch provide a banned URL (obviously with innocent content) so that I can put it into my browser and observe the result? I'd like to know:-
a) What behaviour my browser exhibits.
b) Could I easily circumvent this blocking.

"In The Beginning Was The Word, And The Word Was Aardvark."

7up
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Re: When will Plusnet tell people that they are behind a [proxy]?

Quote from: axisofevil
b) Could I easily circumvent this blocking.

Why would you want to try?
It's a blacklist against all the sites you don't want to ever be associated with visiting.
You shouldn't even be wanting to try and overcome it.
I need a new signature... i'm bored of the old one!
VileReynard
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Re: When will Plusnet tell people that they are behind a [proxy]?

So these people aren't even serious about subjecting their methods to a test! If an innocent test URL was provided it is likely that this would be subjected to investigation by a large number of people, the vast majority of who would be keen to explain their findings.
If the IWF aren't just a bunch of amateurs, they should be keen to do this.
Security by obscurity is no security.
[Moderator's note by Jonathan (chillypenguin):  As per my earlier warning, please can you stop posting full  quotes of the preceding post. Forum Rules ]

"In The Beginning Was The Word, And The Word Was Aardvark."

thehatman
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Re: When will Plusnet tell people that they are behind a [proxy]?

Quote from: okrzynska
Quote from: axisofevil
b) Could I easily circumvent this blocking.

Why would you want to try?
It's a blacklist against all the sites you don't want to ever be associated with visiting.
You shouldn't even be wanting to try and overcome it.

At the moment it is a blacklist of sites associated with child abuse.  If it may become more widely restrictive then that's a good reason for wanting to know how to circumvent it.

VileReynard
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Re: When will Plusnet tell people that they are behind a [proxy]?

Quote from: PJ
I can at present think of at least four techniques that would, in all probability, bypass the IWF proxy- but I haven't the slightest inclination to try any of them and feel that this is best left to private IWF trials, run in collaboration with security experts.
...

Seems the security "experts" are a failure if you can think of four likely ways to circumvent the IWF. I am no security specialist and I can think of at least three bypass methods.
It seems to me that a paedophile network (who have experience in hiding their activities) could devise more unbreakable methods of bypassing the IWF.

"In The Beginning Was The Word, And The Word Was Aardvark."

jberry
Grafter
Posts: 1,886
Registered: ‎08-06-2007

Re: When will Plusnet tell people that they are behind a [proxy]?

Quote from: axisofevil
Do this IWF bunch provide a banned URL (obviously with innocent content) so that I can put it into my browser and observe the result?

In short, no.
The IWF do not do any blocking, they just provide us with a list of URL's which we then process.
We do not provide a test URL as this would be basically giving people who want to circumvent the blocking a confirmed test case to practice on. Once they crack that they can get round the block on genuine illegal content.
Neil_A
Grafter
Posts: 450
Registered: ‎04-04-2007

Re: When will Plusnet tell people that they are behind a [proxy]?

I'm surprised and a little depressed that this thread has been so long Sad
I've been aware of the good work that the IWF does for several years when I was employed by BT Wholesale, then Easynet and now PlusNet. I've met the IWF I've also met the 'Cybercrimes' Police guys to understand fully the remit and process of the CAIC blacklist. They deal with the aftermaths of terrible crimes against children and are trying to stop others viewing the evidence of these crimes.
A system such as this really only stops 'incidental and accidental' viewing of child abuse images. What I mean by that is someone might be looking at some 'normal' porn and might innocently follow a few links and stumble across a site site containing these illegal images. At that point they would have committed a crime. Someone persistently looking for these disgusting images will find a way around the system - that's just inevitable.
It is also inevitable that the system we have implemented will become mandatory for all UK ISPs at some point. As Paula has already said, we, like many other UK ISPs, have proactively implemented a system designed to protect our customers from commiting a crime by viewing these illegal images before it is mandatory.
The networks team and comms team had written a blog about this system and how it works but I took the decision not to publish it. I did this for two reasons.
1) I thought most customers would be disgusted that we hadn't had this system in place for several years already
2) I didn't want to publish details of the inner-workings in case that made it easier for someone to bypass it
Sounds like I was wrong on 1 and I hope I'm wrong on 2.
The system does not log *anything* that can identify an individual. The only reporting it can do at all is simply count the number of blocking events. It can't say what site was blocked and it casn't say who tried to access it. Also it doesn't display a 'you've been blocked' page as that in itself could be used by someone to build a list of these sites which would have considerable value on the black market.
Like Phil Webb I am proud that we block these sites. I recognise the censorship argument and agree that it would apply if we were blocking other content. But we're not, we're only blocking sites that have been reported (and confirmed) to contain child sexual abuse images. I just cannot see any reason at all why anyone has a good reason to want to view these sites unless they are intent on comitting crime.
This isn't the thin end of the wedge either. As soon as an ISP starts inspecting what is being viewed by its customers it loses the 'mere conduit' legal defence argument and would then be open to be sued for copyright infringement, defamation, libel and everything else that it's customers might do.
http://www.twobirds.com/english/publications/articles/No_defamation_liability_ISP.cfm
Anyway. Merry Christmas
jelv
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Re: When will Plusnet tell people that they are behind a [proxy]?

Neil,
I wasn't disgusted that you were not doing this blocking before - just rather surprised.
I am 110% certain that this was the right thing for you to do.
link:removed
[Moderator's note by Peter (PJ): Removed content attacking, and undermining the opinions of, other forum users]
jelv (a.k.a Spoon Whittler)
   Why I have left Plusnet (warning: long post!)   
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alisterb
Newbie
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Registered: ‎20-12-2007

Re: When will Plusnet tell people that they are behind a [proxy]?

Quote from: Neil_A
It is also inevitable that the system we have implemented will become mandatory for all UK ISPs at some point.

This is what frightens me. 
Quote
This isn't the thin end of the wedge either. As soon as an ISP starts inspecting what is being viewed by its customers it loses the 'mere conduit' legal defence argument and would then be open to be sued for copyright infringement, defamation, libel and everything else that it's customers might do.
http://www.twobirds.com/english/publications/articles/No_defamation_liability_ISP.cfm

But with this system, you don't inspect what is being viewed - just stopping us from going places - because It's For The Children.  You have no control over what is on the list, and indeed, it's heavily protected so that it can't be seen in the clear - entirely fair, as it would be unthinkable to distribute a list of the most heinous websites on the net.
Quote from: Future_Government
Heaven forbid the proles should get access to any more of these {terrorism, nuclear-technology, liberal-press, S&M-porn, Scunthorpe Tourist Board, Geocities} websites.  But it's OK, we can block them with this cleanfeed list - and if you use port 81 or a VPN to get around it - we'll make it a criminal act!

I was going to put a quote from http://www.wisdomquotes.com/cat_evil.html here, then I decided I could not choose the best quote - or five - from among them all.
alisterb
Newbie
Posts: 8
Registered: ‎20-12-2007

Re: When will Plusnet tell people that they are behind a [proxy]?

[quote="jelv"]*Quote removed by moderators*
And there's another reason.
The wonderful thing about living in the UK (as a British Citizen, or any other nationality, for that matter) is that Independent thought - disagreeing with other people, even the government - is entirely legal.
Telling everyone that cares to hear, that the Emperor has no clothes, is still optional.
[Moderator's note by Peter (PJ): Quote removed as per the above]
jelv
Seasoned Hero
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Re: When will Plusnet tell people that they are behind a [proxy]?

Just what is wrong with reminding people that are supporting the right to view highly illegal vile material showing actual child abuse that there could be other people watching this topic who may have a professional interest?
jelv (a.k.a Spoon Whittler)
   Why I have left Plusnet (warning: long post!)   
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