What to do when source of REIN doesnt want to know!

[#1]

So that leaves us with Trading Standards. I know it sounds weird but they do have powers in this area.

[#2]

So very much as I alluded to. Ofcom can see an area of telecommunications which gives rise to problems for consumers and runs away from doing anything about it. Having identified an issue Ofcom should be seeking the powers and remit to address the issue ... but chooses not to.

As far as doing anything meaningful which really helps end users, Ofcom is as much use as a chocolate tea pot and Sharon White has done nothing to deliver meaningful improvement in the industry, but has over seen burdens placed on ISPs where they are essentially powerless to effect meaningful remedies. Getting your money back, getting out of a contract without penalty ... but not getting your internet connection fixed is a hollow victory.

This needs complaints to MPs to bring about a change in legislation empowering and forcing Ofcom to act more decisively in the interests of consumers. As things stand there is no obligation on BTOR to deliver anything other than a voice service capable of supporting 56kbps.

[#3]

I don't think that the premises in question here could quite be described as a factory.

[#4]

OK it’s a spray shop attached to a campsite. I would presume that at least commercial work is going on here if the 24 lights are permanently illuminated.

My argument still stands. The spray shop is using lights that allegedly do not comply with the CE regulations. They may be old and therefore exempt but a visit (or threat thereof) of a visit from Trading Standards (that is ‘’the authorities’) might do the trick.

[#5]

@Townman

Be careful what you wish for, because Ofcom acting in the interests in consumers equates to keeping prices low and encouraging endless switching of provider.

[#6]

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@Baldrick1 wrote:

I would presume that at least commercial work is going on here if the 24 lights are permanently illuminated.

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From elsewhere

The premises are mixed business / residential & the guy is now retired but still working on his own vehicles hence the workshop still in use.

[#7]

On the tbb forum, the OP says

...it does blot out radio 5 live here...

Ah, if it's affecting radio reception, then surely action can be taken...? Er, not so fast...

Ofcom here say

The BBC is responsible for providing guidance and handling complaints on interference to domestic television and radio services.

Get help with receiving TV and radio.

Following the above link takes one to a page with a link to the

Radio and Television Investigation Service

where they blithely state

Our Limits

There are limits to the kind of assistance that can be offered. Ofcom will not accept a referral from RTIS or undertake an investigation where:

• interference only affects equipment using indoor aerials – both radio and television

• interference only affects LW/MW (AM) services

• interference only affects non-broadcast services (e.g. alarms, portable telephones, WiFi systems, Amateur Radio users)

• interference only affects non-domestic Radio and Television services, e.g. Shortwave radio service

Sadly, it seems that although @hitchhiker43 has painstakingly done the groundwork in identifying the source of interference, affecting radio reception and broadband for several households,he can expect no help from Plusnet, Ofcom, the BBC, or the RTIS.

Shameful...

[#8]

There is always Plan B  if @hitchhiker43  doesn't want to go down the enforcement route. That is to get the paintshop owner to allow @hitchhiker43  to replace all the florescent tubes for him free of charge with LED alternatives. It would cost but at leasr resolve the issue.  https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Manufacturers/LEDlite/LED_Tubes/index.html

[#9]

Has a proper REIN case been raised by BTW or OR or whoever it is nowadays?   From my reading elsewhere there's a series of steps they're supposed to take to confirm that nothing in the line itself is making it vulnerable to the interference, for example swapping D side and E side pairs, and a lift and shift at the exchange.   All leading up to an actual REIN investigation where someone with the correct type of meter reads the interference on the line and goes looking for a source with matching characteristics.

[#10]

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@aesmith wrote:

Has a proper REIN case been raised by BTW or OR or whoever it is nowadays?

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Reading through this thread - apparently not; normally it would have been.

In Reply#4 @MasterOfReality dismisses it out of hand, and in Reply#6 @Jubby isn't exactly encouraging. These responses seem to be because the OP has established the interference source, but has been rebuffed by the owner of the workshop with the problem lights. After all his efforts, it seems to me rather unfair that @hitchhiker43 is not being supported by his ISP.

If they raised a REIN case with BTOR, the engineer would eventually arrive at the workshop. I'd say that confronted by a REIN trained BTOR engineer, armed with test results obtained with the proper kit, there's at least a 50 per cent chance that the workshop owner would be more compliant.

I believe that the OP deserves no less, and should not be penalised just because he's put a lot of effort into sorting the problem himself.

[#11]

@198kHz

Whilst not wishing to detract from the sentiments expressed, to be fair @hitchhiker43 has not returned to this thread after @Jubby recommended raising a fault ticket.

It is great that the user has self-helped himself to the point of locating and verifying the source of REIN, the question remains, has a formal "fault" report been raise with BT Openreach?  Whilst we old lags have somewhat hi-jacked the topic and given vent to what we (rightly?) see as the unhelpful unwillingness of the broadband supply sector to take ownership of addressing the sources of external interference … it is not evident that the process of engaging anyone has actually been initiated.

It would be great to hear from @hitchhiker43 - did they follow the advice and raise the fault ticket?  Has BT Openreach had the chance to try to do the right thing here?  I would not be overly optimistic that they will resolve the issue, but in the absence of a fault report, I remain pessimistic that the user will see any improvement to his service and being allowed to leave Plusnet without ECTs is of no material value to him - the REIN impacts his line and will impact his line no matter who the ISP is.

What has not been explored is the micro state of the line - it is possible that the line might be improved to make it less sensitive to REIN ingress.  The elimination of the cause might not be in the gift of BTOR, but mitigation of the symptoms might be … given a chance to look!

[#12]

Or on the other hand, even if the REIN issue gets resolved somehow, it'll still be a relatively slow ADSL line and I doubt it would make much difference to what you could use if for.

Anyone who looks at that SNRM graph in the opening post might just decide that the problem is that the target SNRM was too low to start with.

[#13]

Many thanks for all the very interesting replies and I am sorry to be so slow at returning, various duties called!

Firstly the issue of the fault ticket, I seem to remember there is a charge if no fault is found and I am not about to waste money, however this issue was investigated by Openreach several years ago and having provided them with plots and shown them the limited internal re-routing I had been able to perform internally agreed to change my drop cable from fig8 to the new twin pair cable and re-route it down the gable etc so it was spaced around 200mm from the power cables traveling the same route. This work combined with my own reduced the snr drop from the interference from ~6dB to ~3dB. I think OR visited maybe 3 times and unfortunately the interference was not present on any of there visits, it can on occasion not happen for several days in a roe, other times everyday, often all day but sometimes only an hour or two. Having identified the source the pattern is now quite consistent with a retired guy occasionally doing some work in his workshop, another notable feature is he pretty much always takes 90 minutes for lunch

The issue of the standing SNR is due to my spoofing, if it were not for that we would have practically no service at all!! Operating at a nominal 3dB is quite acceptable under many circumstances but then most people do not suffer ~3dB droops in there SNR on a regular basis.

I have tried the routes of Ofcom & the BBC as this also causes radio interference but they were both hopeless, pointing at each other!! I am very interested in the trading standards route, I also had some interest a few years back from the electrical supply authorities when I thought it might be wind turbine related but they admitted they had no means of tracing a source, now that I have I might try calling them again. However life in a small village is a balance on many fronts and I don't exactly want to get heavy handed too soon.

I did indeed offer to help out finding some better lighting and making a contribution to it's installation but that offer was rebuffed. He has said he will talk to his electrician about it but then he has had a collapsed culvert under his drive for 5 years and done nothing about it despite the road flooding as a result!! So I wait and see, two link restarts this weekend most likely caused by REIN as it never drops out for any other reason but I was not actually monitoring it at the time.

I think in conclusion plusnets attitude does bother me as I think they should at least try and help there customers and if they don't know already familiarize themselves with the regulatory situation.

Again many thanks to everybody for all the useful contributions

[#14]

I think the only thing Plusnet could do is agree to send endless Openreach engineers while absorbing any charges themselves.

[#15]

If a fault is raised with Plusnet they should do a proper investigation.  As I said earlier there are a number of checks that are supposed to be carried out before assuming it's irreparable due to REIN.  Unfortunately my experience with Plusnet is that they are all too liable to try and wash their hands of a fault as soon as anyone mentions the possibility of REIN.  Has a proper copper line test even been carried out?