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What speed is reasonable to expect

fp
Grafter
Posts: 174
Registered: 04-05-2008

What speed is reasonable to expect

Since discovering the SNRM (signal to noise ratio margin) on my modem, noting it is apparently high (16db downstream, 25db upstream) and limiting my max download speed to about 5Mbps compared to >7Mbps in the past, I am wondering what it is reasonable to expect.  Or to put it another way: under what conditions can you expect close to 8Mbps.
I live about 100yds from a BT cabinet size 'green box'  and about half a mile from what I assume is the BT exchange - half bungalow size BT building surrounded a wire fence with regular coming and going of BT white vans.
(Tested several times over several days, usings two different modems plugged into test socket behind front panel, so any problem is not internal wiring.).
38 REPLIES
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,100
Thanks: 437
Fixes: 21
Registered: 31-08-2007

Re: What speed is reasonable to expect

You may be unlucky to have an intermittent connection as your (Downstream) Target SNRM looks as though it may have gone up to 15dB. You may have inadvertently contributed to the problem with the swapping.
My recommendations are when you need to swap things around for testing, powerdown your modem/router and wait several minutes for unplugging anything that disconnects it from the line eg. it's cable, the filter, master faceplate etc. Don't do this more than 5 times in an hour, and then leave it alone for the rest of the day. This is to help prevent the exchange DLM from thinking you have an intermittent line problem. My recommendations for doing a reboot are no more than 2 or 3 times in an hour then leave it alone. Especially considering your current high Target SNRM you should only do this between 9am and 3pm when noise levels are lower (SNRM higher).
If you do the following, we can offer more advice.
First please check your phone line - do you have dial tone on your line, can you hear/have you heard any crackling or other intermittent noise on the line? Dial a 1 to get rid of the dial tone. If you need more time before the NUT (number unobtainable tone) dial the quiet line test 17070 option 2. (Don't use any ringback or other test). Who is your Telephone Line Rental provider?
What Modem/Router are you using? Do you know to access your Modem/Router ADSL line stats?
If you can post both Downstream and Upstream - Sync/connection speed, Attenuation, NoiseMargin (SNRM) and Power.
Try here - http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/frogstats.php - if you need guidance for many Modem/Routers.
Can you also post the results from http://www.speedtester.bt.com/ - (you need Java Runtime Environment installed for this to work - the latest version for your OS).
Login to https://portal.plus.net/my.html?action=data_transfer_speed and advise what it says for your current profile/line speed.
Finally could you give an Outline description of your installation -
1) Do you have an NTE5 Master LineBox (the type with the removeable lower front plate) and which logo it has on it.?
2) Whether you have any fixed extension wiring and sockets & how many, and roughly how the cables go from one to another;
3) What filters do you have and where is the Modem/Router plugged in?
4) Do you have a corded phone, do you have a cordless phone - if so what type - DECT or Analogue?
5) Is any other POTS (plain old telephone service) equipment (Faxes, Answer phones, Sky boxes or Alarms systems etc) plugged in/connected.
Regards.
fp
Grafter
Posts: 174
Registered: 04-05-2008

Re: What speed is reasonable to expect

Thanks for the help.
In order.
Line is wonderfully silent line - no crackle.
Provider BT.  No choice, or it would not be :-)
Edmimax ADSL+ wireless modem/router (MIMO).
Signal to noise at end.  Representative of what I normally see - lately.
Speed test.  Cannot get to work.  (What happened to the old one.  Don't need eye candy, just a number.).
https://portal.plus.net/my.html?action=data_transfer_speed - says
Estimated line speed:
    Not recorded (service activated before we introduced estimates).
Current line speed:
    4000
1.  Box has front removable plate.  BT logo embossed at top.  (This is where I have plugged the modem, via mircofilter, to get similar results to those below.).
2, 3 and 4. Cable run - see attached pictures.  Splitter to filter to extension (stairs) to filter to modem.  Two Samsung microfilters.  One analogue wired phone.
5. Nothing else plugged in or connected, other than one corded phone and one modem/router.
Hope I answered everything sufficiently.
//----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ADSL Line Status
Status
Modem Status Showtime
Mode Selected G992_1_A
DMT Framing Mode G.DMT Framing Mode 3
Trellis-Coded Modulation Enable
Latency Type Interleave
Rate
  Downstream Upstream
Data Rate 5344 kbps 448 kbps
Maximum Attainable Data Rate(ATTNDR) 0 kbps 0 kbps
 
Information
  Downstream Upstream
Line Attenuation(LATN) 13.0 dB 11.0 dB
Signal Attenuation(SATN) 0.0 dB 0.0 dB
Signal-to-Noise Ratio Margin(SNRM) 15.5 dB 26.0 dB
Actual Aggregate Transmit Power (ACATP) 0.0 dB 0.0 dB
 
Performance
  Near End Far End
Superframe 2349473
LOS Failure 0 0
LOF Failure 0 0
LPR Failure 0 0
RFI Failure 0 0
NCD Failure 0 0
LCD Failure 0 0
CRC 1 5
RS Correction 0 0
Forward Error Correction Seconds(FECS-L) 0 0
Errored Second(ES-L) 1 1
Serverely Errored Seconds(SES-L) 0 1
Loss of Signal Seconds(LOSS-L) 0 1
Unavailable Seconds(UAS-L) 23 0
HEC Error 0 0

fp
Grafter
Posts: 174
Registered: 04-05-2008

Re: What speed is reasonable to expect

Umm.... it has just taken about 1.5 hours to get a sync.
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,100
Thanks: 437
Fixes: 21
Registered: 31-08-2007

Re: What speed is reasonable to expect

You have something radically wrong there - I was about to post that anyway - keep getting sidetracked Undecided
Quickly deal with a few other points first, BT speedtester - you have to put a dot in the box before you can enter your number, see http://community.plus.net/library/broadband/using-the-revised-bt-speedtester/
My next question was going to be - do you leave your modem/router on 24/7? I guess you turn it off - from your last reply
Why is that spliter plugged in?
The wall socket in picture 2 is an extension socket, it is the wiring to that from the master we are interested in, and do you have any more of these wall sockets around the house?
You've implied that there are two filters between the wall socket and your modem/router - is that right? Is the filter in picture 2 merely being used to convert from a BT plug to RJ11 for the extension lead to the filter that the modem/router is plugged into? How long is that lead?
Can you post the latest stats? As you took so long to sync, I'd suggest not disconnecting anything until you been able to answer the queries.
Do you have a spare modem/router or can you easily borrow one?
fp
Grafter
Posts: 174
Registered: 04-05-2008

Re: What speed is reasonable to expect

Modem/router mostly switched off.
No more wall sockets in the house.  
2m of thick extension from the BT-master socket goes into the splitter in the first picture to the telephone
and via the microfilter to the extension socket in the second picture (via about 16m of extension cable),
then via the microfilter from the extension socket  into the modem/router via 1.5m of grey RJ11 cable.  Second filter used to convert to RJ11 connector, which goes to modem.
BTW I have plugged the modem into the test socket behind the front plate of the BT-master socket and got the same result, with two different modems.
The two modems I have, MRi ADSL (old non-wireless) and Edimax Wireless modem/router, give comparable results.
Latest stats below.
I will find a Windows box to do the speed test.  I have Java installed, but the speedtest says not.  (I use a java program to connect to the internet, so know it is installed and working e.g.
//-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
fp@debian:~$ java -version
java version "1.6.0_0"
OpenJDK  Runtime Environment (build 1.6.0_0-b11)
OpenJDK 64-Bit Server VM (build 1.6.0_0-b11, mixed mode)
//-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
and java and javascript are enabled in the browser - but I guess this could be problem.
//---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ADSL Line Status
Status
Modem Status Showtime
Mode Selected G992_1_A
DMT Framing Mode G.DMT Framing Mode 3
Trellis-Coded Modulation Enable
Latency Type Interleave
 
Rate
  Downstream Upstream
Data Rate 5184 kbps 448 kbps
Maximum Attainable Data Rate(ATTNDR) 0 kbps 0 kbps
 
Information
  Downstream Upstream
Line Attenuation(LATN) 13.0 dB 11.0 dB
Signal Attenuation(SATN) 0.0 dB 0.0 dB
Signal-to-Noise Ratio Margin(SNRM) 16.0 dB 25.0 dB
Actual Aggregate Transmit Power (ACATP) 0.0 dB 0.0 dB
 
Performance
  Near End Far End
Superframe 675835
LOS Failure 0 0
LOF Failure 0 0
LPR Failure 0 0
RFI Failure 0 0
NCD Failure 0 0
LCD Failure 0 0
CRC 1 5
RS Correction 0 0
Forward Error Correction Seconds(FECS-L) 0 0
Errored Second(ES-L) 1 1
Serverely Errored Seconds(SES-L) 0 1
Loss of Signal Seconds(LOSS-L) 0 1
Unavailable Seconds(UAS-L) 26 0
HEC Error 0 0
fp
Grafter
Posts: 174
Registered: 04-05-2008

Re: What speed is reasonable to expect

Speed test results

Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test:  -provides background information.
Download  Speed
2486 Kbps
 
0 Kbps 7150 Kbps
Max Achievable Speed
Download speedachieved during the test was - 2486 Kbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speeds is 600-7150 Kbps.
Additional Information:
Your DSL Connection Rate :5184 Kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 448 Kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP Profile for your line is - 4000 Kbps

If you wish to discuss these results please contact your ISP.
If you are experiencing problems with specific applications, servers or websites please contact your ISP for assistance.
Your test has completed please close this window to exit the performance tester.
Please visit FAQ section if you are unable To understand the test results.
Plusnet Alumni (retired) orbrey
Plusnet Alumni (retired)
Posts: 10,540
Registered: 18-07-2007

Re:What speed is reasonable to expect

Like anotherone I'm a touch confused as regards the wiring, it does sound like you've got the broadband going through the phone half of one filter and then out of the rj11 on the other, unless I've misunderstood your description. Do you still get the delays in syncing when plugged into the master socket?
fp
Grafter
Posts: 174
Registered: 04-05-2008

Re: What speed is reasonable to expect

Interesting.
Working from the first picture, with the hand, assuming the top of the picture is 12 o'clock.
8:30 (by thumb) is 1.5m extension from BT master socket.
11:00 (square_ish splitter) is the extension lead to the extension socket into which the microfilter is plugged-in and from that the RJ11 to the modem/router (second picture).
14:00, samsung microfilter into which is plugged the phone.
If I do not use the microfilter, but just plug the phone into the splitter, then the modem does not work.
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,100
Thanks: 437
Fixes: 21
Registered: 31-08-2007

Re: What speed is reasonable to expect

OK that's a bit clearer now. I'm still not sure what the purpose of the spliiter that is plugged into the extension socket is!
Not an ideal setup for the following reason - the type of extension cables you are using are not twisted pair and are vulnerable to picking up interference. That said, as you are that close to the exchange I'll be surprised if that is the cause of the problems (but it might be if you have a lot of very local interference)..
Quote
BTW I have plugged the modem into the test socket behind the front plate of the BT-master socket and got the same result, with two different modems.

Question 1 - when you did this, were there any wires connected to the rear of the front-plate of the Master Line-box?
Question 2 - Did you do the tests with a microfilter plugged directly into the test socket? and each of your test routers directly into that filter? (ie. no extension leads).
You need to test like that - first with the filter that is normally used for the modem/router then with the filter you use for the phone.
In each case start the test with no phone plugged into the filter, then monitor the stats and see whether any figures change when you plug your phone into the filter you are using.
Even if you tested like that, I'd like to see the ADSL line stats for your usual router plugged in directly like that, and same for one of your other modem/routers.
fp
Grafter
Posts: 174
Registered: 04-05-2008

Re: What speed is reasonable to expect

Q1.  No
Q2.  Yes.
Result to follow, obviously in consecutive posts.
Front panel of master socket removed.  Modem plugged into test socket.
Edimax modem/router.  Microfilter 1.
ADSL Line Status
Status
Modem Status Showtime
Mode Selected G992_1_A
DMT Framing Mode G.DMT Framing Mode 3
Trellis-Coded Modulation Enable
Latency Type Interleave
 
Rate
  Downstream Upstream
Data Rate 5312 kbps 448 kbps
Maximum Attainable Data Rate(ATTNDR) 0 kbps 0 kbps
 
Information
  Downstream Upstream
Line Attenuation(LATN) 13.0 dB 11.0 dB
Signal Attenuation(SATN) 0.0 dB 0.0 dB
Signal-to-Noise Ratio Margin(SNRM) 15.5 dB 25.0 dB
Actual Aggregate Transmit Power (ACATP) 0.0 dB 0.0 dB
 
Performance
  Near End Far End
Superframe 11583
LOS Failure 0 0
LOF Failure 0 0
LPR Failure 0 0
RFI Failure 0 0
NCD Failure 0 0
LCD Failure 0 0
CRC 1 5
RS Correction 0 0
Forward Error Correction Seconds(FECS-L) 0 0
Errored Second(ES-L) 1 1
Serverely Errored Seconds(SES-L) 0 1
Loss of Signal Seconds(LOSS-L) 0 1
Unavailable Seconds(UAS-L) 27 0
HEC Error 0 0
fp
Grafter
Posts: 174
Registered: 04-05-2008

Re: What speed is reasonable to expect

Edimax modem/router.  Microfilter 2.
ADSL Line Status
Status
Modem Status Showtime
Mode Selected G992_1_A
DMT Framing Mode G.DMT Framing Mode 3
Trellis-Coded Modulation Enable
Latency Type Interleave
 
Rate
  Downstream Upstream
Data Rate 5280 kbps 448 kbps
Maximum Attainable Data Rate(ATTNDR) 0 kbps 0 kbps
 
Information
  Downstream Upstream
Line Attenuation(LATN) 12.5 dB 11.0 dB
Signal Attenuation(SATN) 0.0 dB 0.0 dB
Signal-to-Noise Ratio Margin(SNRM) 16.0 dB 25.0 dB
Actual Aggregate Transmit Power (ACATP) 0.0 dB 0.0 dB
 
Performance
  Near End Far End
Superframe 6342
LOS Failure 0 0
LOF Failure 0 0
LPR Failure 0 0
RFI Failure 0 0
NCD Failure 0 0
LCD Failure 0 0
CRC 1 5
RS Correction 0 0
Forward Error Correction Seconds(FECS-L) 0 0
Errored Second(ES-L) 1 1
Serverely Errored Seconds(SES-L) 0 1
Loss of Signal Seconds(LOSS-L) 0 1
Unavailable Seconds(UAS-L) 22 0
HEC Error 0 0
fp
Grafter
Posts: 174
Registered: 04-05-2008

Re: What speed is reasonable to expect

Mri modem.  Mircofilter 1.
DSL Parameter
DSL Parameters and Status
Vendor ID: 00B5GSPN
Revision Number: T93.3.23
Serial Number: 123456789abcdx
Local Tx Power: 0.0 dB
Remote Tx Power: 0.0 dB
Local Line Atten.: 30.0 dB
Remote Line Atten.: 10.0 dB
Local SNR Margin: 14.0 dB
Remote SNR Margin: 22.0 dB
Self Test: Passed
DSL Standard: G.dmt
Trellis Coding: Disable
Framing Structure: Framing-3

Config Data Up Down
Intrlvd Fast  Intrlvd Fast 
AS0(kbps): - - 4928 0
AS1(kbps): - - 0 0
LS0(kbps): 448 0 - -
LS1(kbps): 0 0 - -
RValue: 16 0 14 0
SValue: 8 1
DValue: 2 16
fp
Grafter
Posts: 174
Registered: 04-05-2008

Re: What speed is reasonable to expect

And finally.
Mri Modem.  Microfilter 2.

DSL Parameter
DSL Parameters and Status
Vendor ID: 00B5GSPN
Revision Number: T93.3.23
Serial Number: 123456789abcdx
Local Tx Power: 11.95 dB
Remote Tx Power: 19.57 dB
Local Line Atten.: 30.0 dB
Remote Line Atten.: 10.0 dB
Local SNR Margin: 14.5 dB
Remote SNR Margin: 18.0 dB
Self Test: Passed
DSL Standard: G.dmt
Trellis Coding: Disable
Framing Structure: Framing-3

Config Data Up Down
Intrlvd Fast  Intrlvd Fast 
AS0(kbps): - - 4928 0
AS1(kbps): - - 0 0
LS0(kbps): 448 0 - -
LS1(kbps): 0 0 - -
RValue: 16 0 14 0
SValue: 8 1
DValue: 2 16
       
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,100
Thanks: 437
Fixes: 21
Registered: 31-08-2007

Re: What speed is reasonable to expect

Ah good, well not so good.
I was of the opinion there was a bit of inconsistency in some of the figures and the difference between the 2 modems confirms that - specifically on the attenuation figures. If you are not as close to the exchange as might have appeared from the first modem, then your slower speed than might be expected may be solely due to the high Target SNRM.
I think the only way to resolve is is to try and borrow a third known good modem/router and see which of the results that compares to, and if necessary proceed to sort out your SNRM issue. If you haven't got another or can't borrow one (from a friend perhaps), PN can probably arrange a loan one for you.