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Weather and Broadband Speed

Caerefail
Rising Star
Posts: 91
Thanks: 8
Fixes: 2
Registered: ‎07-09-2015

Weather and Broadband Speed

Hello everyone,
This is my first post so please be gentle with me  Smiley. I joined Plusnet on 16 September, advised line speed was 2.5Mb but in fact it seemed to settle at around 4.5 Mb.
I live out in the sticks in Wales, about 3.8 to 4 kilometers from the exchange, mainly fed by overhead line. Last night and this morning are very wet and windy and for the first time since the initial 10 day training period the line re-synced overnight and my IP Profile has dropped from 5.39 to 4.57  Sad. This is reflected by a drop in my download speed, from 4.8 to 4.4. I'm not complaining - with my previous provider I was lucky to get 1Mb - but I was just wondering if the change in the weather would be enough to cause this and would DLM react that fast to one re-sync? By the way, router is Plusnet's Sagecom 2704N so not the nicest to get stats from.
14 REPLIES
Community Veteran
Posts: 484
Thanks: 39
Fixes: 2
Registered: ‎26-09-2015

Re: Weather and Broadband Speed

I've lived in houses where the synch speed dropped during wet weather.  It seemed to recover pretty quick, but possibly the DLM and profile side might vary between ISPs (we weren't with Plusnet at that stage).
Caerefail
Rising Star
Posts: 91
Thanks: 8
Fixes: 2
Registered: ‎07-09-2015

Re: Weather and Broadband Speed

Hello again,
Well, as expected, line remained stable after resyncing but no change was showing on profile. As I'd given it 5 days, I did a graceful disconnect and rebooted my router in the middle of the day. It came back up with the following stats and profile, after leaving it an hour:
Uptime: 0D 1H 17M 8S
Mode: ADSL_G.dmt
Traffic Type: ATM
Status: Up
Link Power State: L0

Downstream Upstream
Line Coding(Trellis): On On
SNR Margin (1 dB): 6.1 11.0
Attenuation (1 dB): 49.0 31.0
Output Power (1 dBm): 20.0 12.3
Attainable Rate (Kbps): 6960 1044

Path 0 Path 1
Downstream Upstream Downstream Upstream
Rate (Kbps): 6496 864 0 0

K (number of bytes in DMT frame): 204 28 0 0
R (number of check bytes in RS code word): 16 16 0 0
S (RS code word size in DMT frame): 1.00 8.00 0.0 0.0
D (interleaver depth): 32 4 0 0
Delay (msec): 8.00 8.00 0.0 0.0
INP (DMT symbol): 1.16 0.09 0.0 0.0

Super Frames: 273759 273759 0 0
Super Frame Errors: 11 0 0 0
RS Words: 18615578 2328745 0 0
RS Correctable Errors: 191860 31 0 0
RS Uncorrectable Errors: 32 0 0 0

HEC Errors: 29 0 0 0
OCD Errors: 0 0 0 0
LCD Errors: 0 0 0 0
Total Cells: 71302197 0 0 0
Data Cells: 1237962 0 0 0
Bit Errors: 0 0 0 0
Total ES: 10 0
Total SES: 0 0
Total UAS: 42 42
BT speed test gave the following:
Download speed 4.26 Mbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speeds 2 Mbps-7.15 Mbps.
IP Profile for your line is - 5.73 Mbps
Upload speed 0.74Mbps
Additional Information:
Upstream Rate IP profile on your line is - 0.83 Mbps
Given the state of the line to us from the exchange, I thought the SNR looked too low for the connection to last and, lo and behold, the line dropped at around 7:30pm last night (29 Oct). I reset the stats on the router once I noticed and these are the figures from this morning:
6 - Uptime: 0 days 14:10:33
Mode: ADSL_G.dmt
Traffic Type: ATM
Status: Up
Link Power State: L0

Downstream Upstream
Line Coding(Trellis): On On
SNR Margin (1 dB): 8.0 10.0
Attenuation (1 dB): 48.5 30.5
Output Power (1 dBm): 19.9 12.3
Attainable Rate (Kbps): 6284 1072

Path 0 Path 1
Downstream Upstream Downstream Upstream
Rate (Kbps): 5472 896 0 0

K (number of bytes in DMT frame): 172 29 0 0
R (number of check bytes in RS code word): 14 16 0 0
S (RS code word size in DMT frame): 1.00 8.00 0.0 0.0
D (interleaver depth): 32 4 0 0
Delay (msec): 8.00 8.00 0.0 0.0
INP (DMT symbol): 1.20 0.09 0.0 0.0

Super Frames: 2937375 2937375 0 0
Super Frame Errors: 495 56 0 0
RS Words: 199741500 24993757 0 0
RS Correctable Errors: 1736965 109 0 0
RS Uncorrectable Errors: 1755 0 0 0

HEC Errors: 1011 49 0 0
OCD Errors: 0 0 0 0
LCD Errors: 0 0 0 0
Total Cells: 644447385 0 0 0
Data Cells: 6801047 0 0 0
Bit Errors: 0 0 0 0

Total ES: 503 0
Total SES: 0 0
Total UAS: 0 0
This looks as if it is likely to be more sustainable, although the ES rate still looks a bit high, but can someone please tell me why my download speed has dropped to 4.25Mb with the following profile?
Best Effort Test:  -provides background information.
Download  Speed
4.25 Mbps
Download speed achieved during the test was - 4.25 Mbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speeds  is 2 Mbps-7.15 Mbps.
IP Profile for your line is - 4.83 Mbps
2. Upstream Test:  -provides background information.
Upload Speed
0.76 Mbps
Upload speed  achieved during the test was - 0.76Mbps
Additional Information:
Upstream Rate IP profile on your line is - 0.83 Mbps
My Plusnet line speed matches the BT IP Profile so shouldn't I be getting a better download than 4.25Mb? Before the bad weather I was getting a relatively consistent 4.6Mb with an IP Profile of 4.97 (lasted over 10 days). I know it doesn't seem like much, but when your speeds are low, every bit matters.
Thanks in advance for any help you can give.
Community Veteran
Posts: 5,177
Thanks: 480
Fixes: 20
Registered: ‎10-06-2010

Re: Weather and Broadband Speed

Why are you on ADSL1? You must be on 21CN with ADSL2/2+ available, you've already got an uncapped upstream, it's a long line but not excessively long. Perhaps the low speed estimate was the reason Plusnet put you on ADSL1.
Caerefail
Rising Star
Posts: 91
Thanks: 8
Fixes: 2
Registered: ‎07-09-2015

Re: Weather and Broadband Speed

No idea, I left that to Plusnet. Only moved to them in September anyway, and after getting 0.5 Mb to 1.5 Mb from my previous ISP,  4.25Mb is fantastic! Would just like it back to around 4.6Mb  Sad
Community Veteran
Posts: 5,177
Thanks: 480
Fixes: 20
Registered: ‎10-06-2010

Re: Weather and Broadband Speed

Sometimes what happens is that the Plusnet Current Line Speed updates, so that it's showing the correct value here, but your "PPP" session never disconnected, and the new profile isn't actually in use. In that case, all you need to do is login to the router, click the disconnect button, then a few seconds later click the connect button.
Caerefail
Rising Star
Posts: 91
Thanks: 8
Fixes: 2
Registered: ‎07-09-2015

Re: Weather and Broadband Speed

Bingo! Thanks ejs, did just that and results are:
1. Best Effort Test: -provides background information.
Download  Speed
4.85 Mbps

0 Mbps 7.15 Mbps
Max Achievable Speed
Download speedachieved during the test was - 4.85 Mbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speeds is 2 Mbps-7.15 Mbps.
IP Profile for your line is - 4.83 Mbps
2. Upstream Test: -provides background information.
Upload Speed
0.77 Mbps

0 Mbps 0.83 Mbps
Max Achievable Speed
Upload speed achieved during the test was - 0.77Mbps
Additional Information:
Upstream Rate IP profile on your line is - 0.83 Mbps
I hadn't thought of doing that because of the reconnect yesterday and DLM but it looks as if it was just what was needed. Smiley
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,101
Thanks: 443
Fixes: 21
Registered: ‎31-08-2007

Re: Weather and Broadband Speed

Hi Caerefail.
To answer your initial question, a change in the weather should NOT cause your connection to drop BUT it can - when there is a fault somewhere, often intermittent.
Whenever you have a change in sync speed (on 21CN equipment) your IP Profile will change - that's not DLM. DLM action would be to raise the Target SNRM or Band the Speed if it sees too many drops or errors.
It's worth saying that based on the sets of stats that you've posted, your line isn't doing too badly at all really and the errors are quite good in the first set of stats, but not so good in the second (if the line 6 uptime is the same as the DSL uptime).
I noted in another thread you mentioned in passing that you had a noisy line. Is this an audible noise?
The problem with longer lines especially overhead ones, even in beautiful rural Wales, is they can suffer increased noise levels between dusk and dawn due to the increased MW/AM propagation. Your line is probably suffering that, but noise levels can be affected more if you have an intermittent fault.They can also be affected by poor quality cable/wiring so it might be worth asking a few question about all that if you want to pursue this.
Caerefail
Rising Star
Posts: 91
Thanks: 8
Fixes: 2
Registered: ‎07-09-2015

Re: Weather and Broadband Speed

Hi Anotherone
Thanks for your response. The first set of stats were from a re-boot that I did in the middle of the day following 5 days stable connection. They do look good don’t they? However, I’ve noticed that if the SNR Margin in the middle of the day is anything much below 7dB, the line will drop at night as the SNR drops too low to cope with the “noise”. That’s what happened in this case and the second set of stats are from the morning after the line re-synced that night but not including the stats that caused the re-sync as I reset the stats on the router – if you can follow me!
When I say the line is ‘noisy’, it’s MW/AM noise and something else that causes spikes – telephone quiet line test is just that – very quiet. The line is overhead, has a number of joints in it and feeds our house from a pole which also includes a street light and power connection! Not ideal  Smiley
Internal wiring has just been overhauled, prior to switching to Plusnet, bell wire was disconnected and router is plugged into the master socket which has a filtered faceplate, just installed. My previous router was a Billion 7700n and I reckon from monitoring that using RSL that I’ve gained about 4dB from the changes!
I suspect that there is an intermittent fault on the line – water getting into a joint or something given the line stats from the bad weather period (which I didn’t keep!) but as my speed has increased from around 0.5Mb in the evening with the previous ISP to a reasonably reliable 4.5Mb now, I’m quite happy - although more would be nice.
Stats for the 24hr period to 9 am this morning are below:
Mode: ADSL_G.dmt
Traffic Type: ATM
Status: Up
Link Power State: L0

Downstream Upstream
Line Coding(Trellis): On On
SNR Margin (1 dB): 7.8 10.0
Attenuation (1 dB): 48.5 30.5
Output Power (1 dBm): 19.9 12.3
Attainable Rate (Kbps): 6232 1072

Path 0 Path 1
Downstream Upstream Downstream
Rate (Kbps): 5472 896 0

K (number of bytes in DMT frame): 172 29 0
R (number of check bytes in RS code word): 14 16 0
S (RS code word size in DMT frame): 1.00 8.00 0.0
D (interleaver depth): 32 4 0
Delay (msec): 8.00 8.00 0.0
INP (DMT symbol): 1.20 0.09 0.0

Super Frames: 5109933 5109933 0
Super Frame Errors: 425 59 0
RS Words: 347475444 43480500 0
RS Correctable Errors: 2990539 660 0
RS Uncorrectable Errors: 3800 0 0

HEC Errors: 3141 40 0
OCD Errors: 0 0 0
LCD Errors: 0 0 0
Total Cells: 1121096629 0 0
Data Cells: 50364127 0 0
Bit Errors: 0 0 0

Total ES: 289 0
Total SES: 0 0
Total UAS: 0 0
Errors still higher than I'd like but the line is hanging on so.....
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,101
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Registered: ‎31-08-2007

Re: Weather and Broadband Speed

OK, sounds like you are doing all the right things. Is that filtered faceplate one of the SSFP vDSL plates, perhaps a Mk3? - with luck Wink
The other questions would be - extension wiring - what colour are the wires on terminals 2 & 5 - are they Blue+white trace and White+blue trace?
What's the incoming drop wire like, is it black, round about 5.3mm in diameter and using an Orange wire and a White wire for the incoming A & B terminals, or is it a flat cable, some are black and quite wide - probably around 5mm, some are grey and narrow - both wires running parallel?
Caerefail
Rising Star
Posts: 91
Thanks: 8
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Registered: ‎07-09-2015

Re: Weather and Broadband Speed

Faceplate is the XTE-2005 from adslnation, fitted by hubby (ex BT engineer). Extension wires on terminals 2 & 5 are as you say - Blue+white trace and White+blue trace. Incoming drop is round, black, about 5mm (I didn't take my micrometer up  Wink), comes into the attic  Sad to a NTE5 master socket. I've not checked on the A & B terminal connections as I didn't want to drop the connection but from what I recall when we fitted the faceplate, it was orange wire and white wire. And router is connected directly to this master socket using a RJ11 DSL cable, 15m long. It was either that, or use the extension socket and I thought it would be better to use a good quality direct cable to reduce interference internally - we've 5 extension sockets! RSL showed very little noise on the line using this setup during the day - night is a different matter!
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,101
Thanks: 443
Fixes: 21
Registered: ‎31-08-2007

Re: Weather and Broadband Speed

I quite understand about the micrometer Grin  but all sounds good from the drop-wire point of view so no need to look.
If all the internal wiring is twisted pair CW1308, Blue+white trace & White+blue trace to terminals 2 & 5 and terminal 3 disconnected through-out, it should have been OK to use an extension socket. You probably can't at present without altering the connections at the XTE-2005/Master socket and you'd have to use plug in filters, but there are other possibilities (I'll drop you a PM in a while).
But, now the 15m RJ11 DSL extension cable could be an issue if it's not a twisted pair type. I'm afraid there are too many about that aren't and to make it worse they are described as "high-speed". If you aren't certain what it is, is it round or flat cross-section, do you know where it came from and may be a link to the type?
Caerefail
Rising Star
Posts: 91
Thanks: 8
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Registered: ‎07-09-2015

Re: Weather and Broadband Speed

Cable was from Tandy - it's round and twisted pair, same standard as internal phone cable. We had fun installing the faceplate - we've retained an old corded phone in the bedroom in case of power cuts etc and it's so old, removing the bell wire stopped it ringing from the extension it was on Cheesy so we had to work round that by running it directly from the master socket! Other phones in the house are modern cordless so no problem. I really don't think that data and voice on the same wires works very well  Sad
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,101
Thanks: 443
Fixes: 21
Registered: ‎31-08-2007

Re: Weather and Broadband Speed

The quick work around for phones that need a bell wire is to plug them into a filter and then filter into the socket. Filters generate there own local filtered bellwire! Data and voice on the same wires of the right standard should work fine, after all that how it arrives at your house from the exchange (or Cab for FTTC) Wink
Where is your preferred location for the modem/router in relation to the extension socket order (and come to that the corded bedroom phone)?
Caerefail
Rising Star
Posts: 91
Thanks: 8
Fixes: 2
Registered: ‎07-09-2015

Re: Weather and Broadband Speed

Thanks for the tip re the bellwire Smiley
Yes, sorry, I wasn't very clear - what I meant about data and voice was the issue of getting it to the house - what's acceptable for voice doesn't necessarily translate to the best for data  Wink We're on 'cab 1' - the cab is actually at the exchange, about 3.7 km away! And please don't get me started on Superfast Broadband and FTTC  Angry
We've never been able to figure out the order of the extension sockets as all the wiring was done when the house was built (before we bought it) and the wiring is buried in the walls and under floors so we can't trace it back. I'd guess our bedroom extension is the first as it is closest to the master socket but it may also be the extension in the spare bedroom downstairs as that's directly below. Other extensions are in the lounge - under the master bedroom and then the hall where the computer and router are, so I'd guess that the hall is the 'last' extension - but these are only guesses. Sorry can't be more helpful Sad