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Using ADSL router with FIbre

booji
Dabbler
Posts: 23
Registered: 26-02-2013

Using ADSL router with FIbre

I know this is an odd question but can you do this.
I have recently got FTTC installed but my line speed is a lot less then expected. If you can answer a few questions I would appreciate it.

1/ I have had a line test done with plusnet, ie errored second etc. Do the tests just work to the cabinet of do they go all way to the BT modem.
2/ Can you plug an ADSL2+ router into your FTTC socket and wil it work in ADSL mode. I ve been told this will work but obviously at ADSL speeds. Will I have to set my router to PPPOE to do this?
The reason why I want to do this is I've had problems from the cabinet to my home before (i suspect RFI) and I can see it with an ADSL router.
15 REPLIES
ctech500
Grafter
Posts: 255
Registered: 06-08-2007

Re: Using ADSL router with FIbre

In short no you can not because FTTC is VDSL2 and not ADSL2
Bright
Grafter
Posts: 363
Registered: 02-02-2013

Re: Using ADSL router with FIbre

1/ The BT modem is in the cabinet! Was this test done by the BTOR engineer when your FTTC was installed? If so, I suspect the test you're referring to would have been of the copper section of your broadband line, from your house to the cabinet (the broadband link then transfers on to fibre from the cabinet back to the exchange and onwards to Plusnet, but your phone line continues as copper wires from the cabinet back to the exchange).
Have you carried out a speed test using the BTW speed tester? If you click the Further Diagnostics button after the first test stage and complete the second stage you will see your BT IP profile. For the downlink, this value should be 0.9679 of your actual VDSL sync speed.
And finally, if you want to check your VDSL line stats, your only options at the moment seem to be either to buy a router with a built-in VDSL modem (there aren't many - mainly Draytek and Fritz!box), or buy an unlocked Huawei VDSL modem from eBay (the v1 modem used by BTOR), or if you have the Huawei version, you can hack it.
booji
Dabbler
Posts: 23
Registered: 26-02-2013

Re: Using ADSL router with FIbre

Cheers for the info.

I wasn't sure if the Cabinet equipment could handle ADSL as well as VDSL hance my query.
The reason I'm trying  do this is that since going on to FFTC my sync speed is a lot less than expected. I suspect the problem lies with the link from my premises to the cabinet as this has been a problem in the past (not that BT did anthing about it at the time)
At least I could get line stats with my old Netgear router.
What's the betting I get fobbed off by the BT engineer again when he visits
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,101
Thanks: 443
Fixes: 21
Registered: 31-08-2007

Re: Using ADSL router with FIbre

Any remote Broadband tests on your Fibre connection go all the way to your Modem at home from the DSLAM in the cabinet.
The title of your post is misleading by the way, because you were actually talking about an ADSL(2+) Modem/Router. You can actually use any Router of your choice on Fibre, but you need to use a vDSL Modem - note the distinction. The DSLAM in the Cabinet will not like an ADSL modem connected to it!
When your Fibre was "installed" the engineer should have carried out a series of tests which would include the Copper all the way to the exchange.
As has already been mentioned, use the Diagnostic part of the BTw Speedtest to monitor your IP Profile which should be constant. And rebooting the BT Modem is not recommended either unless absolutely necessary.
Hacking the Modem is not recommended unless you really know what you are doing. Best to buy one off eBay as has been suggested when you can play with the firmware on that. Bricking the BT one is likely to land you with a large Bill!
vDSL stats are quite hairy, not simple like ADSL, you should really do some reading around before even thinking about doing anything, OK if you have the technical ability.
HTH.
ctech500
Grafter
Posts: 255
Registered: 06-08-2007

Re: Using ADSL router with FIbre

Quote from: Anotherone

The title of your post is misleading by the way, because you were actually talking about an ADSL(2+) Modem/Router. You can actually use any Router of your choice on Fibre, but you need to use a vDSL Modem - note the distinction. The DSLAM in the Cabinet will not like an ADSL modem connected to it.

I think it a little unfair to say that the OPs title is misleading, What they wanted to try was clear to me.
I was also under the impression that any router had to be capable of PPOE to handle fibre (ie a cable router).
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,101
Thanks: 443
Fixes: 21
Registered: 31-08-2007

Re: Using ADSL router with FIbre

Sorry I wasn't intending to appear unfair, just to be clear for those less well informed  Roll eyes Not everyone appreciates or understands the difference.
And a lot of Modem/routers are capable of being set up as switches with PPPoE, ok there will be some that can't be, and you lose a LAN port if they don't have a WAN port
PeeGee
Aspiring Pro
Posts: 1,098
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Registered: 05-04-2009

Re: Using ADSL router with FIbre

Now, I definitely have a problem  Wink Should it not be "a lot of Modem/routers are capable of being set up with the modem disabled and the router WAN interface available at a connector" or something that explains that better Huh
All multiport modem/routers contain a switch that can be used without any configuration needed (though the usage described may require a managed switch) Wink
Plusnet Fibre (Sep 2014), Essentials (Feb 2013); ADSL (Apr 2009); Customer since Jan 2004 (on 28kb dial-up)
Using a TP-Link TD-W9980 modem-router.
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,101
Thanks: 443
Fixes: 21
Registered: 31-08-2007

Re: Using ADSL router with FIbre

Very true, but as that wasn't really what the OP's post was about, I didn't go into any depth, it was really a response to the previous comment (and he obviously knows).
booji
Dabbler
Posts: 23
Registered: 26-02-2013

Re: Using ADSL router with FIbre

Quote
Any remote Broadband tests on your Fibre connection go all the way to your Modem at home from the DSLAM in the cabinet.


The reason for this question is that with ADSL ISP's  where not able to detect errors occurring from the cabinet to the modem. I had high CRC errors on my old ADSL that were generated  at the D stage and could only be identified when an engineer tested the line from my home to the cabinet. Since BT now own the modem I wondered if they can put my modem into a diagnostic mode to test the link from my home to the cab. If you seem to think they can now identify this then at least when my line goes flakey again (has done 2 times in 3 years) It will be easier to identify.
Quote
The title of your post is misleading by the way

Really? everyone who replied seemed to know what I was saying, I didn't want to make my query too technical.
Quote
because you were actually talking about an ADSL(2+) Modem/Router. You can actually use any Router of your choice on Fibre, but you need to use a vDSL Modem - note the distinction.

Yes I Know my old "router" has an ADSL (2+) modem as well as router and PPP login part to it.  When I ordered fibre I must admit I thought I'd get a Router/vDSL modem. I didn't know that BT supplied the modem seperately  (step backwards to Speedtouch USB IMO). I  worked out that a modem was needed as soon as the Plusnet router arrived with RJ45 sockets and no RG11 to be seen. Now I need 2 boxes eating into my electricity bill and 3 Boxes if I need a wired gigabit Ethernet.
Quote
The DSLAM in the Cabinet will not like an ADSL modem connected to it.

And that's the only part of my question I needed to answer too, as I wasn't sure in the DSLAM in the cab could was multicompatable with ADSL as well as VDSL. The answer was pretty much answered from the first reply.
Quote
Sorry I wasn't intending to appear unfair, just to be clear for those less well informed   Not everyone appreciates or understands the difference.

I am new to fibre so that's why my initial question was a quick and simple one, I didn't expect the thread to get into a technical discussion on the perceived depth of my knowledge.
Quote
Hacking the Modem is not recommended unless you really know what you are doing. Best to buy one off eBay as has been suggested when you can play with the firmware on that. Bricking the BT one is likely to land you with a large Bill!
vDSL stats are quite hairy, not simple like ADSL, you should really do some reading around before even thinking about doing anything, OK if you have the technical ability.


Well I had no problems with telneting into my trusty netgear DG834G to set the SNR and get router stats. Even simpler when the Routerstats program did all the work. DGTeam did some pretty good work with the firmware too.
Currently got a CPI modem and about to get a Huawei one from fleabay.  If I need any help  then I will definitely ask. Wink
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,101
Thanks: 443
Fixes: 21
Registered: 31-08-2007

Re: Using ADSL router with FIbre

You need to remember that this is a publicly viewable forum and that not everyone reading it will have the depth of technical knowledge that it now appears that you have. It was the poor wording of the title in relation to the content of your initial post that implied maybe your knowledge was limited, not what you actually wanted to know. And as I said previously, the explanation was given for anyone not aware of the distinction.
Quote from: booji
The reason for this question is that with ADSL ISP's  where not able to detect errors occurring from the cabinet to the modem. I had high CRC errors on my old ADSL that were generated  at the D stage and could only be identified when an engineer tested the line from my home to the cabinet.

And the answer is fairly straight forward. With ADSL the equipment (DSLAM or MSAN depending on the technology) is in the exchange. The Cabinet is nothing more than a connector box. So Remote testing can only work from Exchange to End User. With Fibre having the equipment in the Cab, Remote testing is from Cab to End User.
booji
Dabbler
Posts: 23
Registered: 26-02-2013

Re: Using ADSL router with FIbre

On reflection the intital question was a little simplistic
my last comment
Quote
The reason for this question is that with ADSL ISP's  where not able to detect errors occurring from the cabinet to the modem. I had high CRC errors on my old ADSL that were generated  at the D stage and could only be identified when an engineer tested the line from my home to the cabinet. Since BT now own the modem I wondered if they can put my modem into a diagnostic mode to test the link from my home to the cab. If you seem to think they can now identify this then at least when my line goes flakey again (has done 2 times in 3 years) It will be easier to identify.

needs no answer since it implies that the cabinet is, as you say,  nothing more than a connector box, yet you still seem to give an answer even tough you earlier confirmed that diagnostics could be done to the end user. I was mearly stating the reason for asking the question in the first place.
Quote
And the answer is fairly straight forward. With ADSL the equipment (DSLAM or MSAN depending on the technology) is in the exchange. The Cabinet is nothing more than a connector box. So Remote testing can only work from Exchange to End User. With Fibre having the equipment in the Cab, Remote testing is from Cab to End User.

I apreciate you are answering questions so others can understand but I fail to see why you need to answer the same question twice, especially when I didn't even ask the question again. It's a fine line between being helpful and patronising....

sheesh, I only asked a few questions Roll eyes.

Community Veteran
Posts: 19,101
Thanks: 443
Fixes: 21
Registered: 31-08-2007

Re: Using ADSL router with FIbre

So that it clear to the uninitiated. Stop nit-picking  Roll eyes
booji
Dabbler
Posts: 23
Registered: 26-02-2013

Re: Using ADSL router with FIbre

Pipe of peace time
It seems that maybe we have got on the wrong foot. probably best for all, including me, to acknowledge that maybe I should have not jumped to some conclusions but it swings both ways.
Anyway, my huawei modem should arrive by he end of the week so I will install it and see if I get a better sync rate. I need some info on the way DLM works on fibre.  I have read a few threads on this forum on DRM but a lot of it seems to conflict and I  have not been able to find a definitive answer on how it functions. You seem to be a knowledgeable person so I'll start a new thread when I get the modem.
till then.
Community Veteran
Posts: 6,313
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Registered: 08-01-2008

Re: Using ADSL router with FIbre

Not sure if you're aware but if you pop over to http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,12284.0.html there are some excellent logging / graphing scripts for the HG612 (elsewhere on kitz for other versions).
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