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Use Of Phone Disrupts Broadband

OwldChap
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Registered: ‎09-08-2018

Re: Use Of Phone Disrupts Broadband

@Gandalf

 If you look on the Members Centres Notes you reference which I would have thought you would check before making your post you will see for your self which PlusNet staff member it is  who is MOST ADAMANT that an engineers visit took place 26 September 2018 between 13:00 - 1800 at my property. I have told him in no uncertain terms that an engineer did not attend my property for that appointment as arranged and certainly did not carry out any of all the test I was assured by that same person would be carried out he totally reject my statement so therefore he regards my statement as Lying in norther parlance he is saying I am lying. Do you accept that the engineer did not attend the as arranged appointment as I have said or do accept your fellow staff members position that the engineer did attend my property the appointment and change the master socket? 

You are not adding any thing to this by your comments as with your other comment above refer to your staff member who is handling this and pass your comment through him, practice as you preach.

 

As I have said I will not allow PlusNet to bully me 

 

 

I May Old But I’m No Fool (Except For Moving Here)
OwldChap
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Re: Use Of Phone Disrupts Broadband

Another week goes by no nearer a satisfactory resolution.

PlusNet as all ways full of hollow words in my experience and viewing other peoples description of their experience seem discriminatory in their actions, my advice do not cause PlusNet vexation or you will pay.

All the symptoms point to a High Resistance fault on the telephone line. I gave dates for engineer to attend when the fault was very bad as with these kind of faults the intensity fluctuates, I have recorded the problems. PlusNet chose to ignore these as they had not resolved another administrative problem.

I had to give another set of dates for engineer to attend at my property and was assured by PlusNet that “I have taken a look into this tonight and after speaking to our suppliers regarding the issue and they have advised that if another engineer appointment is requested then the visiting engineer will do end to end tests and thoroughly investigate both the distribution and exchange side of the line to locate and resolve the fault.” This did not happen the engineer did not keep the appointment as arranged No tests were carried out and most certainly not at the customer end as I have stated but PlusNet still regard the standard Openreach notes from the engineer as fact even though I have proved some of the notes are not factual and that I an a Liar.

As I have previously stated the problem goes back to June 2018 as Openreach will know very well as they will have the records for *********** which at that time was BT FTTC, up until the switch to PlusNet ADSL when I was incorrectly informed by PlusNet that my number could not be transferred hence the present Telephone number. The very first engineer diagnosed a fault underground from the tests and symptoms most likely a damaged cable or connection between the distribution pole and the Street Cabinet in Tweed Street which still persist as demonstrated by the information I have provided but it seems PlusNet regard as irrelevant or untrue. Most ex engineers from what information I can gather with remarkably similar described symptoms regard these problems as a High Resistance fault on the telephone Line. It seems that subsequent engineers are aware of the problems with the infrastructure in my area and with Cabinet 16 in Tweed Street so cannot be bothered to do anything but just issue a standard set of notes regardless of what they in fact carry out.

PlusNet have informed me that the have ordered a “lift and shift with in the exchange I do not know what will be achieved by changing things in the exchange by a "lift and shift". Will this move the line to a different set of cables from the exchange to the Street Cabinet and different set of cables between the Street Cabinet and the distribution pole? Again nothing happened as far as I know.

I do not know what
PlusNet mean as they now informed me that “It has been noted that your line is incredibly long and won't be without it's issues.” It would seem that my property has moved further away from the exchange, could PlusNet please specify a distance by cable length that PlusNet have been told the line is from property to exchange and what issues this raises? I would be most interested to know. It is more likely to be that the infrastructure is in that poor a condition and that its performance is so poor that it mimics the performance of a long line but again PlusNet have again discounted this.

 

What ever Openreach say is irreproachable.

I May Old But I’m No Fool (Except For Moving Here)
runhare
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Re: Use Of Phone Disrupts Broadband

For the record a "lift and shift " will move the cable pair serving your phone line terminating in the exchange to alternative  broadband equipment. Your service is therefore moved to another port/card on the DSLAM, which is the device that transmits the broadband signal down your phone line. A L&S will be carried out if Openreach suspect a fault with the line card you are currently connected to. Like any electrical equipment line cards can be damaged or simply go intermittently faulty. It can take anything from 30 mins to serveral hours for an engineer to complete the L&S depending on the layout at the exchange and how many other engineering tasks are being carried out at the time.  A L&S does not always work. It's quite possible for other problems to reproduce the same fault which is why it can take endless hours and many attempts to fix broadband faults.

Some things you should consider @OwldChap:

1) The UK's  phone system was not designed or built  with the concept of transmitting digital data  in mind and the ADSL Internet system using copper wires as a means of transmitting broadband is a classic, but very clever engineering bodge. You could argue that it only works on a wing and prayer with a following wind. This is why no-one ever makes any promises that a particular instalation will work. However  it does work adequately for most people most of the time.

2) the vast majority of Plus Net's customers don't have faults or problems. The complaints you see here are  tiny in number in comparison to the number of good working connections.

3) Fixing faults on the network is expensive. It is unlikely that BT/ PN will recoup the loss made by fixing a major  fault over the lifetime of a customer contract.

4)  Generally speaking you are better off using a FTTC Fibre connection, as it is for the most part fibre optic and more immune to phone fault problems but as you say it costs more. I'd argue that if you can take advantage of it then the reliabilty is far better as the final copper line length section will be compartibely short and therefore easier to locate problems. (FTTC will not work over long copper lines ) . e

5) Max length for an ADSL line would be between 4 and 5  miles from the DSLAM in the exchange if in tip top condition with few breaks and joins, but given the age of the network, thats not a likely scenario. So in reality it  could be much less.  Internet connection speed drops off with increasing line length due to the reduction in bandwidth that can be transmitted over a long line.

6) Comparatively speaking Plus Net is a cheap ISP provider and there is a well known saying that you get what you pay for . This is very true in the broadband market, If you want brilliant, instant customer service then look elsewhere but you will pay more - much more .

So in conclusion I would not be wasting my time and energy trying to get an ADSL connection to function if I knew that FTTC works ok. Yes it is more expensive,  but that may be your only viable option for a workable service. In which case I would not accept that you are being bullied into anything.

Hope this helps.

 

 

OwldChap
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Re: Use Of Phone Disrupts Broadband

Thank you @runhare for your as always helpful and interesting post

 

If I may comment.

 

1) Just shows it doe’ not mater how clever an idea it is to “bodge” something, it just highlights the short-sightedness of not putting the proper investment in to do a proper job at the time. Britain sufferd this for many years which is why we are were we are.

2)That is very true but that does not diminish the importance of the problem of the customer with the problem or the poor comprehension of what is relayed to Plusnet.

3) I think BT / PN will be well ahead in that respect, 40 years of paying line rental a proportion of which is supposed to go to maintenance of the telephone line plus as you point out in 2 that if the vast majority do not require assistance then their line rental will covert the short fall as did my contributions did over the years when I did not get any assistance.

4) Yes FTTC may be a more suitable choice, but as I have said I cannot justify the additional cost for just general web browsing especial when on a pension. AS for reliability this exact behaviour was apparent when I was using BT FTTC and goes back to June 2018. Openreach had apparently no remedy to the problem then diagnosed as an underground fault between the pole and street cabinet other than to change the pair if Openreach are to believed they have now done this three times without a resolution to the problem which gives rise to my scepticism of Openreach. There may be some doubt about the conductor material of the cables according to visiting engineers.

5) 2.7km or 1.7miles as confirmed by an engineer and service drawings while it is not ideal it is far from extreme as you mention it is more likely to be the very poor condition of the infrastructure that make the line perform poorly. I have mentioned to PlusNet that if it is no worth while perusing a remedy to the problem then they should say so and give it up as a bad job, No response from
PlusNet

6) I have mentioned above the reliability of FTTC in my area. As for the bullying issue that is regarding an engineers visit that did not happen, testing that did not happen and the replacement of the NTE5C Mk4 master socket replacement twice in a fortnight that did not happen and PlusNet forceful insistence that all this did happen in the Members Centre.

I May Old But I’m No Fool (Except For Moving Here)
OwldChap
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Re: Use Of Phone Disrupts Broadband

@notmyname Thank you for your message.

If you do not work for PlusNet how will you determine the type of cables and their conductors betwen my property and the PCP (Street Cabinet 16 in Tweed Street 700m cable length), do you have access to Openreach records.

Thank you for your interest

I May Old But I’m No Fool (Except For Moving Here)
OwldChap
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Re: Use Of Phone Disrupts Broadband

Hello @notmyname.

The street cabinet is number 16 and is located in Tweed Street  and the cable will run under ground south under the pavement  to just before a road junction where is crosses under the road to the back streets and down the back streets on poles the cable length is 700m. The engineer that came today explained that the cable to the PCP from the exchange "was the best for broadband" (cable length 2km) but he also confirmed aluminium cable between the PCP and the property which explains the lines poor performance after the PCP with regard to broadband. The engineer said there was an external problem between the property and the PCP but could not find a specific fault which I interpret as poor infrastructure. Openreach will do nothing about.

Thank you for your interest.

 

 

I May Old But I’m No Fool (Except For Moving Here)
OwldChap
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Re: Use Of Phone Disrupts Broadband

Nothing ever happens the way PlusNet say.

Engineer called yesterday 15 October 2018 when PlusNet said an engineer may call but you do not need to be in. The engineer said he needed to come in the property, the engineer did his test this will be the 9 set of tests since June this year the he went away for a while the returned to do 10th set of tests the conclusion the engineer came as is in post 109. The engineer said there was an external problem between the property and the PCP but could not find a specific fault which I interpret as poor 50 - 55 year old infrastructure that Openreach will do nothing about. The engineer all so said that "no lift and shift is being carried out as it would be useless exercise for this kind of fault." PlusNet will say anything and are just misleading to paper over the cracks in a decrepit service and infrastructure.

This morning 16 October 2018 two random dropouts 06:14:10 and at 09:37:41 Line Attenuation downstream ridiculously high at 57dB, SNR still high at 9dB. No resolution to the problems with the service then.

Openreach know very well the line length and the infrastructure from the service drawings that they hold. Are the test results carried out compared against as single set of criteria or are they judge against what Openreach think the line performance is capable. There seem to be some fiddling about with the figures on the BT Wholesale Checker.

Shambles from the vey start.

 

I May Old But I’m No Fool (Except For Moving Here)
OwldChap
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Re: Use Of Phone Disrupts Broadband

 

No response from PlusNet on Members Centre.

Openreach running rings round PlusNet, PlusNet don't know is they are coming or going.

After drop this morning 09:37:41 Line Attenuation downstream ridiculously high at 57dB, SNR still high at 9dB. router syncing on G.DMT = ADSL 1.

Data rate is 3000 kbps down on Maximum date figure at the moment which point to poor quality of the line. 

Openreach no answers.

PlusNet just playing games they do not have a clue what is going on and neither do I nothing coordinated, Engineers please themselves when and if they come to the property I think PlusNet / Openreach just having a joke at old folks expense. 

From a Distinguished Sage on BT Forum  The lack of any current flowing through the wires due to the lack of a phone providing an occasional loop, causes oxidisation at any joints which causes the line resistance to increase. This does not show up on a normal line test.

Line not completely silent still a murmur still apparent on a simple corded phone.

I May Old But I’m No Fool (Except For Moving Here)
Plusnet Help Team
Plusnet Help Team
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Registered: ‎11-01-2018

Re: Use Of Phone Disrupts Broadband

 

Hi @OwldChap

 

Thanks for the update - I'm sorry to hear that this is still ongoing.

 

I can see that this has now been escalated to one of our advocate team and that they've taken ownership on a ticket here.

 

I've flagged this with my colleague and will ensure that he calls you when he's back in the office tomorrow.

 

Best wishes

 

Dave

If this post resolved your issue please click the 'This fixed my problem' button
 Dave G
 Plusnet Help Team
OwldChap
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Re: Use Of Phone Disrupts Broadband

Thank you @RandallFlagg for your post.

Your colleague did not say he would be away.

CRC Downstream 541907 Upstrem 511 in 17.5 hrs

Still Downstream rate 3000kbps lower than Maximum Downstream Rate.

Suggests High resistance fault line connection / damaged cable diagnosed back in June not been fixed in fact nothing been fixed. 

Be interesting to see what one of your advocate team writes in the Members Centre because what he has said would happen has not happened.

Thanks again

 

I May Old But I’m No Fool (Except For Moving Here)
OwldChap
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Re: Use Of Phone Disrupts Broadband

PlusNet still silent.

another drop this morning 06:33:56, 18 Oct. dsl:ADSL Link Down

Nothing about the underground fault, although the engineer did say he could not find a physical fault he did say that it was dropping between the property and a box (underground chamber) further along the back street.

So Openreach have still not actually fixed anything.

Just have to wait PlusNET 

I May Old But I’m No Fool (Except For Moving Here)
OwldChap
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Re: Use Of Phone Disrupts Broadband

 

Drop in connection 2018-10-18 19:52:47 kernel: Link State: DSL link down.

 

Noise on the line with the simple corded telephone plugged into the test socket 20/10/2018 12:37 (Video taken)

Lift handset Noise that intense causes broadband to drop 2018-10-20 13:09:45 syslog: LCP down.

Have had to factory reset router to get broadband connection back.

 

Lift hand set Router drops Broadband connection:-

14:33:40, 20 Oct.dsl:ADSL Link Down: duration was 2225 seconds

15:04:23, 20 Oct.dsl:ADSL Link Down: duration was 1792 seconds

15:05:43, 20 Oct.dsl:ADSL Link Down: duration was 29 seconds

15:12:34, 20 Oct.dsl:ADSL Link Down: duration was 361 seconds

15:21:18, 20 Oct.dsl:ADSL Link Down: duration was 473 seconds

15:31:25, 20 Oct.dsl:ADSL Link Down: duration was 557 seconds

 

Router dropping connection purely because of the amount of noise on the line:- 

15:37:32, 20 Oct.dsl:ADSL Link Down: duration was 317 seconds

15:38:55, 20 Oct.dsl:ADSL Link Down: duration was 32 seconds

15:40:26, 20 Oct.dsl:ADSL Link Down: duration was 40 seconds

15:43:12, 20 Oct.dsl:ADSL Link Down: duration was 117 seconds

15:45:00, 20 Oct.dsl:ADSL Link Down: duration was 58 seconds

Just continually dropping connection. Useless.

PlusNet missed the best opportunity to rectify this fault when the noise on the line was so bad that you could not hold a conversation on the telephone PlusNet ignored the dates 20, 21, and 26 September I was asked to provide for an engineers visit but support was held back while a decision was made with regard to the telephone number, as soon as that decision was made shortly after PlusNet tried to contact me about arranging an engineers visit.

Connection interleaved 96 Down 8, Up INP 3 / 1.3, Line attenuation 49dB should be nearer 38 for cable length to exchange.

PlusNet / Openreach do not have an answer Openreach been on this since June, PlusNet since 9 September 2018. 

PlusNet / Openreach have had ample opportunity to solve this atrocious service and a halt should be called to this shambles now time to close the account without penalty or send deadlock letter.

 

 

I May Old But I’m No Fool (Except For Moving Here)
OwldChap
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Re: Use Of Phone Disrupts Broadband

The line that connects my property to the exchange has been thoroughly investigated according to one of PlusNet's advocate team.

Still Noise on the line which PlusNet / Openreach have done nothing about.

Here is s screen shot of all the drops, each line represents a drop in connection in 12 hrs and through the early hours.Screen Shot 10-21-18 at 12.51 PM.jpg

Plusnet also say the settings for the line are as they should be and do not widely vary, not what I am seeing.Screen Shot 10-21-18 at 11.31 AM.jpg 

 

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Plusnet Help Team
Plusnet Help Team
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Registered: ‎06-08-2018

Re: Use Of Phone Disrupts Broadband

Hi @OwldChap

I sincerely apologise for the continued issues with your services.

After checking your account, I can confirm that this issue is currently with a dedicated case handler from the correct department. If you need to add any further information, please add it to the ticket here.

I have also emailed the case handler to ensure this is picked up as soon as possible for you.

Thank you.

If this post resolved your issue please click the 'This fixed my problem' button
 Lewis G
 Plusnet Help Team
OwldChap
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Re: Use Of Phone Disrupts Broadband

Thank you for your post @Jubby

Just keeping members informed of PlusNet / Openreach tardy progress with the fault and a lack of a repair to the underground fault. The fault has existed since June under BT / Openreach and by PlusNet / Openreach since 9 September 2018. Openreach put some restrictive settings on the line that did not work, PlusNet / Openreach will do anything but actually address the fault. PlusNet let their suppliers do as they please, Openreach with their experience and expertise know exactly what and where the fault is after the 9 engineers visit over the months but probably think it uneconomical to act even though I have paid thousands of pounds over the decades in line rental.  

PlusNet member of the advocate team has a link to the thread in the Members Centre Notes for their conveyance.

Many Thanks Once Again. 

I May Old But I’m No Fool (Except For Moving Here)