Unreliable broadband since April 2020 (started in October 2019 though)

[#1]

I have been suffering from unreliable broadband since October last year, I raised a call in April this year as it was unbearable trying to work from home with line drops when on teams meetings.

This all started in October 2019 when my router got zapped (Billion7800N) I replaced it with a Billion 7800DXL but still some issues with line going up and down. I struggled on until the lockdown forced me to do something about it.

I raised a call and have had three Openreach visits with one saying fixed some joints in access trench. I am still having the same issues. I run JDs auto test which shows the connection can be from zero to about 16Mbps, this runs every 10 minutes. I have also run numerous trace routes to two urls and they can have a latency of up to 3000ms at times from my router to the exchange. I have tested this wired and wireless in my house and the reading from my laptop to my router is always 1 to 4 ms. There are also lots of dropped pings when running the tracert due to very high latency. I have had two Plusnet routers sent out both function the same and have the same issues. I have also bought another Billion 7800DXL to test this on the line but I haven't installed it yet as I have raise ANOTHER call with plusnet. I don't know what to do now I am utterly fed up with this situation as when they test they tell me I am syncing around 19Mbps and they only guarantee 3Mbps (used to be guaranteed minimum 7Mbps ??????). This issue is affected by the humidity in the air, when there has been heavy rain the connection is worse. So moisture/water is getting into other joints somewhere along the line.This is an intermittent fault that is obviously difficult to diagnose.  Short of emailing the CEO (I have done inn the past) is Ofcom the next move?

I have added the results of the trace I ran this morning.

Tracing route to zd.map.fastly.net [151.101.2.219]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 1 ms 1 ms 1 ms dsldevice.lan [192.168.0.1]
2 1663 ms 1975 ms 2741 ms 172.16.19.69
3 * 2482 ms * 133.hiper04.sheff.dial.plus.net.uk [195.166.143.133]
4 1071 ms 1112 ms 1079 ms 132.hiper04.sheff.dial.plus.net.uk [195.166.143.132]
5 1399 ms 1495 ms 2079 ms 195.99.125.144
6 * 2531 ms 1920 ms peer8-et-3-1-7.telehouse.ukcore.bt.net [194.72.16.150]
7 * * * Request timed out.
8 * 2006 ms 647 ms 151.101.2.219

Trace complete.

C:\WINDOWS\system32>tracert www.bbc.com

Tracing route to www-bbc-com.bbc.net.uk [212.58.237.248]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 3 ms 1 ms 1 ms dsldevice.lan [192.168.0.1]
2 1544 ms 1828 ms 1907 ms 172.16.19.69
3 * * * Request timed out.
4 2823 ms 1849 ms 93 ms 128.hiper04.sheff.dial.plus.net.uk [195.166.143.128]
5 1208 ms 1920 ms * 195.99.125.136
6 2262 ms * 2749 ms peer7-et-4-0-4.telehouse.ukcore.bt.net [194.72.16.128]
7 3069 ms 2388 ms 1327 ms 109.159.253.15
8 * * * Request timed out.
9 * 2467 ms 2526 ms ae0.er01.telhc.bbc.co.uk [132.185.254.109]
10 202 ms 565 ms 721 ms 132.185.255.148
11 2516 ms * 2158 ms 212.58.238.5
12 * 2050 ms 2756 ms 212.58.237.248

Trace complete.

Regards

George

[#2]

Hi @ppcsl 

A warm welcome to the forums.

-------------------------

I don't know what to do now I am utterly fed up with this situation as when they test they tell me I am syncing around 19Mbps and they only guarantee 3Mbps (used to be guaranteed minimum 7Mbps ??????). This issue is affected by the humidity in the air, when there has been heavy rain the connection is worse. So moisture/water is getting into other joints somewhere along the line.  This is an intermittent fault that is obviously difficult to diagnose.  Short of emailing the CEO (I have done inn the past) is Ofcom the next move?

-------------------------

Running trace routs is not overly helpful here, so I would not waste more time doing or reporting them.  You need to get down into the arena of router stats to see what is happening on the line, not just sync speed but also error rates and SNRM.

If the router is syncing at 19mbps but you are only getting 3mbps on data speed tests (do check that the units here are bits [b] and not bytes [B] - some DATA speed test tools report in BYTES) then that would suggest that there is a high error rate, which could have a multitude of causes, both without and within the home.

Is the router plugged into the master socket?

Are there any extensions?

Broadband is not going to work well if the "phone" line is not working properly.

Please perform a quiet line test - dial 17070 select option 2 using a corded phone plugged into the test socket behind the face plate of the master socket. It should be silent. A noisy phone line (or no dial tone) will have a marked adverse impact on the performance of broadband.

If the line is noisy or there is no dial tone, then a PHONE LINE fault needs to be raised with your phone provider. If this is PlusNet, you can report a fault on line using the button below.  From the Q&A list, choose the one which matches the problem, 'open' the 'section' and click the trouble-shooter link.  NB: If you receive a failure message (rather than a log-in prompt) then log-in to the user portal in a different browser tab and attempt to use the trouble-shooter again.

• Phone Faults

How is your line performing?

Please post your router stats; for PN TG582n and 2704n routers use the buttons below, for other routers look at the Kitz link.

Also run a BT Wholesale speed test (ideally using an Ethernet wired PC with the WiFi turned off) then run the further diagnostics and post the results here. DO NOT REBOOT the router!

NB: Please use an Edge browser or IE as there have been many reports that others fail to function correctly when accessing the BTw speed test.

• TG582n Stats
• 2704n Stats
• Kitz list
• BTw Speedtest

The good news here is that RouterStats lite (see the links below) support the Billion 7800DXL router.  Downloading that, installing it and running it 24x7 would be a good way to obtain a detailed profile of how your line is behaving.  Bad lines can be more susceptible to external issues as well.  Such issues are somewhat difficult to profile.

Taking the issue to the CEO of BTOR might be your ultimate recourse, but before doing so, you need to be armed with as much factual information as you can muster, but more than anything else, you need to have followed the self help processes to the letter.  The guidance above and the self help fault links below will assist with that.

[#3]

Thanks Townman, more information from you than I got from any call to Plusnet help.

Here lies my dilemma the sun is out and it is afternoon so the moisture issues have gone. Here are the router stats:

Statistics -- xDSL

 

Mode:		ADSL_2plus
Traffic Type:		ATM
Status:		Up
Link Power State:		L0
	Downstream	Upstream
Line Coding(Trellis):	On	On
SNR Margin (1 dB):	3.6	8.0
Attenuation (1 dB):	29.5	14.0
Output Power (1 dBm):	20.6	12.2
Attainable Rate (Kbps):	21080	1312
	Path 0		Path 1
	Downstream	Upstream	Downstream	Upstream
Rate (Kbps):	19156	828	0	0
MSGc (# of bytes in overhead channel message):	56	24	0	0
B (# of bytes in Mux Data Frame):	154	34	0	0
M (# of Mux Data Frames in FEC Data Frame):	1	2	0	0
T (Mux Data Frames over sync bytes):	4	2	0	0
R (# of check bytes in FEC Data Frame):	14	16	0	0
S (ratio of FEC over PMD Data Frame length):	0.2585	2.6666	0.0	0.0
L (# of bits in PMD Data Frame):	5230	258	0	0
D (interleaver depth):	96	8	0	0
Delay (msec):	6	5	0.0	0.0
INP (DMT symbol):	1.00	1.50	0.0	0.0
Super Frames:	579483	459120	0	0
Super Frame Errors:	3	0	0	0
RS Words:	143711364	1060761	0	0
RS Correctable Errors:	209352	707	0	0
RS Uncorrectable Errors:	3	0	0	0
HEC Errors:	2	0	0	0
OCD Errors:	0	0	0	0
LCD Errors:	0	0	0	0
Total Cells:	419611335	18130101	0	0
Data Cells:	3008950	6876938	0	0
Bit Errors:	0	0	0	0
Total ES:	2	0
Total SES:	0	0
Total UAS:	26	26

Every time I run this test or have an Openreach engineer run a test it comes back almost perfect.

I have also done all the self help list a few times now. Changed master socket taken off used main plug with new filters from Plusnet, wired into a gig netgear switch turned everything off (4G Three router to try and suplement Plusnet issues.) Changed wireless channels on all devices used wifi analyzer to check for cross over the list goes on.

But thanks for your quick reply and the fact I have gotten more info to work on from you that I have in any Plusnet support call. 

Routerstats lite may not work as it requires a pop up window for the login details and the Plusnet 2704 doesn't do that.

Unless you can advise otherwise?

And BT test attached as jpg.

Thanks

George

[#4]

Hi George,

The fundamentals here look good, I might suggest overly optimistic.  Which router is in use here?

The delivered speed is much higher than expected for the reported attenuation, even allowing for the DS SNRM being circa 3dB rather than the standard 6dB.  There is some risk that the lowered SNRM will give rise to more data transmission errors than might be ideal.  Can you please confirm that there are no router tweaks in here being used to extract more speed out of the line?

Frankly I have problems finding credence in the reported attainable line rate - you would need to be much closer to the exchange than 29.5dB suggests.

I cannot tell if the correctable error count is significant or not.

How long is it since the router was last resync'd?  The SNRM of 3.6dB DS and 8dB US are off from their targets which will always be a multiple of 3dB, therefore the noise level from the time of the last resync to when you took the readings has changed a little.  It would be helpful to know the target SNRM values - you can find these by looking for the messages in the router log at the time of start up / resync.

"I have also bought another Billion 7800DXL" - this router is listed as being compatible with Router Stats Lite - I checked that before the previous post.  It certainly does not work with the 2704n.  The statement about requiring a pop-up login could be at odds with the other interface Router Stats uses - telnet - which of course does not 'pop-up' at all.

Your basic stuff looks fine, you now need to profile why sometimes it behaves poorly.  If you cannot get RSL working, you might just need to resort to running regular quiet line tests, especially when performance is slow and hope that you find noise on the line.  In that case to can report intermittent noise on the phone line ... which should bring about a different response from BTOR.

Hope that helps some?

[#5]

Hi Townman

I am using the Plusnet 2704n Sagecom, which I now have two of. I want to keep the line as standard as possible. I haven't done anything with the SNR (one of the reasons I use a billion). I am also only about 1.5Km from the exchange and a direct connection to it no green box or fibre (the reason I was hassling the CEO as fibre is in my area).

I rebooted the router last Friday I think, definitely last week.

Thanks again for your help.

I have reset the stats and the results are below:

Statistics -- xDSL

 

Mode:		ADSL_2plus
Traffic Type:		ATM
Status:		Up
Link Power State:		L0
	Downstream	Upstream
Line Coding(Trellis):	On	On
SNR Margin (1 dB):	3.6	7.8
Attenuation (1 dB):	29.5	14.0
Output Power (1 dBm):	20.6	12.2
Attainable Rate (Kbps):	21100	1312
	Path 0		Path 1
	Downstream	Upstream	Downstream	Upstream
Rate (Kbps):	19156	828	0	0
MSGc (# of bytes in overhead channel message):	56	24	0	0
B (# of bytes in Mux Data Frame):	154	34	0	0
M (# of Mux Data Frames in FEC Data Frame):	1	2	0	0
T (Mux Data Frames over sync bytes):	4	2	0	0
R (# of check bytes in FEC Data Frame):	14	16	0	0
S (ratio of FEC over PMD Data Frame length):	0.2585	2.6666	0.0	0.0
L (# of bits in PMD Data Frame):	5230	258	0	0
D (interleaver depth):	96	8	0	0
Delay (msec):	6	5	0.0	0.0
INP (DMT symbol):	1.00	1.50	0.0	0.0
Super Frames:	23469	18594	0	0
Super Frame Errors:	0	0	0	0
RS Words:	5820448	565861	0	0
RS Correctable Errors:	8745	20	0	0
RS Uncorrectable Errors:	0	0	0	0
HEC Errors:	0	0	0	0
OCD Errors:	0	0	0	0
LCD Errors:	0	0	0	0
Total Cells:	16994597	732307	0	0
Data Cells:	154821	53953	0	0
Bit Errors:	0	0	0	0
Total ES:	0	0
Total SES:	0	0
Total UAS:	0	0

[#6]

That 29dB attenuation suggests a circuit run longer than 1.5km.

Given the choice of using anything but a 2704n and something else, I would not use the 2704n, especially if something else were capable of being monitored 24x7.  I would though want to ensure that something else was not seeking to bend line performance parameters!

[#7]

Hi Townman, I thought I would update this as I am still in the middle of my issues but I escalated this to the CEO of PN and have been dealing with a really helpful guy Mat who has gone above and beyond for me. I am now using their Plusnet Hub one which didn't fix the issue. We acme to the conclusion that it is nothing to do with my equipment OR Plusnet's equipment it was an infrastructure issue.

I then escalated this to the CEO of Openreach who again passed me to the Chief Engineer for Scotland who instantly setup a team to investigate. They did find issues in my area and a damaged cable a local farmer had dug up and "fixed" himself.

I am still suffering from very high latency intermittently and my SNR has been locked at 9db which has dropped my sync speed from 19ish to 15-16. The latency is causing some major issues when myself or my wife are on a teams call or trying to connect to our work servers through VPNs. I seem to see spikes in latency when we are trying to connect to our work servers. The day the SNR was set at 9db caused youtube to not allow us to watch any videos not even at 480?? This was 24 hours after it had been set. It works now but it did cause me to have a slight "meltdown" at the Openreach engineers who called me the next day. The onus seems to be aimed at the stability of the line with no regard of the quality of use. They said the line is now stable with no drop outs they see it syncing at 15-16Mbps which they seem to be happy with. My line speed test return speeds from 1.08 to 13Mbps but are mainly in the 4 to 8Mbps range the higher are just spikes. Latency has been as high as 279ms. I am now able to watch youtube at 1080 but not tried Netflix at 4K. Openreach are contacting me on Tuesday 17th November to go over the settling period. When my line works it works really well but its the intermittent problems that just drive me to despair. The good thing in this is that Mat at Plusnet Customer care has been brilliant.

In my research I came across the AER800 ADSL Loop Extender but it looks like it is not certified for use in the UK, but I am going to ask if there is an alternative as it is priced at around $240.

Thanks 

George

[#8]

Hi George,

WOW!!

The just goes to show that sometime things are complicated and not obviously so!  Farmer Jones damages a bit of infrastructure and bodges a repair rather than fessing up to the 'authorities'!  Ordinary infrastructure engineer does the minimal necessary and cannot understand why things are not as good as they ought to be ... and say "That'll do!".

Remain unconvinced that the new "That'll do!" strap line came from within Plusnet but was somewhat visited upon them by BT.  It is disappointing that BTOR has not yet got the circuit up to scratch.  If the farmer has damaged the cable and bodged a repair ... one has to consider if he's made a habit of it and done it somewhere else on the circuit?

An updated set of router stats for comparison would be useful please.

I looked up the loop extender - the key point of one of these is that it is fitted somewhere in the external circuit so that is BTOR's domain ... and needs to be part of your discussion with them on addressing teh residual performance issues.  Indeed this is not just about raw line sync speed but useable speed, that is error free sync speed.