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Unrealistic Speed Expectations?

iciclethief
Grafter
Posts: 26
Registered: 31-07-2007

Unrealistic Speed Expectations?

Hi,
I've been on the ADSL 2+ trial for 4 weeks now.  During the training period, I was getting DS sync speeds of around 8000 although my BT profile seemed to be stuck at 5500.  My profile is now at 6500, however, before the trial my sync speed was always in the region of 6500-7000.  I though I would get get at lease 8000-9000 on 21CN.  Am I wrong?
Any help or advice would be much appreciated.
Here's the stats from my ADSL router (after a reboot and speed test):


Connection Status   Connected
Ds Rate (Kbps) 	  	6578
Us Rate (Kbps)   912
DS Margin   9
US Margin   6
DS Line Attenuation     38
US Line Attenuation     24
Trained Modulation      ADSL_2plus
LOS Errors   0
Peak Cell Rate   2150 cells per sec
CRC Rx Fast   624
CRC Tx Fast   1
CRC Rx Interleaved      0
CRC Tx Interleaved      0
Path Mode   Fast Path
9 REPLIES
ashgeo
Grafter
Posts: 93
Registered: 24-07-2008

Re: Unrealistic Speed Expectations?

Hi iciclethief,
I have also been on the trail for about 4 weeks but have been following this forum for a long time. From my understanding ADSL2+ really only benefits those who have very low line attenuation and those that have a higher line attenuation. It appears that those in the "middle" range do not seem gain as much.
My line has a downstream attenuation of 76.5db and prior to switching I was getting about 800-900kbps sync speed on DSL MAX but since moving onto the trial I have been as much as 1170kbps (unfortunately not long enough for my profile to go up to 1meg). Today it is 1141kbps. Fingers crossed I can move from my current 750kbps profile..... Wink
The only things I can suggest that may help (if you are not doing them already) is to ensure that everything is filtered, disconnect the "ring wire", plug the router into the master socket, make sure the software for the router is up to date and get yourself a BT iPlate.  I have also found that getting rid of anything that causes interference has also helped, including controversially all the CFL energy saving lamps from the house (have bought a box load of “old fashioned” bulbs to keep me going until the scientists come up with something better than CFL’s). If you use something like the RouterStats software (on a compatible router) you can play around and find out if anything locally is causing interference. Other than that there is not much that can be done until the incumbent telecoms giant is incentivised to invest in FTTC/FTTP for everyone.
Good luck!
scootie
Grafter
Posts: 4,799
Registered: 03-11-2007

Re: Unrealistic Speed Expectations?

which router are you running?
as ashgeo as said using routerstats to monitor your line is a good idea and i have mine monitoring my line 24/7 it can be alot of detective work finding out if somthing is interfering with the signal but a couple of times ive bein lucky enough to be looking at the SNR graph when ive heard sumone in the house flick a switch and see my snr dip down.
as first attempt if you have any phone extensions running of the master socket then using the test socket for a day or 2 to see if your sync stays stable or even better the DLM decides to lower you down to 6db nosie margin instead of the what looks like 9db at the mo.
All thoe the increase in sync and lower snr may take a few days maybe weeks to show its self pluged into the test scoket. But if you monitor your sync speed and see no drops over a day or 2 its likely leaving it longer would see the nosie margin come down and sync increase
iciclethief
Grafter
Posts: 26
Registered: 31-07-2007

Re: Unrealistic Speed Expectations?

I'm using a D-Link DSL-G624T running RouterTech AR7WRD custom firmware (v2.91.1)  Unfortunately I cannot easily monitor the stats for this router.  I do have a fairly old Netgear DG834G which always synced at around 500kbs to 1000kbs lower that the d-link, but maybe it's worth switching to this for a while for monitoring.
I have an ADSL Nation XTE-2005 Master Faceplate on the master socket with the ring wire disconnected.  The phone is on an extension socket from the master, and is already filtered by the XTE-2005.  The modem is also on an extension from the pre-filtered 'ADSL side' of the XTE-2005, but is on an additional filter at the extension (I'm missing an rj-11 to rj-45t connector), do you think that this 'double-filtering' could have an adverse effect?
I agree that I wouldn't expect to see a huge gain, but I'd have though at least it wouldn't have worsened.
Prior to the trial when regularly connecting at ~7000kbs, I had a 6db noise margin on an 'Interleaved' connection.  During the trial, the modem seemed to regularly switch between interleaved and fast-path.
I'll try and arrange for the netgear router to be plugged directly into the test socket for a few days and monitor with routerstats, but it's quite a task with my current home network configuration.
Thanks ashgeo and asbo dog for your help and advice.
James
Grafter
Posts: 21,036
Registered: 04-04-2007

Re: Unrealistic Speed Expectations?

@ashgeo
Quote
My line has a downstream attenuation of 76.5db and prior to switching I was getting about 800-900kbps sync speed on DSL MAX but since moving onto the trial I have been as much as 1170kbps (unfortunately not long enough for my profile to go up to 1meg). Today it is 1141kbps. Fingers crossed I can move from my current 750kbps profile.....

To be honest, it's some form of miracle that you get a broadband signal at all!  I think yours is the longest attenuation I've ever seen (but most router don't report higher than 63.5dB.
Highlighted
clanduncan
Newbie
Posts: 2
Registered: 19-10-2009

Re: Unrealistic Speed Expectations?

My own experience on the trial is similar to Ashgeo's, with an attenuation figure between 65-70dB's, at just under 6km from the exchange. I use a DG834G router, on which I upgraded the firmware before taking part in the trial. It doesn't tell me whether I'm on ADSL2+ though, just a generic ADSL. However I have seen my line speed go up from an average 850kbps on ADSL-MAX, to an average 1150kbps (after 4-5 weeks training) on ADSL2+. About a 35% increase then, which is not hugely noticeable, but web page loads do seem a bit smoother.  Cool
Can't wait until BT gets FTTC rolled out properly over the next few years. Should make all the difference to the s/n ratios.
scootie
Grafter
Posts: 4,799
Registered: 03-11-2007

Re: Unrealistic Speed Expectations?

@clanduncan. use this app to grab more info from your netgear http://www.vwlowen.co.uk/internet/files.htm and you will get a read out from it like this on the telnet tab's terminal
as you can see the DLM makes us sync on adls2 not adsl2+ when your attention is so high and none of the extra tones that are used by + are not used on are lines
/usr/sbin/adslctl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: ShowtimeRetrain Reason: 8000
Channel: FAST, Upstream rate = 859 Kbps, Downstream rate = 3523 Kbps
Link Power State: L0
Mode:                  ADSL2
Channel:                Fast
Trellis:                U:ON /D:ON
Line Status:            No Defect
Training Status:        Showtime
                Down            Up
SNR (dB):      11.8            6.2
Attn(dB):      49.0            28.2
Pwr(dBm):      0.0            12.9
Max(Kbps):      4272            856
Rate (Kbps):    3523            859
ashgeo
Grafter
Posts: 93
Registered: 24-07-2008

Re: Unrealistic Speed Expectations?

@James....
Prior to moving my stats reported an attenuation of 63.5db but since moving to 21CN ADSL2+ the software from the router now states my downstream attentuation to be 76db!  I was suprised when I first discovered this figure but it supports the reported length of the line to be around 7-8km (from BT engineer that once visited after discovering that my line was shorting out on the frame at the exchange).  Why oh why they insist the phone line on a new development of houses has to go around the ring road a couple of times plus a visit to the M20 Junction 10 before making it's way to me I'll never know. The exchange is after all only 3km away by road....  Oh what I'd give to have a speed somewhere near what those reporting problems of on these pages.... Roll on FTTC/FTTP.....

@ASBODOG
Even with the above attentaion my router reports (via router stats) I am connected by ADSL2+, see below:
/usr/sbin/adslctl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: ShowtimeRetrain Reason: 1
Channel: FAST, Upstream rate = 385 Kbps, Downstream rate = 1123 Kbps
Link Power State: L0
Mode:                  ADSL2+
Channel:                Fast
Trellis:                U:OFF /D:ON
Line Status:            No Defect
Training Status:        Showtime
                Down            Up
SNR (dB):      6.1            7.8
Attn(dB):      76.0            44.4
Pwr(dBm):      15.4            11.6
Max(Kbps):      1488            13153
Rate (Kbps):    1123            385
                        G.dmt framing
K:              36(0)          14
R:              10              16
S:              4              4
D:              8              2
                        ADSL2 framing
MSGc:          59              29
B:              35              13
M:              4              4
T:              1              4
R:              10              16
S:              3.9870          4.5714
L:              309            126
D:              8              2
                        Counters
SF:            1904022        770975
SFErr:          161            81381
RS:            30940364                1214325
RSCorr:        5575            2424535
RSUnCorr:      948            0
HEC:            131            37529
OCD:            2              0
LCD:            0              0
Total Cells:    81728526                1861563734
Data Cells:    13676436                129309383
Drop Cells:    0
Bit Errors:    0              3447520
ES:            352            45581
SES:            6              781
UAS:            65              377019
AS:            30841
INP:            1.03            1.01
PER:            16.19          40.00
delay:          7.97            2.28
OR:            32.10          7.00
Bitswap:        2708            19
Total time = 1 days 14 hours 44 min 51 sec
SF  = 8609798
CRC = 1507
LOS = 6
LOF = 18
ES  = 352
Latest 1 day time = 14 hours 44 min 51 sec
SF  = 3275002
CRC = 1170
LOS = 3
LOF = 18
ES  = 145
Latest 15 minutes time = 14 min 51 sec
SF  = 55050
CRC = 9
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES  = 7
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
SF  = 55545
CRC = 4
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES  = 3
Previous 1 day time = 24 hours 0 sec
SF  = 5334796
CRC = 337
LOS = 3
LOF = 0
ES  = 207
15 minutes interval [-30 min to -15 min] time = 15 min 0 sec
SF  = 55608
CRC = 1
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES  = 1
15 minutes interval [-45 min to -30 min] time = 15 min 0 sec
SF  = 55483
CRC = 2
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES  = 1
15 minutes interval [-60 min to -45 min] time = 15 min 0 sec
SF  = 55608
CRC = 4
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES  = 3
Showtime Drop Reason:  1
Last Retrain Reason:    1

PS My router is a Netgear DGN2000 running the latest software upgrade plugged into the master socket the hallway via a BT iPlate (much to my partners grumbles). This morning I was sync'd at 1170kbps and now 1123kbps. Just short of the 1152kbps for 3 days to up me to the 1 meg profile Angry
Am thinking of some DIY and internal wiring changes to force a higher sync........ Roll eyes
ashgeo
Grafter
Posts: 93
Registered: 24-07-2008

Re: Unrealistic Speed Expectations?

PPS The only thing fast round here is the super speedy new SouthEastern trains from Ashford to St Pancras in 35min, [from 1hr23] (and of course the local boy racers  Wink ). Nothing to do with BT's infrastructure......
iciclethief
Grafter
Posts: 26
Registered: 31-07-2007

Re: Unrealistic Speed Expectations?

I bought a new ADSL router in the end; a netgear DGN2000.  I'm now getting a sync speed of around 7800kb with a line attenuation of 44.0db  Smiley
I did experiment with the older netgear router (which produced similar results to the d-link) and routerstats, the noise margin was all over the place in the evenings after 18:00 until about 07:00.  It made no discernible difference using the test socket or the extension. With the new router the noise margin remains fairly constant at around 9db (or 6db with a little tweak from routerstats Wink).
Thanks for all your help and advice.