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Turning my router off

Razer
Grafter
Posts: 1,398
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Registered: ‎17-11-2012

Turning my router off

This really bugs me. The Plusnet literature states quite casually that we should not turn our routers off. I'm sorry, but I'm an economical person, I try as much as I can not to waste resources, and by default, money. That means that as a rule I turn off all electrical equipment when not in use. In these days of ever-increasing costs (hint, hint) it is even more imperative for us to save money where we can. Every little bit helps. Why is it such a problem to turn off my router at night? I'm not convinced by the argument that 'the system' will think there are connection problems with your line and ... [insert do whatever here].
I previously had a sterling service from BE and turned my router off every night and never lost any speed at all (24Mb every day, without fail). So what is different about Plusnet that they expect customers to leave their router on (and pay for its wasteful running costs as a result)?
40 REPLIES
quelquod
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Registered: ‎31-07-2007

Re: Turning my router off

Turning your router off overnight isn't likely to be an issue of any sort. What Plusnet are really getting at is that if you turn your router off and on frequently or at short intervals the equipment in the telephone exchange may interpret this as a problem with the telephone line and reduce your connection speed in an attempt to improve things. The exchange equipment can only tell that the router has stopped talking to it, it can't distinguish properly between a line fault and the router being off or disconnected.
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Community Veteran
Posts: 38,460
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Registered: ‎15-06-2007

Re: Turning my router off

Also Be don't use the BT DLM and so don't change your default noise margin if they think it might be unstable
Razer
Grafter
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Registered: ‎17-11-2012

Re: Turning my router off

Quote from: quelquod
Turning your router off overnight isn't likely to be an issue of any sort. What Plusnet are really getting at is that if you turn your router off and on frequently or at short intervals the equipment in the telephone exchange may interpret this as a problem with the telephone line and reduce your connection speed in an attempt to improve things. The exchange equipment can only tell that the router has stopped talking to it, it can't distinguish properly between a line fault and the router being off or disconnected.

This is how I think, but the text from Plusnet doesn't put it across that way. They clearly state it shouldn't be turned off at night for the reasons you mention in regard to frequent cycling. I don't buy it and wonder why they say it.
Quote from: Oldjim
Also Be don't use the BT DLM and so don't change your default noise margin if they think it might be unstable

I can't remember if they did it automatically or not at the time, it's been a while since I was with them. That said, I do seem to recall the same advice about leaving your router switched on, so can only presume it was for the same reasons.
peterdevine
Newbie
Posts: 4
Registered: ‎17-11-2012

Re: Turning my router off

Without wishing to doubt quelquod's reply to your query, I would be interested if there is any 'official' reply.  I feel the same about the waste of energy - according to the label amounting to 12W which soon mounts up - 105kW over a year or nearly £15 if I have done my calculations correctly.  I have to say though that since recently changing from the standard BT option 1 package, I've left the router on continuously and am apparently achieving about 8mb/s compared with around 5 on BT when I would switch off when not actively using the computer.  So I'm torn between a good Internet connection and my instincts not to waste.  Look forward to other comments
Moderator
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Re: Turning my router off

I never turn off my router except when absolutely necessary when going away for more than a day or it requires a power reset due to some issue. It's also in a not-so-easy-to-access place.
My understanding is that, say, you turn off at night but don't turn it back on till you get home from work between 5 & 6pm. With lights coming on and others doing similar then you may likely resync at a lower rate than if you power on late morning or early afternoon.

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davidj66
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Registered: ‎04-09-2008

Re: Turning my router off

Most routers/psus are more likely to fail sooner if switched on and off regularly;its a balance between electrical cost and router replacement cost..
Razer
Grafter
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Registered: ‎17-11-2012

Re: Turning my router off

Quote from: Mav
My understanding is that, say, you turn off at night but don't turn it back on till you get home from work between 5 & 6pm. With lights coming on and others doing similar then you may likely resync at a lower rate than if you power on late morning or early afternoon.

I can understand that. In my past experience, with even frequent cycling, I never had issues of lower resyncs.
Quote from: davidj60
Most routers/psus are more likely to fail sooner if switched on and off regularly;its a balance between electrical cost and router replacement cost..

Isn't that true of most anything? In fact, most things are more likely to fail if we use them at all, so let's just not. That way they'll last for years. Cheesy
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Registered: ‎14-07-2009

Re: Turning my router off

Quote from: Razer
I previously had a sterling service from BE and turned my router off every night and never lost any speed at all (24Mb every day, without fail). So what is different about Plusnet..?

Easy question; BE install their own equipment in the telephone exchange whilst Plusnet use the BT equipment.  It's the BT equipment that may take against unexpected disconnections.
If you want to switch off your router, log on to the router, disconnect the PPP session then switch it off.  That should not cause any problems. 
Razer
Grafter
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Registered: ‎17-11-2012

Re: Turning my router off

Thank you for that tip. I'll do that. I take it you mean the Disconnect button under Broadband Connection: Internet.
Community Veteran
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Registered: ‎31-08-2007

Re: Turning my router off

Yes use the Disconnect method, but the rest all depends on how far from the exchange you are and how good your line is. If your noise margin tends to drop much after dusk and doesn't recover until after sunrise, then switching it on between those times can result in lower sync speeds.
If you are close to the exchange for example and get 20-24Mbps it probably won't make the slightest difference (unless your line is faulty),
Razer
Grafter
Posts: 1,398
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Registered: ‎17-11-2012

Re: Turning my router off

From day 1 on phone extension
Uptime: 1 day, 15:30:02
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 32,3 / 6,4
Day 3 on phone extension
Uptime: 0 days, 2:00:48
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 32,6 / 6,0
Then did some testing which naturally involved resyncs.
In Master socket
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 32,2 / 6,0
Test socket
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 32,1 / 6,1
back to extension
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 32,3 / 5,7
Today, having used disconnet last night via interface:
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 32,0 / 5,5
I'm not noticing SN changes between day and dusk as it's on all day and doesn't resync (I've only once had a resynch, think that was on my second day - been connected since 13th Nov). Very close to exchange, download speed generally floating around 19Mb.
Community Veteran
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Re: Turning my router off

If you post the full stats you could have more informed comment, but it does sound quite good and nothing really to worry about.
Razer
Grafter
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Registered: ‎17-11-2012

Re: Turning my router off

Oh, ok. I just didn't want to blast you with a load of data and as you just mentioned SN, I thought I'd confine my reply to that. I've been a bit forgetful with stats, meaning to keep a regular copy and keep forgetting to copy every time I disconnect. But here's the limited stats I have:
ON EXTENSION
Uptime: 1 day, 15:30:02
DSL Type: ITU-T G.992.5
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 443 / 21.847
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [MB/MB]: 10,53 / 270,31
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12,7 / 0,0
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 8,6 / 16,5
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 32,3 / 6,4
System Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / ----
Chipset Vendor ID (Local/Remote): BDCM / IFTN
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Link (Remote): -
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 582 / 0
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 0
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 3 / 1.107
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 1 / 20.423
------------------------------------
ON EXTENSION
Uptime: 0 days, 2:00:48
DSL Type: ITU-T G.992.5
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 443 / 22.214
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [kB/MB]: 417,47 / 4,29
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12,8 / 0,0
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 8,6 / 16,5
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 32,6 / 6,0
System Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / ----
Chipset Vendor ID (Local/Remote): BDCM / IFTN
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Link (Remote): -
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 40 / 0
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 0
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 2 / 44
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 2 / 436
------------------------------------
ON FILTER IN MASTER SOCKET
Uptime: 0 days, 0:06:16
DSL Type: ITU-T G.992.5
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 443 / 22.222
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [MB/MB]: 3,38 / 40,93
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12,8 / 0,0
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 8,5 / 16,0
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 32,2 / 6,0
System Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / ----
Chipset Vendor ID (Local/Remote): BDCM / IFTN
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Link (Remote): -
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 1 / 0
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 0
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 1
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 0
------------------------------------
ON FILTER IN TEST SOCKET
Uptime: 0 days, 0:16:25
DSL Type: ITU-T G.992.5
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 443 / 22.254
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [MB/MB]: 2,20 / 23,29
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12,9 / 0,0
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 8,5 / 15,5
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 32,1 / 6,1
System Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / ----
Chipset Vendor ID (Local/Remote): BDCM / IFTN
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Link (Remote): -
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 0
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 0
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 0
------------------------------------
ON EXTENSION Sunday 18 Nov 19.22
Uptime: 0 days, 10:50:52
DSL Type: ITU-T G.992.5
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 443 / 22.051
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [MB/MB]: 259,45 / 46,66
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12,8 / 0,0
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 8,6 / 16,5
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 32,3 / 5,7
System Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / ----
Chipset Vendor ID (Local/Remote): BDCM / IFTN
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Link (Remote): -
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 166 / 0
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 0
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 243
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 3.754
And todays:
Uptime: 0 days, 4:23:15
DSL Type: ITU-T G.992.5
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 443 / 22.254
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [MB/GB]: 28,58 / 1,67
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12,6 / 0,0
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 8,6 / 16,5
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 32,0 / 5,5
System Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / ----
Chipset Vendor ID (Local/Remote): BDCM / IFTN
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Link (Remote): -
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 59 / 0
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 0
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 63
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 595
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,101
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Registered: ‎31-08-2007

Re: Turning my router off

Your line is performing well, at around the expected speeds for your distance from the exchange, It's obviously picking up a small amount of noise, nothing really to worry about.You could just check if you wanted, that there are no bell wires connected to terminals 3 & 4 at the master removable face plate and extension socket(s). If there is, removing them may give you a marginal improvement and a reduction in the errors.