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Trinitarian broadband!!!

avodat
Grafter
Posts: 128
Registered: ‎25-07-2014

Trinitarian broadband!!!

Oh dear, I have no idea what I am doing, but I'm told I should start (somewhere?) a new topic about my broadband dropping every 3 days, regularly. Now you know the problem. I've tried raising a 'fault' but was told that I should stop posting information because they could not do anything but, on the other hand, if I upgraded... . I then started posting on these fora but now that, too, is blocked and I have to start again somewhere else - hopefully here!
I was also told to raise another fault - clicked on the link I was given and all I got was the Broadband Tester - ran that and it just said if you still have a problem, speak with our support staff  Embarrassed Embarrassed Embarrassed Embarrassed Embarrassed Embarrassed Embarrassed  I've been doing that for weeks  Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr    Lousy customer service!  I'm just going round and round in circles with all this: raise a 'fault', we can't help, upgrade?, post on the forum, can't find the fault, raise another 'fault, supply all the data, raise another fault, follow the link, and all it says is - speak with our support staff! And I'm not meant to get stressed!!!!
I was also told that I should post a lot of data here, not that I understand much of it at all - if you can see what the problem is, please tell me, and PlusNet as they seem not know, either! The regular 3rd day drop started just after my first year with Plusnet ended in May / June 2014 and has continued for a number of weeks
So here goes:
Link Information

Uptime: 1 day, 18:11:57
DSL Type: ITU-T G.992.5
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 1.236 / 15.180
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [MB/MB]: 78,70 / 913,66
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12,8 / 0,0
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 10,8 / 22,5
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 6,1 / 3,3
System Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / ----
Chipset Vendor ID (Local/Remote): BDCM / IFTN
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Link (Remote): -
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 800 / 0
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 680 / 34.580.287
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 126 / 1.642
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 113 / 65.833

FAQ
Results Image not loaded
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. Best Effort Test: -provides background information.
Download  Speed
12.34 Mbps

0 Mbps 21 Mbps
Max Achievable Speed
Download speedachieved during the test was - 12.34 Mbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speeds is 4 Mbps-21 Mbps.
IP Profile for your line is - 13.39 Mbps
2. Upstream Test: -provides background information.
Upload Speed
0.44 Mbps

0 Mbps 0.83 Mbps
Max Achievable Speed
Upload speed achieved during the test was - 0.44Mbps
Additional Information:
Upstream Rate IP profile on your line is - 0.83 Mbps

We were unable to identify any performance problem with your service at this time.
It is possible that any problem you are currently, or had previously experienced may have been caused by traffic congestion on the Internet or by the server you were accessing responding slowly.
If you continue to encounter a problem with a specific server, please contact the administrator of that server in the first instance.

Please visit the FAQ if you are unable to understand the test results.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Estimated line speed:
   There's no speed estimate currently held on your account.
Current line speed:
   13.4 Mb
304 REPLIES
Community Veteran
Posts: 38,460
Thanks: 1,031
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Registered: ‎15-06-2007

Re: Trinitarian broadband!!!

I have no idea why you would be told
Quote
Now you know the problem. I've tried raising a 'fault' but was told that I should stop posting information because they could not do anything but, on the other hand, if I upgraded... . I then started posting on these fora but now that, too, is blocked and I have to start again somewhere else - hopefully here!
but with respect to these forums it is always better to have your own thread
Can you advise whether the drop is always at about the same time or is it random
Looking at your stats you have a lot of errors
There is one way out of this which is to have the default noise margin increased from 3dB to 6dB which may well solve the problem but with a bit lower speeds
Regarding the upstream speed result this is a bit lower than would have been expected
Can you run this speed test and provide a link to the result http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest.html?utm_source=mainsite&utm_medium=navigation&utm_campaign=...
For the benefit of others this was the original thread http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,129746.0.html
Acassim
Grafter
Posts: 1,075
Thanks: 1
Registered: ‎11-06-2007

Re: Trinitarian broadband!!!

Hi Avodat,
I'm sorry to hear that you're having problems and I'm sorry to hear that someone pushed you to the forums for further support, this certainly shouldn't be the case where a fault is concerned as the support team should raise this for you on the call and have the problems investigated.
I note from your account that you raised a fault with us online today and this is now awaiting the outcome of diagnostic tests which should hopefully allow us to see the cause of the issue and then arrange for a fix to be applied.
I took a look at your connection logs and can see a couple of disconnections however this doesn't seem to be too widespread so I'm wondering if there could be another issue at play here.
<img src="http://community.plus.net/visualradius/generated/image14084654335903.png"/>
If you keep an eye on this support ticket we will have details on the diagnostics back from the supplier for you within 24 hours.
avodat
Grafter
Posts: 128
Registered: ‎25-07-2014

Re: Trinitarian broadband!!!

Oldjim: The drop is every three days - variable times within the pm time frame. Often mid-afternoon when it is on a Saturday / Sunday. Other times can be additional to those times but almost always spaced at 3 days.
Link: http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest.html?utm_source=mainsite&utm_medium=navigation&utm_campaign=...

Adam C - I was not at home from 8th to 18th August - I was on holiday and my computers were switched off.
Community Veteran
Posts: 38,460
Thanks: 1,031
Fixes: 62
Registered: ‎15-06-2007

Re: Trinitarian broadband!!!

That isn't the link to the speed test
However your last statement is interesting as it implies that you don't lose connection except when the computers are switched on
When the router loses connection does it actually reboot or does it lose the internet or does the DSL go down
Next time it happens, if you aren't sure which, go to the router log http://192.168.1.254/cgi/b/events/?be=0&l0=1&l1=2 and copy/paste the result
avodat
Grafter
Posts: 128
Registered: ‎25-07-2014

Re: Trinitarian broadband!!!

Oldjim - I went through the speed-test and got all the results, then I cut and pasted the URL :-(     I just tried it and only goes to the home page! I did click on the bit that says send the data and open to see the test results - that was the page link I gave you.    TRY THIS LINK - I've just run the test again: http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/results.html?id=140854661447319197629
I would not entirely run with your 2nd sentence- I only know I have a drop when the computer is switched on - I would not know at other times, would I?  I was questioning why it says on Adam's post that I was online for 7 days (when I was not here).
Yes, it totally drops the connection and the red light comes on, on the router, and any page refreshing results in a 'problem loading page' warning. It often, but not always, brings up the router access page on the screen, which I tend to ignore as I know not what to do with that :-) being a mere theologian and all that. My connection indicator at the bottom right of my screen then shows, when I click to see the 'status', that I am connected to the router there is a small yellow warning sign which, when I hover over it, it says 'no internet' (or similar). After a minute or so, it all re-connects itself and carries on for a few more days. Nothing happens to the computer - it just waits and resumes its job when the internet is up again; it doesn't stutter or blink or play up etc.
I did actually look at the router log when I collected the data you requested but it was only showing the 18th and a part of the 19th. Under one of the headings there were loads of red warning entries, but I have no idea what they were about :-)
I have been told, on several occasions, under my original 'fault' that the increase in the noise margin was upped from 3 to 6, although it took several tries for the person to get that done so, in theory, that is already in place now, but the problem persists - it was at the point of having made that change, and being invited to report any further errors following that increase that the phone call came.  
'tis mystery all!
Superuser
Superuser
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Registered: ‎22-08-2007

Re: Trinitarian broadband!!!

Hi Adodat,
As the last respondent on the other thread, thank you for posting all of this data, which OldJim has already responded to.
In short, the data tells us that the line is operating at a lower speed than that which might be expected for line of that length (attenuation) and is doing so with a signal which can only just be "heard" over the back ground noise (SNRM is 3dB).  The line is also experiencing high error counts.
I need to read back through your old thread to check out what you've said about extensions, filters, master socket etc.
The cause of the slow speed, low signal level and high error rate need to be identified and resolved.  The cause could equally be a phone line fault or some obscure cause in the locality.  The latter is known as REIN and could come from anywhere.  In my own experience of my business premises which was close to the west coast main railway line, where passing electric trains could generate a -3dB noise spike, which if applied to your line would completely wipe out your broad band signal and might cause a disconnect.  Occasional trains generated vastly more interference and were assured to drop the link.
The above serves to show that cause can be from completely unexpected sources and hard to find.  This correlation took 3 months of detailed analysis.  The fact that you had no disconnections whilst the computers were switched off is very note worthy,  the router stayed on-air without interruption.  Thus your issue could be usage / stress related or down to some event on the computer itself.
I'll go and review the old thread.
Cheers,
Kevin
Community Veteran
Posts: 6,319
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Registered: ‎08-01-2008

Re: Trinitarian broadband!!!

Quote from: avodat
I was questioning why it says on Adam's post that I was online for 7 days (when I was not here).

That part (of the 'radius logs') refers to your router being connected to Plusnet's authentication servers for 7 days (which normally means you've had a stable internet connection during the whole period), if the connection drops more when being used it may well suggest a problem with your router IMO.
Call me 'w23'
At any given moment in the universe many things happen. Coincidence is a matter of how close these events are in space, time and relationship.
Opinions expressed in forum posts are those of the poster, others may have different views.
avodat
Grafter
Posts: 128
Registered: ‎25-07-2014

Re: Trinitarian broadband!!!

Townman - I have amended the post I made to Oldjim as I found the test result URL he wanted and have posted in red lettering, if you need to look.
Thanks for your diligence on this. I am not near a railway line or industrial site, but I do have the M60 about 500 metres away. In this weather it is not the central heating system and I am not aware of anything similar to what you are thinking being in the immediate location.
W23 - thank you. I did wonder about that, but although I have worked with computers since Alan Sugar brought them into our households with a massive 128mb of memory and LocoScript to load the program every time you switched on, and I can make web-sites using simple code, but the finer technical points beyond my house are not really my forte.
Community Veteran
Posts: 38,460
Thanks: 1,031
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Registered: ‎15-06-2007

Re: Trinitarian broadband!!!

Thank you for the speed test result - that shows that the upload speed is fine unlike the one from the BT speedtest
Superuser
Superuser
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Registered: ‎22-08-2007

Re: Trinitarian broadband!!!

Quote from: Adam
I took a look at your connection logs and can see a couple of disconnections however this doesn't seem to be too widespread so I'm wondering if there could be another issue at play here.
<img src="http://community.plus.net/visualradius/generated/image14084654335903.png"/>

Adam,
Was the router connected prior to the start of this graph?  In other words is the apparent not connected plot a factor of the start time you chose for the plot, or was the router not connected for the first 12 or so hours that day?
I'm trying to check to see if the router remained connected without a break during the time Avodat was away.  Is it possible to get a radius plot covering (say) 5th Aug to present please?
Edit: Given the update which says Avodat was using the service on the occasion of the disconnect on the evening of the 17th, is it possible to find out the cause of the PPP session drop please?  Did the DSL session also drop?  I do hope DSL did drop as otherwise this issue seems short on logical explanations!  Crazy
Quote from: avodat
Adam C - I was not at home from 8th to 18th August - I was on holiday and my computers were switched off.

Quote from: avodat
Only to find the drops with PlusNet are still happening - just suffered another!

@Avodat - when you say that you were away until the 18th (Monday) do you mean you did not return to the premises until sometime during the day on Monday?  The reason for asking to eliminate the possibility that the disconnection late on Sunday evening could have been influenced by anything being done within the home.
Kevin
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,102
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Registered: ‎31-08-2007

Re: Trinitarian broadband!!!

I see nobody has asked the obvious question in the first instance -
"Was the modem/router left switched on whilst you were away? "
We know the computers were off!
Superuser
Superuser
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Registered: ‎22-08-2007

Re: Trinitarian broadband!!!

Anotherone,
Yes an obvious question and one which one has been in danger of presuming that it was left on because the radius plot shows continuous connectivity throughout that duration aside from Sunday night (see my edit above).  The assumption that it was left on seems sound, but as you rightly indicate (and as I [will] allude to below) not solid!
Kevin
Superuser
Superuser
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Registered: ‎22-08-2007

Re: Trinitarian broadband!!!

Hi Avodat,
I have now reviewed your old thread to see what we have already covered.  The very last thing I want (or have some other helpful soul) to do is ask you something already asked and answered.  I have therefore pulled a number is relevant / interesting comments from the old thread to here for illumination of others and to clarify some potentially important detail.  Though you claim that IT is not your forte...
Quote from: avodat
PS. I am a theologian - not an IT tech, so I have absolutely no idea what the above posts are going on about!!

Quote from: avodat
I have worked with computers since Alan Sugar brought them into our households with a massive 128mb of memory and LocoScript to load the program every time you switched on...

Is more capability than many can muster!!

Right enough with banter, now to details.  Sorry, but this is rather long, but before we consider what might be "heavy" diagnostics, I want to be sure that nothing simple has been missed.  Some of this is blindly obvious, however please forgive me ensuring that the expectations are sound.  In past problem solving (on all too many occasions) trust of the expected but not stated has been later found to be the stumbling block of the whole subsequent investigation / analysis.
Quote from: avodat
I have bought a new landline phone in the past month, but the problem existed prior to buying it.  The router is situated in a room where there is just a phone - no other electrical appliances.

Is this the only phone / extension?  Is this phone (and any other phone) connected via a filter?
Quote from: avodat
I haven't been on-line a great deal this week - too busy. However it did drop this afternoon!   Sad

Were the computers left switched on?  In other words, when you say "not been on-line" is that similar to whilst you've recently been on holiday, the computers were not running at all?  The above quote rather points to the disconnections possibly being usage related, as during your holiday, the ROUTER appears to have remained connected for the entire duration - something I've sought to confirm with Adam.
I'd like to explore setting up some monitoring which will identify disconnections occuring when you are not actively using the computer.  Given your self confessed expertise, how do you feel about downloading and running some diagnostic software please?  Its called RouterStats, is free and can be found here - http://www.vwlowen.co.uk/internet/files.htm - we can discuss configuration when you have decided that this is something your happy to have a go at.  I will also send you a PM (personal message).
Quote from: Chris
I can see that we raised your SNR from 3db to 6db, this essentially attempts to improve your line stability.
If this hasn't done the trick (which it spears to have done to a certain extent), then we need to investigate further.

@Adam - The line stats above report a SNRM of 3,3dB so either the above change referenced by Chris did not get done or failled, or we are looking at a -3dB SNRM drop caused by interference.  This might expalin the error rate, but does rather open Pandora's box over what might be wrong.  Can you please confirm the current TARGET SNRM for this line?
Quote from: Townman
1. Have you got dial tone?
2. With a corded phone plugged into the master socket, can you do a quiet line test - dial 17070 option 2 - the line should be near silent, with no crackles etc.
3. Is the router plugged into the master socket, if not is it possible to run the router plugged into the master socket for a while?
4. The disconnections - can you correlate them with an in coming or out going phone call?  If yes, then try changing the filter.
5. Can you please gather and post the information requested in the speed issues thread at the top of this forum.  This information shared with the community will help people other than PN staff take a view on how the line is performing.  If you need help with this please ask.

Quote from: avodat
1.  Yes
2. Silent
3. No and no. It is plugged into a BT fitted extension point. There is no electrical power at the main point of phone line entry to enable a test to be carried out.
4. There is no correlation whatsoever.

I thought these questions had been asked before which is why I restrained for doing so again before checking.  Again just to be clear, what kind of master socket have you got please - is it one of these - https://portal.plus.net/support/broadband/master-socket-guide.shtml - or this - http://www.coolwebhome.co.uk/faceplate/ ?
How many wires are there connected on the BT fitted extension and what colour are they?  Is this the only extension?  If there are others, how are they wired?
If we had to for the purposes of eliminating the internal extension would it be possible to run the router for a period (on a power extension cable) connected to the master socket please?
Quote from: Adam
I'm unsure as to the testing that Chris carried out when making those comments however a fault was raised some time back which has since closed down due to the fault being resolved after a conversation with a faults agent so if the issue has reoccurred or there is a new problem, we would need to get the fault raised with the support team and have the matter tested.
Agreed that this could be difficult to raise if there are significant drops in connection which block the completion of the answers and tests however the line seems relatively stable at the moment.

Adam,  What is the DLM status of this line please - RAG?  As has been indicated through this and the other thread there is nothing obvious which relates the disconnections to anything, however the line stats are not great.  Not used the line and it appears to remain stably connected, try to use it and (IIRC CP's analysis) PPP keeps being dropped WITHOUT loss of synch.  Note experience with previous ISP (O2 over LLU?) could point to this being exchange equipment.  This is a corundum more puzzling that the Holy Trinity!
Sorry Avodat - could not resist  Grin
Kevin
avodat
Grafter
Posts: 128
Registered: ‎25-07-2014

Re: Trinitarian broadband!!!

Townman - sorry, I had to come back a day or so early so I was actually home from about 3pm on the 16th. I had forgotten that I had to come back early.
I expected it to drop yesterday but I was in and out catching up on holiday work, so I was not online as much as usual.