Transfer to 21C Network

[#1]

I have a 20CN EO line with ADSL Max Premium. 21CN is not available at my exchange, although the two cabinets are FTTC enabled.

I've been talking to BT Business, BT Wholesale, and Ofcom about when the EO line and/or exchange may be upgraded. About 3 weeks ago I heard back from BT Wholesale that it would be upgraded "never, ever, ever".

However, yesterday I noticed a Service Notice on my Plusnet account (dated 23rd August) that says "The broadband service is now being transferred to the 21C Network. The transfer will complete by midnight on 08/09/2017."

I guessed that this would mean that I would just get ADSL Max over IPStream Connect on 21CN (so no real change, apart from an uplift in maximum upload sync rate that Plusnet almost certainly don't support anyway). However, I have spoken to tech support who tell me that there is an order to transfer the service to ADSL2+. They assured me that the transfer was initiated by their suppliers, and that the system wouldn't allow such a transfer unless it was available. However, they agreed that ADSL2+ isn't showing up as available at my exchange.

Is it possible that BT Wholesale wouldn't know that ADSL2+ was being installed? (if they didn't know, who would?)

I don't actually believe that ADSL2+ is available, and the BT availability checker doesn't think it is available either. The exchange is Netherend (SSNRD).

I'm concerned that a transfer to an unavailable product might not go smoothly (I have been left without broadband for a week previously, and as a home based software engineer that is catastrophic!).

Has anyone any suggestions as to what might happen on Friday?

[#2]

To my knowledge, a regrade order wouldn't have been able to be placed unless it's showing as available on DSL checker... Mind PMing me your landline number? And I'll have a look at the order for you.

EDIT:

Thanks for the phone number @corringham

I'll admit, I'm a bit puzzled.

However, the order is actually committed for tomorrow so it's likely to be too late to stop. I'll keep an eye on this when I'm back in the office tomorrow and if anything goes wrong I'll endeavour to get things resolved as soon as possible.

[#3]

With regard to your Exchange have you tried http://www.fastershire.com/

Brian

[#4]

I've been talking with Fastershire for the past 3 years. They have made life difficult by deliberately leaving the EO lines in small geographic groups which are uneconomic to have anything done with.

Their phase 2 contracts have been awarded to Gigaclear, but they are not likely to get around to my area this decade. I have also been talking to Gigaclear quite a bit. They were awarded the contract at the start of February, but haven't even put the new lots on their web site yet - apparently it is still too early for them to commit to anything.

I've also spoken to quite a few other companies regarding 4G, leased lines, line bonding, etc. I was about to commit to a rather expensive solution when I noticed the Service Notice...

Moderator's note by Dick (Strat): Full quote of preceding post removed as per Forum rules

[#5]

I've now had an e-mail advising me that the change is complete, and another 8 Service Notices added to my account.

It seems that it was nothing at all to do with changing to 21C Network. It was simply that I'd recently signed up for a new 12 month contract.  The only difference is the amount I'm now paying compared to the out-of-contract price.

There was no drop of sync, so there was definitely no change to the ADSL. There was also no glitches in the TBB graph, so I don't think anything else in the network changed (unless achieved through software config).

So, it the end result is that I've wasted several hours trying to talk to tech support, and wasted Gandalf's time here.

I'm unimpressed with the original misleading Service Notice, and in fact the 8 new ones don't really help - e.g. telling me that my account type has changed from "Unlimited (Contracted)" to "Unlimited (Contracted)", and a separate Service Notice to say the invoice period has changed from "monthly" to "monthly" is rather pointless.

I'm also disappointed that Plusnet's system is so misleading that not even tech support can tell what's happening from the Service Notices.

Any customer that wasn't au fait with broadband would believe that they were now on 21CN - so it is rather misleading.

[#6]

I'm taking a look at this now.

[#7]

I've now had an e-mail advising me that the change is complete, and another 8 Service Notices added to my account.

It seems that it was nothing at all to do with changing to 21C Network. It was simply that I'd recently signed up for a new 12 month contract.  The only difference is the amount I'm now paying compared to the out-of-contract price.

Yeah, those service notices were generated because of the new contract.

There was no drop of sync, so there was definitely no change to the ADSL. There was also no glitches in the TBB graph, so I don't think anything else in the network changed (unless achieved through software config).

The order is still in committed not yet completed. As it can take anytime up to midnight, there's still time.

So, it the end result is that I've wasted several hours trying to talk to tech support,

Sorry for the inconvenience caused

and wasted Gandalf's time here.

Not to worry

I'm unimpressed with the original misleading Service Notice, and in fact the 8 new ones don't really help - e.g. telling me that my account type has changed from "Unlimited (Contracted)" to "Unlimited (Contracted)", and a separate Service Notice to say the invoice period has changed from "monthly" to "monthly" is rather pointless.

To be honest they're just internal notes, not really designed to be customer facing.

Every time a change goes through our system, it leaves a footprint. In your case, applying a new contract length, recontracting on the same product and getting new discounts applied.

I'm also disappointed that Plusnet's system is so misleading that not even tech support can tell what's happening from the Service Notices.

It's a system of a bygone age which we're looking to renew. Having said that, under other circumstances the service notices are quite self explanatory but in this instance I admit [again] I'm puzzled which doesn't happen very often.

Any customer that wasn't au fait with broadband would believe that they were now on 21CN - so it is rather misleading.

As above, there's still time for that happen.

Sorry again for the confusion and inconvenience caused.

[#8]

The order is still in committed not yet completed. As it can take anytime up to midnight, there's still time.

So, are you thinking that the transfer to 21CN and the new contract are not necessarily related, and the timing is just coincidental?

I must admit that when I saw the additional Service Notices I assumed that they were related, and that the original 21CN notice was a spurious side-effect of the new contract. I still don't expect there to be any change, but at least my fears of it all going wrong haven't materialized.

Thanks for looking into it for me.

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[#9]

Given that the regrade order was placed some time after your sales call, I'd say it's coincidental. I am however also puzzled as to why the service notices indicate your contract begins today which is when the regrade order is expected to complete

I think we'll need to wait and see I'm afraid.

[#10]

I wouldn't have much hope that your line will be upgraded to 21CN and hence ADSL2+ though it would be good if it did happen. I had a similar service notice when I attempted to upgrade to fibre and at the time my exchange was not 21CN enabled. The comment by spraxyt in this thread from some time ago may be close to the truth.  https://community.plus.net/t5/Fibre-Broadband/upgrading-to-fibre-and-odd-ticket-about-21CN/m-p/12287...

It could be a spurious side effect of recontracting your account, so it is surprising that PlusNet/Gandalf are saying there is actually a regrade order in place. I also got a load of nonsense notices when my account was changed, the trouble is there may be some important information in there somewhere but it could get lost in the crowd. I expect the vast majority of customers don't even know about these so called questions and service notices and probably never see them but they can be extremely confusing. My actual fibre upgrade happened about 3 months later because BT had in their infinite wisdom neglected to connect the fibre from my cabinet to the headend exchange in Hereford.

[#11]

News just in. It looks like the regrade order is now pending cancellation.

My guess would be because ADSL2+ doesn't appear to be available, as you know. 

I'll follow up on this on Monday when I'm back in the office/had a chance to clarify this with our suppliers.

[#12]

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News just in. It looks like the regrade order is now pending cancellation.

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Oh, what a surprise!

I would have been very very surprised had there been any actual regrade, as the order went in about the same time as I had feedback from BT Wholesale (as a result of BT Business querying future upgrade plans). It wasn't a case of them not having any plans to upgrade, quite they opposite - they have a plan NOT to upgrade my exchange. Although there is a widespread belief that all exchanges will be upgraded to 21CN, it was explained to me that the only small exchanges that will be upgraded are ones that provide ISDN services (which mine doesn't). Apparently almost all the upgrades have now been completed. So I'll be stuck with ADSL Max until Gigaclear provide FTTP in a few years time under phase 2 of the Fastershire BDUK project.

[#13]

So I'll be stuck with ADSL Max until Gigaclear provide FTTP in a few years time under phase 2 of the Fastershire BDUK project.

Whilst I imagine it's frustrating, I'm sure it'll be worth the wait!

[#14]

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 I'm sure it'll be worth the wait!

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Actually, I'm not convinced. As I use the connection for business, and they don't allow business use on a residential tariff (I've spoken to them about this), I'll have to pay £1500 or so for activation and installation. I'll also have to pay extra to use my own router (which I need for VPN), and then (like Plusnet) there is no IPv6 (so much for their "future proof" claim). So, although it will be faster, it will cost an order of magnitude more than Plusnet.

I've actually been down the route of looking in to leased lines (would cost double the Gigaclear price, but have no contention, and a much better SLA). I have been very tempted by some offers, and if the price was a little lower I would go for it.

However, currently I'm thinking that continuing to transfer bulk data using a hard disk, or visiting a remote site, and using Skype over 4G (ADSL Max Premium isn't fast enough since they increased the bandwidth Skype uses) is the most sensible approach, even if it is inconvenient and irritating. As I'm approaching retirement (in 8 years) every £1000 I spend on broadband is a £1000 less I'll have later.

[#15]

I didn't realise the cost involved, that's a lot of money.

I'll follow up on this on Monday when I'm back in the office/had a chance to clarify this with our suppliers.

Our suppliers have advised the regrade order was placed by their back end team as part of a bulk project to migrate your service to a 21century enabled exchange using the current tie pairs so they can close the 20century exchange.

It looks like something went wrong and the order failed. We've been advised that the next step isn't yet decided as they need time to review the success percentage and the situation.