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The cost of speed problems

Teds31
Grafter
Posts: 336
Registered: 06-08-2007

The cost of speed problems

I have been a customer of PN for many years and I have raised a ticket concerning a speed problem,Ticket No.ID 28775692 .I have tried all the usual things and then raised the ticket expecting some help but before the 7 questions I was given to answer (and thats no problem) there is this
This is also in place as a check for yourself as with any fault with the broadband service you need to be sure that everything has been checked at your end, as if BT confirm the issue to be caused by something at your end (faulty filter, extension cables, modem, etc...) then you will be billed for a failed fault check which is charged at £144.00.
There is absolutely no way I can afford to pay £144,how can I possibly know for certain that the problem by some freek of chance isn't mine,so I will carry on with my wonky speed, thanks PN for the help
14 REPLIES
pierre_pierre
Grafter
Posts: 19,757
Registered: 30-07-2007

Re: The cost of speed problems

if you do the checks requested, it will indicate if the probelem is external to your property or inside,  if external, you will not be charged.  if internal, there are a lot of knowledgeable people on this forum who will try and help you cure your problem.  All is not lost
Plusnet Alumni (retired) orbrey
Plusnet Alumni (retired)
Posts: 10,540
Registered: 18-07-2007

Re: The cost of speed problems

Hi Teds31,
As Pierre says, if you've tested from the master socket with all the other stuff normally plugged into the line removed, with a router that you know works, then you won't have to worry about the charge. As long as the fault is still present in that case, then you've proved it's either outside the property or a fault in the master socket. Both of these fall under BTs support remit. The charge is only issued when the fault is found by an engineer to be with either internal wiring or the customer's equipment.
Hope that reassures you,
Teds31
Grafter
Posts: 336
Registered: 06-08-2007

Re: The cost of speed problems

I'm afraid that it does not reassure me,firstly I have a Voyger 2091 router supplied by PN and I have no spare or anyway of getting one short of buying one,it could be that it is faulty.I cant think of anything else as I have connected my router directly to the BT socket removed all other extensions,I could try changing the filters as I have only two (one on the phone and one on the router),
I still regard the threat of a £144 "fine" something to keep me awake at nights. Undecided TED
Teds31
Grafter
Posts: 336
Registered: 06-08-2007

Re: The cost of speed problems

Part 2. 
          If as I have just done ,I switch off my router for 5 mins then restart it the speed goes from UP - 52  Down - 1700  to  Up - 359  Down - 2276, my router stats go from Up 62  down 1700  to up 448  down  4288. The DNS on the router for up  was only 1 dB before the switch off.
Do you think this may indicate a router problem,it has occured at other times recently.TED
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,101
Thanks: 443
Fixes: 21
Registered: 31-08-2007

Re: The cost of speed problems

Plusnet can supply you with a Loan Modem/Router if/when you need to try one. Your post implies that you are losing connection frequently in a short space of time. This could be faulty Line or faulty Master socket or faulty Filter or faulty Modem/Router or faulty internal wirng and sockets etc.
To eliminate your internal wiring from the equation, you need to plug into the Master socket Test Socket which is behind the removeable lower front plate (NTE5 master picture attached).
Can you confirm that you have an NTE5 and you can plug into the test socket? Just briefly describe how many extension sockets you have, and the route the wirrng takes (eg. master to lounge to bedroom2 to bedroom1 type of thing).
Power down the modem/router, wait a minute, before unplugging the filter and modem/router from the line.
Whilst you are plugged into the test socket, can you confirm that all extension sockets are dead?
Using a corded phone (turn off any cordless phones and base stations), have a listen to your phone line (dial a 1 to get rid of dial tone), can your hear any cracklng or other intermittent noise. If you need more time before the unobtainable tone, dial 17070 and select option 2 for the quiet line test (don't select other options). Have you heard any crackling noises previously?
Check your Modem/Router ADSL Line stats and post a set here. (open your browser at 192.168.1.1 then click on Advanced...|Status in the centre of the page and when the new menu appears on the left, select Broadband Line).
Post the Downstream(DS) and Upstream (US) Sync/Line Rates, Noise Margin (SNRM), Line Attenuation, Output Power, Line Up Time and Line Count.   
Is the problem still occurring?, if so power down the modem/router, wait a couple of minutes - listen to the line again - swap filters, listen again. If you can hear crackling/noises at this point, unplug the filter, plug the phone directly into the test socket and see if you still have noises if so, you have a line fault.
Otherwise power up the router again and see if the problem is still present. If so, you need to try another modem/router, if not, your initial filter may be faulty.
If you have a line fault (voice fault), phone the company you pay your line rental to, whilst the line is crackly or noisy, don't use automated tests, speak directly to an adviser. Report the noise on the line, get them to confirm they can hear it and log it and log it as intermittent with a request that that information is passed to the Openreach engineer. You can state you are plugged into the test socket, but do NOT mention the broadband (you will get given the run around to the ISP). Should you be perhaps asked if it is affecting your broadband - simply say  you haven't a clue, you are reporting a voice fault.
Teds31
Grafter
Posts: 336
Registered: 06-08-2007

Re: The cost of speed problems

Thanks for that long reply Anotherone,I will get you most of the info you asked for this evening when time is more available,in the mean time could you (or anyone) tell me how you get the info into little boxes under your posts as this seems to be a better way takes up less space,is it difficult or a long process. Thanks  TED
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,101
Thanks: 443
Fixes: 21
Registered: 31-08-2007

Re: The cost of speed problems

When you click on the 'reply' button rather than use quick reply, there's an additional options button below the window. You can add attachments there.
Teds31
Grafter
Posts: 336
Registered: 06-08-2007

Re: The cost of speed problems

Right Anotherone here we go.Aweek or two ago I started haveing speed problems,so I disconnected my phone extensions(even though I have had them for about 8 years) and put a extension cable from the NTE5 master socket to the router,I had only one wireless phone connected,I used this with varying degrees of success for a few weeks,I then had to do some thing more perminant and I have now my wireless phone pluged into the main BT socklet along with another extension to my computer,this is 10metres long,I have disconnected all my other extensions completely.The problem is that the speed varies so much I can be surfing and have a speed of 4000+ the suddenly I'm at  a low speed and the UP speed is so slow it takes an age to send even an E-mail.PN did some checks and are still waiting for me to answer them,but they said my connection was dropping and it was so quick that I wouldn't notice but BT were lowering me target speed to keep connection.
Unfortunately I have reset my router and the speed is back to normal,but I will attempt to give you the router details etc from before  and now.
First the BT test,then the PN speed tester,then the router stats.
Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test:  -provides background information.
    Your DSL connection rate: 4288 kbps(DOWN-STREAM),  448 kbps(UP-STREAM)
    IP profile for your line is - 2500 kbps
    Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 2152 kbps
May 14th
[img]Today 16:52 3187 kbps (398kB/s) 286 kbps (35.8kB/s)
Today 00:29 2276 kbps (285kB/s) 359 kbps (44.9kB/s)
Today 00:22 1700 kbps (213kB/s) 52 kbps (6.5kB/s)
[img]Statistics Downstream Upstream
Line Rate 4672 Kbps 448 Kbps
Noise Margin 11.1 dB 18.0 dB
Line Attenuation 48.0 dB 25.5 dB
Output Power 19.3 dBm 12.3 dBm
then from before
first BT test
[img]Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test:  -provides background information.
    Your DSL connection rate: 3776 kbps(DOWN-STREAM),  64 kbps(UP-STREAM)
    IP profile for your line is - 3000 kbps
    Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 112 kbps>
PN tester
Today 00:33 1651 kbps (206kB/s) 52 kbps (6.5kB/s)
Today 00:05 1730 kbps (216kB/s) 53 kbps (6.63kB/s)>
router stats

Line Rate 3776 Kbps 64 Kbps
Noise Margin 17.0 dB 3.0 dB
Line Attenuation 49.0 dB 27.0 dB
Output Power 19.3 dBm 11.1 dBm>
dont know if all that helps hope so.
I find I have an old Voyger 205 would this be any help,I do not have a cord phone but could look for one or disconnect my phone completely for a while if that helps. does the DNS value alter imediately if I disconnected some thing that was causing the problem.I haven't changed the filter (would have to go buy one,thats no problem) I checked the phone line 10707 and it was very quiet.
Teds31
Grafter
Posts: 336
Registered: 06-08-2007

Re: The cost of speed problems

try again
Statistics Downstream Upstream
Line Rate 3776 Kbps 64 Kbps
Noise Margin 17.0 dB 3.0 dB
Line Attenuation 49.0 dB 27.0 dB
Output Power 19.3 dBm 11.1 dBm
Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test:  -provides background information.
    Your DSL connection rate: 3776 kbps(DOWN-STREAM),  64 kbps(UP-STREAM)
    IP profile for your line is - 3000 kbps
    Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 112 kbps
Date Download Speed Upload Speed
Today 19:46 1707 kbps (213kB/s) 53 kbps (6.63kB/s)
Today 19:17 1757 kbps (220kB/s) 53 kbps (6.63kB/s)
Today 00:33 1651 kbps (206kB/s) 52 kbps (6.5kB/s)
those are the ones when the problem was on

Statistics Downstream Upstream
Line Rate 4672 Kbps 448 Kbps
Noise Margin 11.1 dB 18.0 dB
Line Attenuation 48.0 dB 25.5 dB
Output Power 19.3 dBm 12.3 dBm
Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test:  -provides background information.
    Your DSL connection rate: 4288 kbps(DOWN-STREAM),  448 kbps(UP-STREAM)
    IP profile for your line is - 2500 kbps
    Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 2152 kbps
May 14th
Today 16:52 3187 kbps (398kB/s) 286 kbps (35.8kB/s)
Today 00:29 2276 kbps (285kB/s) 359 kbps (44.9kB/s)
these are the results now after I reset the router ealier today.
Sorry its not clearer ,not having a good day Embarrassed hope you can make something of it.Thanks again for you time.TED
Community Veteran
Posts: 26,686
Thanks: 910
Fixes: 10
Registered: 10-04-2007

Re: The cost of speed problems

You need to do a test where the filter is plugged directly in to the test socket inside the master socket and only the router is connected to the filter using a standard length lead (definitely no extensions). Check the router stats and post them back (don't bother with the BT speedtest until things are stabilised at a better sync). That will tell us the best your line is capable of - you can then compare the stats as you put things back to normal to see what causes the degradation.
Extensions can be very bad news as they can pick up interference. Is the extension before or after the filter?
jelv (a.k.a Spoon Whittler)
   Why I have left Plusnet (warning: long post!)   
Broadband: Andrews & Arnold Home::1 (FTTC 80/20)
Line rental: Pulse 8 Home Line Rental (£13/month)
Mobile: iD mobile (£4/month)
Teds31
Grafter
Posts: 336
Registered: 06-08-2007

Re: The cost of speed problems

Thanks for the advice jelv ,bad news on the extension I cant get the computer (desk top) to the master socket without major move,the filter is at the computer end of the extension cable,should I move it. Speed today  with PN tester  down 3171  up  306, thats not bad compared to pevious speeds. TED
Community Veteran
Posts: 26,686
Thanks: 910
Fixes: 10
Registered: 10-04-2007

Re: The cost of speed problems

Quote from: Teds31
Thanks for the advice jelv ,bad news on the extension I cant get the computer (desk top) to the master socket without major move

Not even just to do a test?
Can you get hold of a long ethernet cable so that the router is by the master socket and the PC can stay where it is. Unless the router and PC are going to be more than 100m apart (very unlikely!) that will work better than using a telephone extension.
jelv (a.k.a Spoon Whittler)
   Why I have left Plusnet (warning: long post!)   
Broadband: Andrews & Arnold Home::1 (FTTC 80/20)
Line rental: Pulse 8 Home Line Rental (£13/month)
Mobile: iD mobile (£4/month)
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,101
Thanks: 443
Fixes: 21
Registered: 31-08-2007

Re: The cost of speed problems

One important tip, with all these connects/disconnects going on - best to power down the modem/router and wait several minutes before disconnection the filter or line etc. Try and avoid more than about 5 in an hour and then leave alone for the rest of the day if you can. This is to try and avoid the DLM thinking you have a line probem (worse than what you may have!) and raising the Target SNRM more.
HTH.
Teds31
Grafter
Posts: 336
Registered: 06-08-2007

Re: The cost of speed problems

Thanks both of you ,the problem now is that there isn't a problem ,it must be very intermitant ,because since I put the first post up straight after that I rebooted the router and the problem has not come back.I dont think that was the problem as I had tried all that before I raised the original ticket,the speed previously was up and down daily,and driving me mad,but over the last few days every thing seems OK,last night we had the most awfull thunder storm and I switched off the router and disconnected from the BT socket,yet today the speed is still satisfactory previously the connection was dropping but I see that the connection has been help up since last night ,now showing 12 hours .I feel inclined to play the three wise monkeys and see wahat happens ,maybe it was an external fault thats been cured,in any case what do you do if you haven't got the fault. Sad Hope you dont think I've been wasting your time ,and I do appeciate all the advice you give freely on these forums.TED