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Still having outage problems

MsDizzie
Grafter
Posts: 132
Registered: 21-11-2012

Still having outage problems

Looks like there are still some stability issues with the network and the "new" gateways. After last weeks major outage, things still appear to be a bit shaky
Any ideas what causing these drop-outs?.
38 REPLIES
Community Veteran
Posts: 4,970
Thanks: 362
Fixes: 16
Registered: 10-06-2010

Re: Still having outage problems

There isn't any problem besides a problem with the graph drawing. The current number of users for each gateway in the text under the graph seems to be correct, although the total number of users in the final line of the text is as wrong as the graph.
See also https://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,131220.0.html
MsDizzie
Grafter
Posts: 132
Registered: 21-11-2012

Re: Still having outage problems

Thanks for the link ejs.
Many moons ago I used to check that graph when I had connection problems to see if it was just me being affected.  I guess I can't rely on it Undecided
I bet my radius(?) graph looks bad too.
DanHodby
Grafter
Posts: 248
Registered: 23-10-2013

Re: Still having outage problems

Hey MsDizzie
Heres a log of your connection recently, doesn't look too great Sad
<img src="http://community.plus.net/visualradius/generated/image14099040187781.png"/>
Sadly the BT wholesale systems are down so currently I cant run any checks on your line. Once they are back up I'll check it out for you.
Dan
MsDizzie
Grafter
Posts: 132
Registered: 21-11-2012

Re: Still having outage problems

Thanks for confirming my worst fears Dan H  Cry
Shame really because I've had a good service for well over a year.
I think I've logged a fault via faults.plus.net though all I got back was a screen to say that Plusnet have all they need?!?
So I didn't have to say that I was suffering disconnects, or that my speed has dropped by a third? Or the best way to get in touch?
That's quite some feat!
I'll had a couple of files here to show the BT Speedtest and also the stats from the router.
Also these are the steps I've gone through is what I have done this evening in an attempt to gather info:
Disconnected and shutdown everything to do a Quiet Line check (no crackles or pops)
Re-connected everything powered router up took around 7mins before it attempted to connect to the Internet. When the Internet green light was on, I couldn't even get to the Plusnet main page (also checked other websites which were a no-go) (see Error Log 6Sep)
Noted gateway with this problem was 195.166.128.229
Disconnected Internet at router, waited a couple of mins. Reconnected to ptw-ag01(hurrah! I could at least get onto the Plusnet site and log all my woes)
Oh yes... I don't have a spare router to do any other testing.
MsDizzie
Grafter
Posts: 132
Registered: 21-11-2012

Re: Still having outage problems

Well I logged a call on 7th Sep because I couldn't even use the Broadband trouble shooter!
Question #91213478
Went through the "process" of phone line check, filter check etc.
Left it with the team to sort out what was going on with all the disconnects. The radius graph was dire to say the least!
The Tech guys told me last Tues 7 Sep that it was more stable and there would be setting interleaving off and other changes (I thought I had interleaving off anyway).
Managed to get RouterStats up and running this weekend.
I'm still getting disconnects.
I added a note on Sat 13 Sep and didn't get a response. I've now added the Router log to this ticket.
Also included a quick snapshot of the disconnect here
Router details:
          Uptime: 0 days, 0:33:27
    DSL Type: ITU-T G.992.5
    Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 888 / 14.328
    Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [MB/GB]: 448,67 / 1,99
    Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12,3 / 0,0
    Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 14,4 / 28,5
    SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 16,0 / 8,1
    System Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / ----
    Chipset Vendor ID (Local/Remote): BDCM / IFTN
    Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 44 / 0
    Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 5 / 0
    Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
    Loss of Link (Remote): -
    Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 403 / 4
    FEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 151.600
    CRC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 0
    HEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 0
generateTasks()
Is there any other info that you need? 
Superuser
Superuser
Posts: 10,387
Thanks: 1,895
Fixes: 19
Registered: 22-08-2007

Re: Still having outage problems

Oh dear, those graphs look horrible.  You have a nasty dose of REIN there.  Can you match the time of that downward dip just befor the disconnect to anything being switched on in the house?
MsDizzie
Grafter
Posts: 132
Registered: 21-11-2012

Re: Still having outage problems

That's what I'm fearing  Undecided
At least while it is summer/autumn I can discount the heating and water system being the culprit as that just fires up at a regular time in the morning and evening. I don't have a radio to wander around to see if I can pick up the source.
I've been reading up on other cases on the forum to use them as a course of self-help, but its a case of floundering around and trying to eliminate things as best I can. This might be a daft question but other than the disconnects themselves, is there anything else I should observe as pinpoints to the next failure?
Unfortunately, the phone line isn't pole-based. The cable disappears into the cavity wall, underground to the end of the street and on wards to the exchange approx 2km away I think (haven't checked Kitz's in quite awhile).
Superuser
Superuser
Posts: 10,387
Thanks: 1,895
Fixes: 19
Registered: 22-08-2007

Re: Still having outage problems

2km is right on the nail for the attenuation.
Watch out for in bound / out bound calls dropping the line.  Picking up / putting down the phone generating this spikes.
Anything electrical being turned on / brought out of standby.
Are you anywhere near an electrified rail line?
Watch out for electrical storms...
MsDizzie
Grafter
Posts: 132
Registered: 21-11-2012

Re: Still having outage problems

Just as I thought, its time to get OCD with REIN cases  Wink between you and Anotherone, you could write a handbook on the subject.
Would dodgy connections exacerbate the problem?
The nearest electric rail is around 2km away or thereabouts as the crow flies and runs parallel to the route of the line from the cabinet to the exchange (and its the East Coast mainline), so if that was to have an effect I'd be in proper trouble!
No thunderstorms.
Not noticed any significant power outages (ie the cooker clock, and other digital clocks would be a bit of a give away on that).
Not noticed any power drops either (eg slight dimming of lights) but that's difficult to notice during the day.
Sky box is never switched off ie on standby
Heating system not on
Hot Water 8am-9am, 6pm-7pm daily
Fridge/Freezer of course powers up when its needed.
Can't think of anything else at present... might try the corded phone and make a call to see if I can trigger a spike at a set time.
I'll have to go through all my generate graphs, though RouterStats sometimes flat-lines.
Of course all this takes time.
Thank you for your help (my husband doesn't understand the stress of trying to sort this out  Roll eyes )
If a member of the DCT could post the relevant tickets based on #91213478 it might help Townman, especially the initial findings (Loop Loss count in the billions or something like that was mentioned)?
Superuser
Superuser
Posts: 10,387
Thanks: 1,895
Fixes: 19
Registered: 22-08-2007

Re: Still having outage problems

I was impressed with the RouterStats graph you posted - looked like you had chosen the ideal settings - given your comments on the last post I guess you've been reading around advice given elsewhere on the forums?
Yes fixing REIN is very OCD!  You have to watch everything and rule out nothing as a potential cause.
Sky boxes / free view boxes / laptop screens (look up "Ratbag" thread) coming out of standby and thereby stressing their PSU can cause these kind of issues.  Anything less than ideal (doggy connections, internal phone extensions) can make matters worse.
Will try to consider some more advice for you tomorrow - otherwise busy today.
Has this problem started recently?  The above radius plot looks reasonably clean for the start of the month.

@CRT,
Is it possible to get a radius plot going back 4-6 weeks please to see if there are any discernible patterns?
Thanks,
Kevin
MsDizzie
Grafter
Posts: 132
Registered: 21-11-2012

Re: Still having outage problems

That's the point of reading forums, to get a grounding on the symptoms and to try and get to the core of the problem ASAP and supply useful info for diagnostics.
I have my suspicions on one item (XP desktop, was wired) that I'm not connecting to the router at present to stop that clouding the issue. That appeared to be bombarding the Ethernet when that was up and running. Interesting comment about 582N routers and Win 8/8.1 WiFi, its not just the Intel adapter that can cause problems. In fact, that is a completely different viper's nest to deal with! Fortunately, touchwood, my Asus Win 8.1 doesn't have those symptoms yet plus its happily logging the router.
However back to the task in hand, one annoying "pest" phone call and I checked for a spike, followed by my test call shows the spikes clearly in the attached graph (RouterStats followed up with a sulk, so have restarted).
Might have to organise for an engineer to come out? Or am I jumping the gun?
DanHodby
Grafter
Posts: 248
Registered: 23-10-2013

Re: Still having outage problems

Radius log:
<img src="http://community.plus.net/visualradius/generated/image14108638997878.png"/>
Doesn't seem to be any real pattern to this.
MsDizzie
Grafter
Posts: 132
Registered: 21-11-2012

Re: Still having outage problems

WOW! That's a mess  Cry
(and yes as shown in the graph I've just suffered a disconnect)
So... what's the next step, since both my phone and broadband are with PlusNet?
DanHodby
Grafter
Posts: 248
Registered: 23-10-2013

Re: Still having outage problems

Yeah....its not pretty  Sad
The most recent disconnect would have just been me testing the line.
I'd suggest the next step would be getting an engineer out to take a look at things. At least he will be able to identify if REIN is a possibility. Do you want to PM me your availability?
Dan