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Speed recently dropped to half

drj
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Speed recently dropped to half

For a year or so since my master socket was replaced I've had speeds usually of around 4Mbps - it was 2Mbps and falling before that. However just recently I've noticed it's suddenly dropped to little more than half what it's been recently.
I've tried rebooting the router but although the router stats increased again the speed did not.
I don't understand these figures except the last two:
Modulation : 4
Annex Mode : Annex A
Line State : 3
Lan Tx : 31725
Lan Rx : 24146
ADSL Tx : 23141
ADSL Rx : 29885
CRC Down : 0
CRC Up : 0
FEC Down : 0
FEC Up : 447
HEC Down : 0
HEC Up : 0
SNR Up : 20.5
SNR Down : 8.0
Line Attenuation Up : 27.5
Line Attenuation Down : 53.0
Data Rate Up : 440
Data Rate Down : 5273
The "data rate down" had dropped to around 2700 before the reboot - it was previously about 5000. Since that's gone back up why is the speed being achieved still down at 2.27Mbps? The attached seems to suggest it should be higher. Please advise how I can get back up to around 4Mbps. Nothing technical please.
63 REPLIES
Community Veteran
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Re: Speed recently dropped to half

Just wait a couple of days for your Plusnet Current Line Speed to be automatically updated to match the BT IP Profile. Do not reboot your modem/router while waiting. Or ask Plusnet to manually change the current line speed sooner.
Community Veteran
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Re: Speed recently dropped to half

Your upstream is capped as well - ask for it to be uncapped to improve performance.
drj
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Re: Speed recently dropped to half

For info the upstream appears to have been capped after the Openreach upgrade where the engineer said he was doing it owing to the extension wiring in the house - but he didn't say what the problem might be with the wiring, and to be honest it doesn't cause me any problems. Previously I'd always expected upload speed to be about a quarter of the download, and it was actually a bit more than that - more like 2Mbps down, 0.8Mbps up.
Superuser
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Re: Speed recently dropped to half

Hi drj,
To sort out technology, you are going to have to get technical and ditch some of your (technophobe ?) presumptions.
There is no relationship between upstream and down stream speeds the 25% relationship you implied does not exist.  "Capped" adsl is 440 or 448 (IIRC) depending on WBC service type.  If you are on a 21CN service it can be uncapped for free and depending on you lime quality could reach 1.2Mbps.  For 20CN services there is a Max Priemium service (chargeable pcm) which delivers higher US.
You might not know or understand the effects of poor internal extension wiring, but that can be quite detrimental to attaining the best out of adsl.  So if the engineer stated that it was causing issues, you (we) had better ensure it is elimininated from the equation before seeking to engage PlusNET.  Please take a look at the speed issues thread - link below.
Please describe your extension wiring.  How many sockets.  What kind of wiring?  Does the wire go from one socket to the next (daisy chained) or are some / all (star) wired from the same point?
If the extensions are wired off the back of the lower faceplate on the master socket - what colour are the wires?  Which terminal is each colour connected to?  If there are 3 wires that in its self will cause problems.
Is there any noise on the line?  Dial 17070 option 2 using a corded phone plugged into the master socket.  Do this test regularly at different times of day in different weather conditions.  Intermittent noise is a real killer of good broadband.
Are you using the router in the master socket?  If not, please do the following, but please ensure you do a graceful disconnect of the internet connection.  To do this log into your router and find the disconnect PPP session option BEFORE disconnecting the router from the line or powering it down.  Note you might find that you need to log into the router to manually reconnect.  If you do not know how to do this see the guidance in the speed issues thread.
Post the current stats with the router where it is.
Connect it to the master socket and post the stats.
Remove the lower face plate from the master socket (disconnects the extensions) and plug the router into the test socket, get and post the stats.
The difference in stats will indentify the affect of the internal wiring on your broadband service.  It will identify what you can do yourself to improve things and what you need from PlusNET to improve things.  It is also the process you will need to go through before PlusNET can process a fault report... which is where I suspect you will end up.
Community Gaffer
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Re: Speed recently dropped to half

The errored seconds on your line don't look fantastic, 90 is a few more than I'd like to see really.
With an attenuation of 53 you might get a slightly improvement on your speeds, but I wouldn't expect a huge amount more.
              UP    DOWN
Loop Loss:  27.8  53.0 
SNR Margin:  19.5  8.6 
Errored Seconds:  0  90 
HEC Errors:  7 
Speed:  440  4441 

If this post resolved your issue please click the 'This fixed my problem' button
 Chris Parr
 Plusnet Staff
drj
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Re: Speed recently dropped to half

Quote from: Townman
To sort out technology, you are going to have to get technical and ditch some of your (technophobe ?) presumptions.

Thank you for responding in detail. Please note however that I am most definitely NOT a technophobe - more a technophile. I would reckon myself to be reasonably computer-literate when it comes to operating computers but ISPs and certain forum contributors frequently use language which is incomprehensible to ordinary people using ordinary computers in ordinary ways. Please don't assume everyone has degree or even A level electronics experience.
Quote from: Townman
There is no relationship between upstream and down stream speeds the 25% relationship you implied does not exist.  

It certainly used to - it was thus on both the previous ISPs I used before switching to Plusnet several years ago.
Quote from: Townman
"Capped" adsl is 440 or 448 (IIRC) depending on WBC service type.  If you are on a 21CN service it can be uncapped for free and depending on you lime quality could reach 1.2Mbps.  For 20CN services there is a Max Priemium service (chargeable pcm) which delivers higher US.

Sorry - meaningless technology-speak.
Quote from: Townman
You might not know or understand the effects of poor internal extension wiring, but that can be quite detrimental to attaining the best out of adsl.  So if the engineer stated that it was causing issues, you (we) had better ensure it is elimininated from the equation before seeking to engage PlusNET.  Please take a look at the speed issues thread - link below.

The Openreach engineer mentioned nearly a year ago that it was causing problems but on upload only.  Apart from that - and a recent unexplained period of frequent disconnection (every thirty minutes on the 15,45 point) in May which cleared by itself - I have had a reliable 4Mbps service. Since buying a new set of phones about 6 months ago I have made no changes whatsoever to the phone/broadband system - I haven't even unplugged anything never mind adding or taking away equipment. So nothing has changed in my home that might explain the recent speed issue.
Quote from: Townman
Please describe your extension wiring.  How many sockets.  What kind of wiring?  Does the wire go from one socket to the next (daisy chained) or are some / all (star) wired from the same point?

There is just one hard-wired extension - other plug-in extensions were removed when the Openreach engineer was changing the Master socket. So it was that extension he was commenting on. It appears to be a professional installation at least twenty years ago or at least very neatly done. As I say I've not touched the plug-in extensions (2) in the last few months. The speed just suddenly dropped to nearly half without any apparent reason.
Quote from: Townman
Is there any noise on the line?  Dial 17070 option 2 using a corded phone plugged into the master socket.  Do this test regularly at different times of day in different weather conditions.  Intermittent noise is a real killer of good broadband.

There is no noise on the line. I've never heard of 17070 before - I've just tried it and got the standard lady stating the line is busy and offering ringback.
Quote from: Townman
Are you using the router in the master socket?  If not, please do the following, but please ensure you do a graceful disconnect of the internet connection.  To do this log into your router and find the disconnect PPP session option BEFORE disconnecting the router from the line or powering it down.  Note you might find that you need to log into the router to manually reconnect.  If you do not know how to do this see the guidance in the speed issues thread.
Post the current stats with the router where it is.
Connect it to the master socket and post the stats.
Remove the lower face plate from the master socket (disconnects the extensions) and plug the router into the test socket, get and post the stats.
The difference in stats will indentify the affect of the internal wiring on your broadband service.  It will identify what you can do yourself to improve things and what you need from PlusNET to improve things.  It is also the process you will need to go through before PlusNET can process a fault report... which is where I suspect you will end up.

The router is plugged directly into the Master socket (very inconveniently since it's in the kitchen). I'm not prepared to do any most tests at present since this evening I've found that the speed has gone back up to 4Mbps  - two speedtest.net runs have given 4.05 and 4.08Mbps. Upload speeds have also returned to normal - 0.35 and 0.38Mbps. I don't know whether this is after Plusnet tweaking or whether it's just happened naturally. But I'd still like to know what caused the speed to plummet in the first place - bearing in mind that even when it was disconnecting every 30 minutes in May over periods of around one day the speed remained around 4Mbps and that series of disconnection events went away (although looking at the printout below there seems to be some residual problems - more than I'd realised)

drj
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Re: Speed recently dropped to half

Quote from: Chris
The errored seconds on your line don't look fantastic, 90 is a few more than I'd like to see really.
With an attenuation of 53 you might get a slightly improvement on your speeds, but I wouldn't expect a huge amount more.
               UP     DOWN
Loop Loss:  27.8  53.0 
SNR Margin:  19.5  8.6 
Errored Seconds:  0  90 
HEC Errors:  7   
Speed:  440  4441 

Thank you Chris for looking into this - but with respect I don't understand most of that.
The only line that makes any sense is the last one showing up and down speed. I've got used to usually getting about 90% of what's stated.
What I did not understand is that when I started this topic the up and down were reported as I recorded:
Data Rate Up : 440
Data Rate Down : 5273
... but I was only getting a download speed of around 2.25Mbps.
drj
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Re: Speed recently dropped to half

PlusNet did some tweaking yesterday - result is the speed has now dropped dramatically further. Awaiting some improvement - this was my response back last night:

Thank you for your telephone message. The line was down when I got in from work. I tried restarting the router by disconnecting the plug and replugging. However it just wouldn't connect - I gave up after about 20-30 minutes.
I then hit the software router button on my router page and after that it did connect.
The router stats after three hours are:
Modulation : ADSL2+
Annex Mode : Annex A/L
Line State : up
Lan Tx : 78802
Lan Rx : 66179
ADSL Tx : 60410
ADSL Rx : 59568
CRC Down : 0
CRC Up : 192
FEC Down : 0
FEC Up : 38949
HEC Down : 3036
HEC Up : 0
SNR Up : 20.1
SNR Down : 6.3
Line Attenuation Up : 27.6
Line Attenuation Down : 53.0
Data Rate Up : 440
Data Rate Down : 5262
However despite that showing a down rate of 5262 the actual speed on a speedtest.net test is truly abysmal.
I've done two tests - first was 0.26 down 0.35 up - second was 0.27 down 0.35 up.
After three hours I'm now getting 0.27 down 0.36 up.
I presume this is going to improve because at present that's completely unacceptable.
Would you please advise in simple terminology what's wrong.


This morning I ran another test    Undecided:
Superuser
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Re: Speed recently dropped to half

Hi drj,
Let me see if I can sort some of this out for you, however it is technical and there is a limit to just how non-technical it can be made...
Quote from: drj
Quote from: Townman
There is no relationship between upstream and down stream speeds the 25% relationship you implied does not exist.  

It certainly used to - it was thus on both the previous ISPs I used before switching to Plusnet several years ago.

In respect of the underlying 20CN and 21CN services (more about that below) there is no relationship.  HOWEVER some ISPs might indeed restrict the services they provide over that infrastructure and thereby create a commercial relationship between US&DS.  With ADSL PlusNet does not do that.  With fibre (at the moment) the technical infrastructure used by PlusNet is all 80/20 however they restrict this to 40/20 for the other package.  So something similar might have been happening with your previous providers.  Technically there are no USCheesyS set ratios - line will do the best they can within the service specification.  More details can be found here - http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/maxdsl.htm - and here - http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/wbc_wbmc.htm#WBC_EU_Products - all a bit technical though!
Quote from: drj
Quote from: Townman
"Capped" adsl is 440 or 448 (IIRC) depending on WBC service type.  If you are on a 21CN service it can be uncapped for free and depending on you lime quality could reach 1.2Mbps.  For 20CN services there is a Max Priemium service (chargeable pcm) which delivers higher US.

Sorry - meaningless technology-speak.

Your ADLS service is provided over one of two different product offerings from BTOR - 20CN or 21CN (Wholesale Broadband Connect WBC).  Depending upon which is available to you (see here - http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/adslchecker.php) / you are on will determine the US speed options available to you - both standard and uncapped..  If you are on a 20CN service then faster US will cost you money, if you are on 21CN you can get it for free.  You can give us some clues as to which you are on by posting your full router stats please.

Quote from: drj
The Openreach engineer mentioned nearly a year ago that it was causing problems but on upload only.  Apart from that - and a recent unexplained period of frequent disconnection (every thirty minutes on the 15,45 point) in May which cleared by itself - I have had a reliable 4Mbps service. Since buying a new set of phones about 6 months ago I have made no changes whatsoever to the phone/broadband system - I haven't even unplugged anything never mind adding or taking away equipment. So nothing has changed in my home that might explain the recent speed issue.

I cannot see how a BT engineer can assert that an extension is impacting only the US.  That would necessitate them identifying an issue in the US part of the phone line signal and relating the cause of that to the internal wiring.  Such false rash claims are not uncommon from BTOR engineers.
Quote from: drj
The speed just suddenly dropped to nearly half without any apparent reason.

That rather points to an intermittent outside line fault - you might find the issue returns when the weather deteriorates.
Quote from: drj
Quote from: Townman
Is there any noise on the line?  Dial 17070 option 2 using a corded phone plugged into the master socket.  Do this test regularly at different times of day in different weather conditions.  Intermittent noise is a real killer of good broadband.

There is no noise on the line. I've never heard of 17070 before - I've just tried it and got the standard lady stating the line is busy and offering ringback.

You mush have misdialled the number - or there is a fault.  17070 is a BTOR line test facility which offers a number of line test services - first it identifies the circuit number - then if offers a number of test options.  1 = Ring back (tests that the line rings out) - 2 = Quiet Line Test - the line is held off-hook with no tones so that the "silent line" can be listened to for induced noise.  3 & 4 are restricted to BTOR engineers.

If you want to look at this in more detail, then can you please follow the speed issues thread and post the requested information.
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Re: Speed recently dropped to half

In case the 440 and 5273 figures in the first post didn't give away the fact that this is 21CN, it does say ADSL2+ in reply #8.
I think the stats figures for "FEC Up" and "CRC Up" are actually for "FEC Down" and "CRC Down". Some Asus models do not have particularly good reputations for DSL stability.
I thought the 17070 line test facility has only a finite capacity, so it's feasible that it might give a busy message sometimes.
The speedtest result is probably low due to the Plusnet Current Line Speed - it doesn't update instantly. But the real problem is the disconnecting and presumably an occasional low sync speed.
drj
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Re: Speed recently dropped to half

Thanks both
Plusnet say the line is fine and reckon there's a problem in my house - "Now although i am 100% sure that there is no fault on the actual phone line, the type of faults only shows up there. It is what is known as High Resistance Imbalance, this usually occurs from a faulty Micro/ADSL Filter or the router itself." - suggest trying another router or getting Openreach in (whch will cost); well since people don't usually have "spare" routers lying around for such purposes I've presently replaced the filter as a first stage. Currently down to 0.35Mbps so not using it much!
17070 working when I tried it again - seems perfectly clear.
The router is VERY hot - almost too hot to hold.
Superuser
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Re: Speed recently dropped to half

Quote from: drj
It is what is known as High Resistance Imbalance, this usually occurs from a faulty Micro/ADSL Filter or the router itself.

Where did this assertion come from please?
drj
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Re: Speed recently dropped to half

That's copied directly out of PlusNet's response to my ticket as I noted in my previous response. Here's more of it:
"Dear [drj],
Thank you for getting back to us.
I have just completed testing your broadband again, part way through testing i have noticed a fault that registers as being on your phone line. Now although i am 100% sure that there is no fault on the actual phone line, the type of faults only shows up there. It is what is known as High Resistance Imbalance, this usually occurs from a faulty Micro/ADSL Filter or the router itself.
Having read the notes i am unable to determine whether a new router has been tried. If not please could you try an alternate router on the line and contact us back so we can test to see if this has rectified the issue. If not and the same fault still shows then we will need to arrange for an Openreach engineer to attend and test the line
. "
Plusnet Help Team
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Re: Speed recently dropped to half

When we test the line as part of a broadband test we run what's known as a CIDT test.
This requires the router to be turned on for it to be carried out
This can pick up on high resistance faults on the line or in the property.
If it detects a fault in the property we'll ask the customer to carry out all the ODC's as we have seen faulty filtering and routers give this result before.
If this post resolved your issue please click the 'This fixed my problem' button
 Matthew Wheeler
 Plusnet Help Team