Speed issues BT (PlusNet) exchange kit VS TalkTalk

[#1]

Since joining PlusNet my internet connection speed has been consistently slow with periods with no connection.  Going back 2 suppliers, BT, I had the same problem, so I left them for TalkTalk.  For several years TalkTalk service was good, much faster than BT with no congestion problems at peak times as with BT.  I left TalkTalk because their service failed consistently for long periods between 07:00 and 08:00 every day.  So I am now back on BT kit with their old overload problems.

I run RouterSats which gives a line down connection speed of 3648kbps.  This is rock solid.

I also ping my own domain every second and log the delay where the round trip is +- 10% of the average.  This often times out.

[#2]

Hi Ian, 

The speeds you've mentioned are really good and at the top of the speed estimate of the service provided. 

Have you made sure you've tried testing speeds over a cabled (LAN) connection to the router so to rule out WiFi being a factor in any problems that you've noticed?

Adam 

[#3]

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@IanStone wrote:

I also ping my own domain every second and log the delay where the round trip is +- 10% of the average.  This often times out.

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Is it really necessary to ping this frequently?   pings can legitimately be discarded if they impact the router's primary purpose of routing traffic - so time outs can be expected.  Many routers on a busy sites may even have ping responses inhibited.  

[#4]

Hi Ian,

A warm welcome to the forums.  Your description of your problem fits a all too well known profile, which we need to verify before we go jumping on bandwagons.  There are some smaller exchanges where BTw have not invested in 21CN equipment, but LLU providers such as TT & Sky have made ADSL2+ services available.

What are the expectations for your line?

Please use the following links to check the services available and their estimated speeds. From the first link, please record and report back the distance from the exchange. The second link advises of which fibre services (if any) are available on your line and their anticipated speed.

• Kitz line check
• Kitz BT checker

The above will identify if (on BTw supplied services) ADSL2 is or is not available.

How is your line performing?

Please post your router stats; for PN TG582n and 2704n routers use the buttons below, for other routers look at the Kitz link.

Also run a BT Wholesale speed test (ideally using an Ethernet wired PC with the WiFi turned off) then run the further diagnostics and post the results here. DO NOT REBOOT the router!

Also find your CURRENT SPEED (PlusNet line profile) from the PlusNet user portal - you will need to log in.

• TG582n Stats
• 2704n Stats
• Kitz list
• BTw Speedtest
• PN Profile

The above will provide information about how your line is functioning.  If there are opportunities for improvement - the most important of the above is the FULL router stats.

[#5]

It's yes to ADSL2 but no good to me because I'm 5.6K from the exchange where the ADS1 and 2 curves come together.  The actual line is rock solid, I run routerstats. 

Here is the Telnet stuff:

channel:Interleave

Upstream rate = 800 Kbps, Downstream rate = 3072 Kbps

UpInterleavestream rate = 800 Kbps, DownInterleavestream rate = 3072 Kbps

Link Power State: L0

Mode:                                  G.DMT

Channel:                              Interleave

Line Status:                         No Defect

Training Status: Showtime

                                Down                    Up

SNR (dB):             8.5                          7.0

Attn(dB):             63.0                        31.5

Pwr(dBm):          17.0                        12.5

Max(Kbps):        3072                       800

Rate (Kbps):       3072                       800

Intl Depth :          16                           2

                                                G.dmt framing

R:                            0                              0

S:                            0                              0

😧                            0                              0

                                                ADSL2 framing

MSGc:                   0                              0

R:                            0                              0

S:                            0.0000                   0.0000

😧                            0                              0

                                                Counters

RS:                          2864199                                2864199

RSCorr:                 0                              0

RSUnCorr:           0                              0

HEC:                       60271                    27

OCD:                      0                              0

LCD:                       0                              0

Total Cells:          0                              0

Drop Cells:          0

Bit Errors:            0                              0

ES:                          0                              7919

SES:                        0                              4752

UAS:                      0                              0

CRC:                       64                           12481

FEC:                       54                           34676

Note I’m using GDMT as this gives a marked improvement at my distance.

A snip from my 1 second ping:

17/02/2018 18:49:34 Ping to 109.123.68.210 [109.123.68.210] Successful Response delay = 70 ms.  Average delay = 54

17/02/2018 18:49:35 Ping to 109.123.68.210 [109.123.68.210] Successful Response delay = 275 ms.  Average delay = 54

17/02/2018 18:49:40 Ping to 109.123.68.210 [109.123.68.210] Successful Response delay = 28 ms.  Average delay = 55

TimedOut

17/02/2018 18:49:49 Ping to 109.123.68.210 [109.123.68.210] Successful Response delay = 84 ms.  Average delay = 55

17/02/2018 18:49:50 Ping to 109.123.68.210 [109.123.68.210] Successful Response delay = 67 ms.  Average delay = 55

17/02/2018 18:49:51 Ping to 109.123.68.210 [109.123.68.210] Successful Response delay = 47 ms.  Average delay = 55

17/02/2018 18:49:52 Ping to 109.123.68.210 [109.123.68.210] Successful Response delay = 35 ms.  Average delay = 55

17/02/2018 18:49:53 Ping to 109.123.68.210 [109.123.68.210] Successful Response delay = 26 ms.  Average delay = 55

17/02/2018 18:49:57 Ping to 109.123.68.210 [109.123.68.210] Successful Response delay = 29 ms.  Average delay = 55

17/02/2018 18:49:58 Ping to 109.123.68.210 [109.123.68.210] Successful Response delay = 24 ms.  Average delay = 55

17/02/2018 18:49:59 Ping to 109.123.68.210 [109.123.68.210] Successful Response delay = 27 ms.  Average delay = 55

TimedOut

17/02/2018 18:50:28 Ping to 109.123.68.210 [109.123.68.210] Successful Response delay = 24 ms.  Average delay = 54

17/02/2018 18:50:31 Ping to 109.123.68.210 [109.123.68.210] Successful Response delay = 27 ms.  Average delay = 54

17/02/2018 18:50:38 Ping to 109.123.68.210 [109.123.68.210] Successful Response delay = 24 ms.  Average delay = 54

17/02/2018 18:50:41 Ping to 109.123.68.210 [109.123.68.210] Successful Response delay = 27 ms.  Average delay = 54

17/02/2018 18:50:42 Ping to 109.123.68.210 [109.123.68.210] Successful Response delay = 30 ms.  Average delay = 54

17/02/2018 18:50:43 Ping to 109.123.68.210 [109.123.68.210] Successful Response delay = 25 ms.  Average delay = 54

TimedOut

17/02/2018 18:51:32 Ping to 109.123.68.210 [109.123.68.210] Successful Response delay = 28 ms.  Average delay = 54

The only common ground is BT's kit.  As I said I was with them a couple of years ago and dumped them because of poor response at peak times.

[#6]

Indeed, good synch speed for 63dB attenuation (which suggests a circa 4.4km line length), though the SNRM is slightly elevated, which might infer that the synch speed is banded.

What does the BT speed test report?

Have you raised a BB speed THROUGHPUT fault report?

As mentioned above, you are indeed at the top end of line sync speed, even if the SNRM could be brought down to 6dB (or 3dB if the line is good with ADSL2*).  HOWEVER, there is the matter of the S-VLAN (BTw's back haul out of the exchange) being congested.

*Yes at a SNRM of 2dB the curves do come together at this line of line length, but if your line is stable enough to run at 3dB ADSL2 should deliver an edge.

@adamwalker - has the state of the S-VLAN been checked please?

[#7]

Is it possible that the ping times reported are merely varying depending on how much your connection is being used at that instant? If so, then that's not really a problem.

What modem/router is being used here? If you look carefully at those telnet stats, a lot of things don't actually look correct, or some things just aren't filled in and left at zero. There appear to be a lot of upstream errors, and comparatively few downstream errors, but I don't believe those stats and I'm not convinced about the "rock solid" assessment of the DSL performance.

[#8]

My previous post - At 2dB should have read 6dB

[#9]

63dB is the maximum some routers report. It is quite possible the actual attenuation is higher.

Forget the pinging - I'd like to compare thinkbroadband speed tests when the line is good and bad.

[#10]

Actually the maximum often displayed on ADSL1 is 63.5 dB. I have some suspicions about the quality of the modem (the telnet stats look like something else imitating the Broadcom stats format), and the 63.0 dB attenuation may be a little higher than what other modems would report anyway.

[#11]

There has been a lot of focus on the local end and modems.  I have used several routers over the past 5 years.  The modem stats are not absolute, just an indicator.  Swap a router and you get a different set of results all be it they are in the same ball court.  As far as the local end is concerned  the only information available to me is the distance from the exchange as I can physically follow and measure it.  It is 5.6Km plus a bit for the ups and downs.  Also, the last 2Km was replaced about 5 years ago.  That is now a 20 pair overhead PVC cable.  What is underground is unknown.

My original post was about the lack of capacity on the network side not local end problems, I can measure them, and they are quite stable.   Furthermore, when I was with TalkTalk I did not experience a loss of service during the evenings like I do now.  My guess is that the investment in plant will not give Open Reach an economic return.

There is one other supplier, Sky with kit in the Ludlow exchange.  I will try them next and see what their service is like.

[#12]

@adamwalker,

As per post #6 - what does the S-VLAN look like here please?

[#13]

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@IanStone wrote:

There has been a lot of focus on the local end and modems.

That's because the modem stats don't look good. It looks a bit like the DLM has banded your line, if so the the DSL can't be performing very well, and there's not much point looking at higher levels if the lower level DSL is not good. You said you run RouterStats - why bother if you're not going to do anything with the results?

I'm guessing it's a modem with a not very good TrendChip chipset. Yes you may get generally similar stats from a lot of different modems, but some modems tend to connect at a too high speed and a too high error rate, which then results in the DLM lowering your speed.

[#14]

Thanks for that. 

 I run Routerstats to confirm that my local end is still connected when I get an internet timeout. There is nothing I can do about the line length other than move home.

What I do know is the 3 years I was with TalkTalk internet timeouts were very rare. 

Who makes good modems?

[#15]

Which router are you using at the moment?