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Speed for country folk

Community Veteran
Posts: 2,558
Thanks: 172
Fixes: 2
Registered: 27-05-2011

Speed for country folk

I am a computer user of some years standing and can make my way although I am not an anorak!
my usual strategy for any computer, software and network problems is five minutes on Google then twenty minutes as a guest on somebodies forum.
Since joining PN I find being a full member of a forum a bit difficult because by not asking the correct question people answer the question they would prefer you had asked!
anyway here goes
I am at the end of the line  on an out of town connection and with my previous ISP I accepted for five years or more much less than 1 mbps, in fact I was pleased to have any broadband. Usually any telephone sales person did a test and then said that broadband was not available in my postcode. Evenually i found a ISP wiling to take me on and stayed with them for more than 5 years.
Recently i joined PN and was impressed by the openness over the issue of line speed and now i now a lot more than I did. I initially was very pleased with 1.5Mbps, until recently I had a couple of incidents and was twice dropped back down to 300 Kbps. Last time the PS team took me thorough the normal procedure and I was returned back to 1.5 Mdps. On reflection the only change was switching on interleaving and I think the problem cured itself. I had had the same problem previously and had 1.5 Mbps without between the two fixes.
This is my current stats
DSL Connection
Link Information
Uptime: 5 days, 16:21:31
DSL Type: G.992.1 annex A
Channel mode: Interleave
Maximum Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 952 / 2,016
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 448 / 1,888
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [kB/GB]: 0.00 / 3.92
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12.0 / 17.5
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 24.0 / 44.0
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 21.0 / 15.0
Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / TSTC
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 34 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 65,539 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Link (Remote): 0
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 196,608 / 0
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 10 / 60,135
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 13 / 904
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 4 / NA
The question is if I have an undiagnosed problem on the line will it cause the system to set my profile too low? is 1.5 Mbps all that I can expect or is ther more tweaks thay can be applied?  Huh
To do is to be - Neitzsche
To be is to do - Kant
do be do be do - Sinatra
70 REPLIES
Community Veteran
Posts: 3,789
Registered: 08-06-2007

Re: Speed for country folk

Quote from: PeterLoftus
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 24.0 / 44.0

This part indicates that you should be able to sync with the exchange at a theoretical maximum of 6112Kbps, for an IP Profile of 5000, giving you around 4.6Mbps down speed.  However.....
Quote from: PeterLoftus
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 21.0 / 15.0

That part indicates you have an incredibly noisy line.
The first rule of troubleshooting in these situations is to plug the router into the BT Test socket:

The repost your line statistics from the router and we can advise you on how fast you may be able to get.
Cheers
B.
Community Veteran
Posts: 2,558
Thanks: 172
Fixes: 2
Registered: 27-05-2011

Re: Speed for country folk

Thanks Barry
Is the noisy line something that BT shroud fix? Or does it come with being out of town away from the exchange. As I said below for years ISPs were not willing to consider supplying me broadband based on my postcode.  Sad
To do is to be - Neitzsche
To be is to do - Kant
do be do be do - Sinatra
Community Veteran
Posts: 38,441
Thanks: 1,017
Fixes: 61
Registered: 15-06-2007

Re: Speed for country folk

The noisy line can be and often is created by the wiring within your property hence the request to try the test socket.
As a comparison I also live out in the sticks (2.7 miles as the crow flies) and these are my current stats
Noise Margin:    5.4  dB
Connection Rate:  4704  Kbps
Line Attenuation: 51.0  dB
and this is what my line used to do in 2009
Community Veteran
Posts: 3,789
Registered: 08-06-2007

Re: Speed for country folk

As Jim mentioned, the primary cause of noise is generally internal wiring, so if you can post up your stats from the test socket we can advise you on how to proceed.
Often, it is possible to request BT to fix a noisy line, but only after ruling out interference from internal wiring.  Giving us those stats will allow us to determine whether there is something internal to your property that we can advise you on how to fix, or the "best" method to escalate with either your telephone provider or Plusnet to arrive at a solution!
Cheers
B.
Community Veteran
Posts: 2,558
Thanks: 172
Fixes: 2
Registered: 27-05-2011

Re: Speed for country folk

I dont have one of those new fangled test points! but this is with my router plugged in to the nearest phone jack to the BT connection  Embarrassed

Link Information
Uptime: 0 days, 0:04:13
DSL Type: G.992.1 annex A
Channel mode: Interleave
Maximum Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 980 / 2,592
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 448 / 2,496
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [kB/kB]: 0.00 / 879.00
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12.0 / 17.5
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 24.0 / 44.5
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 22.0 / 16.5
Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / TSTC
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Link (Remote): 0
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 0
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 0
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 0
To do is to be - Neitzsche
To be is to do - Kant
do be do be do - Sinatra
Community Veteran
Posts: 38,441
Thanks: 1,017
Fixes: 61
Registered: 15-06-2007

Re: Speed for country folk

There is a small but significant improvement in speed from your previous resync which looked to happen at about 6.00pm and that may partly be due to the time of day.
How many phone points do you have in your house as it may well be the internal wiring.
Have a read here - the part at the bottom of the page http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/socket.htm
The first thing to check is if you have a terminal block and, if so, are the telephone points star or series connected
Community Veteran
Posts: 2,558
Thanks: 172
Fixes: 2
Registered: 27-05-2011

Re: Speed for country folk

I cant belive i'm seeing what i'm seeing  Cheesy
tell me its true 4512 Kbps!
I found all three of my sockets with a wire 3 but no wire 4 so I disconnected all leaving only 2 and 5.
all sockets are daisy chained so must be a star configuration. I think I have a pree 1981 installation with a terminal block for an incomer.
how soon will my profile be increased?
I'm chuffed  Cool
Link Information
Uptime: 0 days, 0:21:44
DSL Type: G.992.1 annex A
Channel mode: Interleave
Maximum Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 976 / 4,512
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 448 / 4,512
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [kB/kB]: 0.00 / 850.00
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12.0 / 19.0
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 24.0 / 44.5
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 22.0 / 15.5
Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / TSTC
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 135 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Link (Remote): 0
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 22 / 0
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 1 / 1,864
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 3 / 25
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 1 / NA
To do is to be - Neitzsche
To be is to do - Kant
do be do be do - Sinatra
Community Veteran
Posts: 38,441
Thanks: 1,017
Fixes: 61
Registered: 15-06-2007

Re: Speed for country folk

Daisy chained isn't star - star is when the sockets are each directly connected to the terminal block
You should leave it for 3 days then ask for a line retrain which will reset to noise margin to 6dB and give even higher speeds
Assuming that your line holds sync then your profile speed should increase within a couple of days - 3 maximum
Community Veteran
Posts: 2,558
Thanks: 172
Fixes: 2
Registered: 27-05-2011

Re: Speed for country folk

Thanks Oldjim, I'm not used to such practical advice. The ISP "industry" seems to cultivate a culture of lets keep the clients in the dark and mystify (I know you are not a PN employee but you and your fellow volunteers are invaluable)
Got you, daisy chained must be a bus configuration, I've forgotten what I once new  Roll eyes
I still need to find out what dropped me to 300 Kbps those two times, I think it was connected with heavy rain. I am concerend that such events will keep resetting my profile low  Undecided
To do is to be - Neitzsche
To be is to do - Kant
do be do be do - Sinatra
Community Veteran
Posts: 38,441
Thanks: 1,017
Fixes: 61
Registered: 15-06-2007

Re: Speed for country folk

lightening perhaps as could cause problems where the ring wire - the one you removed - acted as an aerial
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 26,010
Thanks: 1,247
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Registered: 14-04-2007

Re: Speed for country folk

Once you have eliminated all internal wiring issues then, if necessary you can turn to external issues probably with the help of Plusnet.

Customer and Forum Moderator.

Community Veteran
Posts: 4,783
Thanks: 106
Fixes: 20
Registered: 14-07-2009

Re: Speed for country folk

See, I told you on that other thread that getting a speed improvement required some interaction and you have tried it and reaped the benefits.  Well now you're left with a large signal to noise margin and and "IP Profile" (effectively a throttle) that has been set by your past history of slow connections.  The IP Profile should lift in a few days then your improved sync rate will be translated into improved download speeds.  However if your line is now stable (i.e. it doesn't disconnect more frequently than once every few days)  you should ask Plusnet to set the line to retrain because otherwise it will take some months before your SN Margin recovers to the optimal value of 6 dB.   
Community Veteran
Posts: 3,789
Registered: 08-06-2007

Re: Speed for country folk

As has been mentioned, the improvement is dramatic and should it hold for the next 3 days, then request an SNR reset.
A general rule of thumb is that every 3dB increase in SNR from the default of 6 will reduce your sync by approximately 800Kbps.  From your current figures, (and assuming the line is stable) you should see the max theoretical throughput on your line once this is performed.
You may also now benefit from an upgrade to 21CN (if its available on your exchange) which notes that with your attenuation you should get around 7552Kbps sync rate in ideal conditions, giving a profile of 6500Kbps and throughput of around 6000Kbps.
Amazing what a little tweaking of internal wiring can achieve Smiley
B.
Community Veteran
Posts: 2,558
Thanks: 172
Fixes: 2
Registered: 27-05-2011

Re: Speed for country folk

Thanks everybody, Including [removed] at Plusnet who was folowing this thread and has already initiated the retrain  Cheesy
Link Information
Uptime: 0 days, 0:47:58
DSL Type: G.992.1 annex A
Channel mode: Interleave
Maximum Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 984 / 7,392
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 448 / 7,392
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [kB/MB]: 0.00 / 42.55
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12.0 / 19.5
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 24.0 / 44.0
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 22.0 / 6.5
Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / TSTC
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 3 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Link (Remote): 0
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 3 / 0
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 860
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 31
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 34
[Moderator's note by Jim (Oldjim): CSA name removed as per the forum rules but noted in the hidden forums]
To do is to be - Neitzsche
To be is to do - Kant
do be do be do - Sinatra