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Speed/Line Issue - what to do next?

dragona
Grafter
Posts: 207
Registered: 31-07-2007

Speed/Line Issue - what to do next?

Hi All,
Ive had the same fault for quite a long time now, i used to have a connection of 6-8Mb on this line but somehow it developed a fault where there would be a small pause in data transmission causing games to either lag and speed up in games/live streams or it would disconnect the router i reported the fault after checking quite a few things with my own equipment replaced the router but still had issues etc. and reported to plusnet after this my line continued to reduce speed every SNRM reset. Despite repeated engineer visits and my attempts to tell the staff in the ticket that my line isn't "fixed" its just stable below 3.5-4Mb they continued to reset my line to this day i continue to have stutters if my line syncs near 4MB or above my ticket was closed a while ago and I've been away with work for a bit, I'm now on a 3rd router since the fault began too and still have the same issue.
BT replaced everything green box to exchange apparently which in all honesty my issues seemed to tone things down somewhat but issue still appears to be present aboce 4MB and I'm still unable to regain my old internet speeds so what do i do from here? has my new line speed become my benchmark. download speed for my area is estimated 4Mb-8Mb my high speed broadband profile shows I'm at 3.2Mb and am unsure what can really be done for my connection anymore?
Ash
56 REPLIES
Plusnet Alumni (retired) chrispurvey
Plusnet Alumni (retired)
Posts: 5,369
Fixes: 1
Registered: 13-07-2012

Re: Speed/Line Issue - what to do next?

Hi Ash,
Sorry to see this is on-going for you.
I can see the noise margin on your line is fluctuating, do you have a test socket you can connect to?
dragona
Grafter
Posts: 207
Registered: 31-07-2007

Re: Speed/Line Issue - what to do next?

Hi Chris, I certainly do it is already connected to the test socket at present with my own filter.
-Ash
Superuser
Superuser
Posts: 12,232
Thanks: 3,543
Fixes: 22
Registered: 22-08-2007

Re: Speed/Line Issue - what to do next?

Hi Ash,
Can you please post the data requested under the "speed issues" post at the top of this forum?
Constantly resetting the SNRM is not the solution to your problem.  Detailed diagnostics should point to the fault which needs rectification.
Is your phone line noisy?  Dial 17070 option 2.
Are the speeds you report synch speeds or speed test results?  If the latter, wired or wireless?
Plusnet Staff
Plusnet Staff
Posts: 6,346
Thanks: 31
Fixes: 5
Registered: 26-11-2011

Re: Speed/Line Issue - what to do next?

As well as what Townman as requested, have you swapped the microfilter for an alternative recently?
Chris Pettitt
Cloud Environments Engineer
dragona
Grafter
Posts: 207
Registered: 31-07-2007

Re: Speed/Line Issue - what to do next?

Hi all,
Stats:
xDSL
Mode ADSL_2plus
Traffic Type ATM
Status Up
Link Power State L0
Downstream Upstream
Line Coding (Trellis) On On
SNR Margin (dB) 15.9 21.8
Attenuation (dB) 47.0 26.3
Output Power (dBm) 0.0 12.6
Attainable Rate (Kbps) 4928 888
Rate (Kbps) 3680 440
MSGc (# of bytes in overhead channel message) 59 12
B (# of bytes in Mux Data Frame) 115 55
M (# of Mux Data Frames in FEC Data Frame) 2 1
T (Mux Data Frames over sync bytes) 1 1
R (# of check bytes in FEC Data Frame) 16 8
S (ratio of FEC over PMD Data Frame length) 2.0000 4.0000
L (# of bits in PMD Data Frame) 992 128
D (interleaver depth) 16 8
Delay (msec) 8 8
INP (DMT symbol) 1.00 2.00
Super Frames 13569559 12091435
Super Frame Errors 1 0
RS Words 441010620 1463781
RS Correctable Errors 1208 125
RS Uncorrectable Errors 14 0
HEC Errors 10 0
OCD Errors 0 0
LCD Errors 0 0
Total Cells 1913819882 228535696
Data Cells 212185306 21405880
Bit Errors 0 0
Total ES 1 0
Total SES 0 0
Total UAS 50 50

BT Soeed test is attached as image file
Plusnets speed profile shows me at 3.2Mb
as for Quiet line test is almost silent very faint background noise but pretty sure that's common on all phone lines BT engineer never commented on it.
As for Micro filters Ive had 2 different MK2 face plates with filter built in plus last time i contacted plusnet was asked to put my own filter in the master socket, i can replace this filter again if you want or put one of the face plates back on.
All the speeds reported in first post are either from high speed broadband page for ip profile or from router stats.
-Ash
Superuser
Superuser
Posts: 12,232
Thanks: 3,543
Fixes: 22
Registered: 22-08-2007

Re: Speed/Line Issue - what to do next?

Ash,
Your current SNRM is high; I cannot discern if this is due to the target being 15dB or there is now an absence of noise (REIN) which was present when the line synch'd up.
Big question is why does your line run at 15dB rather than the normal 6dB?
Can you download and install RouterStats so that you can constantly monitor your SNRM.  This will indicate if you gave a REIN issue.

Kevin
dragona
Grafter
Posts: 207
Registered: 31-07-2007

Re: Speed/Line Issue - what to do next?

Line reset took it back to 6.0 db then slowly it drops with frequent disconnectons until around 4Mb which is around 15 db routers tats is currently running on the laptop upstairs but will running stats at 15 db reveal much? Which graphs to log also? Only the ones availible through telnet will work on this router
-Ash
Superuser
Superuser
Posts: 12,232
Thanks: 3,543
Fixes: 22
Registered: 22-08-2007

Re: Speed/Line Issue - what to do next?

Ash,
Quote from: dragona
Line reset took it back to 6.0 db then slowly it drops with frequent disconnections until around 4Mb which is around 15 db

Would I be correct in assuming that you meant the synch rate DROPS after frequent disconnections until 4Mbps with a SNRM of 15dB?  If this is correct, it points to some issue with the line / environment which makes the line unstable at 6dB at whatever synch rate that delivers.  This could be down to electrical noise - REIN.
Quote from: dragona
routers stats is currently running on the laptop upstairs but will running stats at 15 db reveal much? Which graphs to log also? Only the ones available through telnet will work on this router

Which router are you using?  How old is it?  Using the telnet interface is ideal.
The graphs which are (initially) of interest are the DS noise (SNRM) graph with the DS synch speed "over-plotted" (right click on the graph and select the option).
Yes even at 15dB this might still show if there is noise around WHICH GETS SWITCHED OFF as when it does, you will see the SNRM rise higher than 15dB.  When you have the monitoring running, go around the house switching off electrical appliances (especially anything recently acquired) and see if that alters the SNRM plot - removing an issue will cause the SNRM to increase in value.  Nearly anything could be fouling up your BB with noise, phone charge, duff router PSU, plasma TV, central heating controls, microwave, fridge or as one other user found out to day, his next door neighbour's Freeview Box.
There might be more than one source, each contributing to the sum of the problem.  I had an unused but switched on PSU belonging to another router I had been testing plugged into the same double socket as my active router's PSU.  Unplugging that gave me over 1 dB improvement.
Kevin
dragona
Grafter
Posts: 207
Registered: 31-07-2007

Re: Speed/Line Issue - what to do next?


Hi Kevin,
Quote from: Townman
Would I be correct in assuming that you meant the synch rate DROPS after frequent disconnections until 4Mbps with a SNRM of 15dB?  If this is correct, it points to some issue with the line / environment which makes the line unstable at 6dB at whatever synch rate that delivers.  This could be down to electrical noise - REIN.

Yes you would be correct.
Router I'm using is a Billion Bipac 7800DXL it's approx 2-3 weeks since purchase, change it due to my older asus N55U (6 months old approx) could no longer accurately calculate line attenuation and would fluctuate widely between the range of 45db - 57db(this happened after BT changed me over to another path from green box to exchange).
Ive already tried some of what you've suggested and found that the main telephone would cause ADSL to disconnect each time we plugged it in to the microfilter change to a different telephone and that seems to be ok I'll work my way through the house today and see if i can find if anything improves, I'm assuming most electrical items will be pretty instant in what improvement is shown on graph.
-Ash
Superuser
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Posts: 12,232
Thanks: 3,543
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Registered: 22-08-2007

Re: Speed/Line Issue - what to do next?

Ash,
Quote from: dragona
...the main telephone would cause ADSL to disconnect each time we plugged it in to the microfilter change to a different telephone and that seems to be ok

That is interesting!!  Can you please describe everything you have connected to the phone line please?  I might be clutching at straws or barking up the wrong tree...  There is a limit of what you can connect to a phone line and that is measured in RENs (Ring Equivalence Number).
Quote
If the total allowable ringer load is exceeded, the phone circuit may fail to ring or otherwise malfunction. For example, Call waiting, caller ID and ADSL services are often affected by high ringer load. 20th century equipment tends to contribute to a larger REN than new equipment.

All "telephone" equipment (phones, faxes, sky boxes, modems...) have a REN value.  The maximum REN value permitted on a BT circuit is 4 REN.  Do you know what is the REN value of the "main telephone"?
As I said, I might be clutching at straws, but if plugging a phone into the filter gooses the ADSL, I'm wondering if the phone line is operating below some threshold related to REN?

Kevin
dragona
Grafter
Posts: 207
Registered: 31-07-2007

Re: Speed/Line Issue - what to do next?

I ave no idea what the REN value of the original phone was, it was a BT branded telephone (looks almost identical to BT Relate 2100) i honestly cant remember the name, it had Phone, Answer Machine, Caller Display SMS functionality though answer machine wasn't plugged in and caller display didn't seem to function I'm guessing it was because answer machine wasn't plugged in.
At the time we noticed this issue there was the Microfilter plugged into master socket, Main telephone into the micro filter and Asus N55U Router into the microfilter, nothing else was connected.
As for testing, so far i found that the most noisy item seems to be my NAS drive PSU, pulling the plug on this saw gains of  0.2 - 0.4 db however it would seem that the line has now deteriorated a bit at from about 18:30 and SNRM dropped by about 0.5db with almost everything unplugged in the house this begun to happened shortly after i unplugged fridge & freezer plugging them back in saw no change.
Will slowly begin to plug things back in to see if it drops any more.
-Ash
Superuser
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Posts: 12,232
Thanks: 3,543
Fixes: 22
Registered: 22-08-2007

Re: Speed/Line Issue - what to do next?

Ash,
Version 6.8k of router stats has been available for sometime.  This version has a number of fixes relating to TG routers (I reported them) so though not important, it would be wise to upgrade it.
it might be worth while to a controlled restart with routerstats running.  A controlled restart avoids upsetting the DLM.
1. Log into the router from your PC
2. Drop the PPP session using the disconnect button
3. Wait two minutes
4. Use the link from the home page to restart the router
5. Log back into the router
6. Restart the PPP session using the connect button
I'm interested in seeing where the SNRM starts - 15dB or somewhere lower.
dragona
Grafter
Posts: 207
Registered: 31-07-2007

Re: Speed/Line Issue - what to do next?

Just did a controlled restart, re sync occurs at 15db SNRM sync speed 3947 currently SNRM sitting at 15.1 just upgrading to 6.8k now.
-Ash
Superuser
Superuser
Posts: 12,232
Thanks: 3,543
Fixes: 22
Registered: 22-08-2007

Re: Speed/Line Issue - what to do next?

Ash,
Though small, the downward shift in SNRM and corresponding rise in synch rate implies that some (small) level of noise has been eliminated.
Can you please ensure that all intended router restarts follow the controlled shut down process.  I recommend that tomorrow morning - especially if bright and dry - you do another controlled restart.  I would expect to see a further possible improvement in synch at 15dB.  Then just monitor what happens and try to avoid restarting the router, whilst we watch the SNRM graph.