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Slow speeds, please help

flat5
Dabbler
Posts: 20
Registered: 20-08-2015

Slow speeds, please help

Hi,
I'm experiencing very low speeds on my line. When it was initially set up (mid-July) we were getting speeds close to the estimated line speed.
I turned the router off when I left on the 11th of August (bad move, I know) and since returning from holiday on the 15th speeds have been slow across all devices (wired or wireless). I've waited a few days in case things sorted themselves out but now I ask for your help.
I'm using a BT Homehub 3 at the moment - switched from the standard router to rule hardware out as a cause of the speed drop.
Please assist, and let me know if you need any more info. I haven't checked the test socket as I'd rather not move all the gadgets if I can avoid it. My gut is that it's to do with banding, but you're the experts so I'm prepared to be wrong!
Thanks for your time.
1 Router information

ADSL Line Status
Connection Information
Line state: Connected
Connection time: 0 days, 00:29:19
Downstream: 11.24 Mbps
Upstream: 444.9 Kbps

ADSL Settings
VPI/VCI: 0/38
Type: PPPoA
Modulation: Unknown or no mode configured
Latency type: Interleaved
Noise margin (Down/Up): 14.9 dB / 27.8 dB
Line attenuation (Down/Up): 22.5 dB / 11.3 dB
Output power (Down/Up): 20.8 dBm / 12.1 dBm
FEC Events (Down/Up): 114 / 0
CRC Events (Down/Up): 0 / 32
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
HEC Events (Down/Up): 0 / 7
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
2 BT Wholesale Broadband Performance Test
Couldn't do the BT Speedtest as I don't know the tel # (line rental only). Also, I don't have an ethernet capable PC at the moment so this test used a USB wireless adapter on my laptop.
Test 1 / 2 / 3
Download Speed: 0.26 / 0.20 / 0.22
Upload Speed: 0.36 / 0.36  / 0.35
Ping Latency: 41.75 / 75.50 / 71.50
3 Current Line Speed from Plusnet
Estimated line speed:    13Mb (This may vary between 7.5Mb and 17.5Mb) - Checked on 2015-07-02 19:37:16
Current line speed:    0.2 Mb
50 REPLIES
Blake
Grafter
Posts: 68
Registered: 22-07-2015

Re: Slow speeds, please help

Your line is banded.
Turning your router off has made the DLM go haywire.
The noise margin has risen and the profile banded.
It looks like INP8 (chronic banding)
You could raise it using the broadband troubleshooter but if I were you I would call in to get the line reset and then depending on the tool the advisor uses you will either be back to full speeds near instantly to around 24 hours.
If you do call,  ask if they can perform a DLM change on your downstream line rate and increase your connection profile at plusnets end.
Failing that,  they could do the old style SNR reset and increase your profile on the plusnet system and usually within 4 hours and a power down and back up of the router it's sorted.
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,101
Thanks: 443
Fixes: 21
Registered: 31-08-2007

Re: Slow speeds, please help

Hi flat5, welcome to the forum.
Sorry Blake that is completely wrong. Read on.
Oh dear, going by your Current Line speed (Login required) you must have had a very low sync event. Now the cause of that is ideally what needs to be discovered. Your current sync speeds are somewhat better (11.24Mbps) and it will take time for the current line speed to catch upto the new profile. That's not a banded sync speed but the Target SNRM is most likely high, it looks like it's 15dB.
I wouldn't worry too much about the speedtest (although that's obviously what needs to improve) it's the sync speed we need to concentrate on. That speed is near the estimated and would no doubt be nearer, if the Target SNRM wasn't so high, BUT even that estimated speed is low for your line attenuation, so this suggests wiring issues. I'll come back to that.
The cause of the low sync is what we need to first discover if possible. Did you maybe plug something into the line that wasn't via a filter? Have you had a lightning and thunderstorm since you came back? If you can also answer the following - (if you can manage to before I post back that will help, I need to finish another post first) -
I take it from what you've said you have a Master Socket similar to the one on the left?
Do you have any extension phone sockets, and what is normally plugged in where? and where are you currently plugged in?
Do all your Microfilters look similar to this?
Are you using any plug-in extension phone/router leads?
Edit: Check your Current Line speed again, it ought to have gone up to 9.9Mbps if you've held that sync speed. Don't go rebooting because that won't help and further disconnects could well lead to banding down near 9728kbps with a profile of around 8.5. If your Current line speed hasn't risen in the morning, then hopefully one of the CRT guys can give it a kick for you. Let's hope your bRAS profile hasn't stuck, that will complicate matters.
Post some more stats in the morning, in addition to the other information.
flat5
Dabbler
Posts: 20
Registered: 20-08-2015

Re: Slow speeds, please help

Thanks Blake and Anotherone, it sounds like there's way more to making the internet work than I was aware of! I'll respond mostly to Anotherone as I won't have the chance to call plusnet until Monday.
Quote from: Anotherone
The cause of the low sync is what we need to first discover if possible. Did you maybe plug something into the line that wasn't via a filter? Have you had a lightning and thunderstorm since you came back? If you can also answer the following - (if you can manage to before I post back that will help, I need to finish another post first) -
I take it from what you've said you have a Master Socket similar to the one on the left?
Do you have any extension phone sockets, and what is normally plugged in where? and where are you currently plugged in?
Do all your Microfilters look similar to this?
Are you using any plug-in extension phone/router leads?

The setup starting from the exterior wall is: NTE5 socket <-> ADSL filter <-> cable <-> BT Homehub 3 Router. There are not extension sockets and nothing else is plugged into the filter. The filter looks similar to those in the linked webpage, but slightly bigger and rectangular (not sure if I'm being pedantic about that shape, but erring on the side of information!). I think there are a couple of filters lying around at work, I'll bring those home tonight and try switching them around - unless you warn me against it!
I don't remember a storm since getting back, and the speed was low as soon as I returned, but it's possible there was one while I was away. I haven't modified the set-up since it was first installed apart from the router, but it's possible I've bashed the socket or filter with the speaker stack in the same corner (I plugged the filter out then in again this morning with some optimism but no luck).
Quote from: Anotherone
Edit: Check your Current Line speed again, it ought to have gone up to 9.9Mbps if you've held that sync speed. Don't go rebooting because that won't help and further disconnects could well lead to banding down near 9728kbps with a profile of around 8.5. If your Current line speed hasn't risen in the morning, then hopefully one of the CRT guys can give it a kick for you. Let's hope your bRAS profile hasn't stuck, that will complicate matters.
Post some more stats in the morning, in addition to the other information.

My current line speed is unchanged at 0.2 Mb. I won't reboot the router until instructed.
Thanks again, I'm hoping I can return to new-millennium speeds again soon Smiley
Stats
(prior to re-plugging the filter)
ADSL Line Status
Connection Information
Line state: Connected
Connection time: 0 days, 09:39:16
Downstream: 10.64 Mbps
Upstream: 444.9 Kbps

ADSL Settings
VPI/VCI: 0/38
Type: PPPoA
Modulation: G.992.5 Annex A
Latency type: Interleaved
Noise margin (Down/Up): 16.5 dB / 26.5 dB
Line attenuation (Down/Up): 22.4 dB / 11.3 dB
Output power (Down/Up): 20.7 dBm / 12.4 dBm
FEC Events (Down/Up): 2792 / 0
CRC Events (Down/Up): 0 / 32
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
HEC Events (Down/Up): 0 / 7
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,101
Thanks: 443
Fixes: 21
Registered: 31-08-2007

Re: Slow speeds, please help

We'll see if one of the CRT can prod your Current Line Speed to start with.
flat5
Dabbler
Posts: 20
Registered: 20-08-2015

Re: Slow speeds, please help

Looks like something's worked, we're at 9.9 Mb on the 'Current line speed' Smiley
Is it going to stay around there for the foreseeable future or have we got a chance of squeezing a bit more out of the line? Either way I'm happy, thanks again for the prompt assistance!
dick:quote
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,101
Thanks: 443
Fixes: 21
Registered: 31-08-2007

Re: Slow speeds, please help

The direct answer is there is a chance, but things are far from right, so expect things to be uncertain for a while.
As I mentioned earlier, the 9.9 was the profile for the 11.24Mbps which needed to last, and it hasn't. It looks as if a kind soul from CRT has set the 9.9 based on the earlier speed, but that has dropped to 10.64Mbps - the stats suggest it was due to a power or reboot event. If post timings and connection time is anything to go by it was around the time you made the post last night and the Current Line Speed could well go to 9.3 in the near future.
As regards the low sync event, what happens when the modem/router is off, will have no effect, so whether it was due to you disturbing something or whatever when it was powered up remains to be seen, BUT what you definitely do NOT want to be doing is just unplugging the modem/router or filter from the line. The exchange DLM sees this sort of thing as a dropped connection and with the wrong events in the wrong timescales, it can act further, so caution is needed. Don't go swapping filters at present.
Do you have a corded phone at all? 2nd best would be a cordless, otherwise try and borrow a corded phone, or buy a cheap one for around a £5.You need to be able to listen to and check the phone line for noise issues. A faulty phone line will disrupt the broadband. If you haven't got a phone or aren't able to borrow one this evening - in case you reply - I'll wait a while before making further suggestions.
Otherwise plug the phone into the filter, dial 17070 and select option 2 for the Quiet Line Test. Have a listen for crackling or other weird noises.
Also to clarify, the lead connecting the HH3 to the filter, is this the short original lead?
Next time you post, can you also post the up-to-date current stats again so we can see how things are going.
Community Gaffer
Community Gaffer
Posts: 17,663
Thanks: 656
Fixes: 162
Registered: 05-04-2007

Re: Slow speeds, please help

SNR Margin: 15.1 
Speed:  11284 
Mean Time Between Errors Downstream (Seconds):  8578 
Mean Time Between Retrains (Seconds):  4289 
Indicative Line Quality:  R 
The noise margin jumped massively between the router being turned off and then back on a few days later. It went from 6db to 37.5db, it's stablised at 15db now but from looking at the error rate and the rest of the line stats I think there's still some improvement to be made. I'm going to try nudging the noise margin down a little which should give an improvement in speed.
If this post resolved your issue please click the 'This fixed my problem' button
 Chris Parr
 Plusnet Staff
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,101
Thanks: 443
Fixes: 21
Registered: 31-08-2007

Re: Slow speeds, please help

I see the speed has changed again, another drop or was that your test Chris?
Community Gaffer
Community Gaffer
Posts: 17,663
Thanks: 656
Fixes: 162
Registered: 05-04-2007

Re: Slow speeds, please help

I did a non-intrusive test, so it shouldn't have been me!
If this post resolved your issue please click the 'This fixed my problem' button
 Chris Parr
 Plusnet Staff
flat5
Dabbler
Posts: 20
Registered: 20-08-2015

Re: Slow speeds, please help

Quote from: Anotherone
Don't go swapping filters at present.

No touching, I promise.
I haven't been able to get hold of a phone yet, but should be able to borrow one from work on monday - so will test the line monday evening.
The latest stats just in case they're useful:

ADSL Line Status

Connection Information
Line state: Connected
Connection time: 0 days, 01:21:21
Downstream: 15.35 Mbps
Upstream: 440 Kbps

ADSL Settings
VPI/VCI: 0/38
Type: PPPoA
Modulation: G.992.5 Annex A
Latency type: Interleaved
Noise margin (Down/Up): 8.0 dB / 26.4 dB
Line attenuation (Down/Up): 22.3 dB / 11.4 dB
Output power (Down/Up): 20.4 dBm / 11.6 dBm
FEC Events (Down/Up): 661771 / 0
CRC Events (Down/Up): 14 / 0
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
HEC Events (Down/Up): 13 / 0
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 27 / 0
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,101
Thanks: 443
Fixes: 21
Registered: 31-08-2007

Re: Slow speeds, please help

Looking better, Chris has tweaked your SNRM and the uptime and speed reflect that and when he did it. Your Current Line Speed should go up somewhat as well. Run the BTw Speedtest Diagnostic, it'll give your new IP Profile.
There's few things you could do in the interim, but need to be done "gracefully" and I want to look up something first. I'll post again later.
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,101
Thanks: 443
Fixes: 21
Registered: 31-08-2007

Re: Slow speeds, please help

When disconnecting or swapping anything about, it usually pays to do a "Graceful Disconnect" especially in case you've had a dropping connection, or got high errors -
A "Graceful Disconnect" means logging into the modem/router interface, going to the Internet connection box & clicking "Disconnect" - this drops the PPP(oA) Internet session to one's ISP (that's not the sync to the exchange), wait about 30 seconds or so, and then pull the Power plug of the modem/router (that's of course when sync will cease - don't just simply unplug it from the line).
After about a minute you may unplug it from the line if you need to change anything, investigate wiring, do swaps, plug in a phone etc. The thing NOT to do is just unplug the thing from the line before a Power off.
Now stay offline for at least 10 minutes, whether just resyncing, testing or swapping things.
When you do re-connect and power up, you may need to Login to the Modem/Router and click Connect to establish a new PPP session.
Don't do all this more than 5 times in an hour, then leave it for the rest of the day. The method is to help stop the Exchange DLM from thinking your sync loss was a dropped connection.
Now whilst you are off-line, remove the faceplate from you NTE5a. In view of the fact that you said you knocked the filter, inspect both for damage. If the filter is damaged, use another. Now gently plug the filter in and out of the test socket a few times. This is to help remove any oxidation that may be on the contacts. Now do the same plugging the faceplate connector in and out of the phone socket on the filter (that's easier than putting it back on the NTE5a).  Do the same now with the Modem/Router lead and the Filter, and your Phone lead and the filter
With only the Phone plugged into the Filter, plug it into the test socket and do the Quiet Line Test. If the line is noisy, try the Phone Troubleshooter found here. After that, refit the NTE5a Faceplate.
When done, plug the phone direct into the NTE5a. Repeat the Quiet Line Test 17070 option 2 and then gently wiggle the phone plug and make sure there is no intermittent connection. Now do the same with the phone into the filter and the filter in the NTE5a, check there is no intermittent connection (crackly noise). If all is well, now dial 17070 Option 1 for Ring Back. Let it ring until it stops. Again do the Quiet Line Test.
If all is well reconnect the modem/router and power up. Don't forget you may need to login and click "Connect".
Straight away, grab a copy of the DSL stats, and then post them when you can.
flat5
Dabbler
Posts: 20
Registered: 20-08-2015

Re: Slow speeds, please help

Hello again,
Thanks for the guidance, that's good to know! No longer will I recklessly go pulling wires out.
I'm not sure if I broke the connection on sunday afternoon while I was trying to set up a wireless repeater or if that was another tweak. I was changing the DHCP settings on the router, but didn't reboot or change anything physical. Things still looking good though, at 13.8 Mb line speed last night and 13.6 Mb just now.
Hectic day at work today and I forgot to take the phone home - will try harder to pick it up tomorrow! In the meantime here are some stats:
Last night around 6pm:
Quote
ADSL Line Status
Connection Information
Line state: Connected
Connection time: 0 days, 05:44:58
Downstream: 15.12 Mbps
Upstream: 440 Kbps

ADSL Settings
VPI/VCI: 0/38
Type: PPPoA
Modulation: G.992.5 Annex A
Latency type: Interleaved
Noise margin (Down/Up): 8.4 dB / 27.6 dB
Line attenuation (Down/Up): 22.3 dB / 11.4 dB
Output power (Down/Up): 20.2 dBm / 11.8 dBm
FEC Events (Down/Up): 357686 / 0
CRC Events (Down/Up): 8 / 0
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
HEC Events (Down/Up): 31 / 0
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 5 / 0

And just now (around 8pm monday night), looks like things are still resetting:
Quote
ADSL Line Status
Connection Information
Line state: Connected
Connection time: 0 days, 04:11:02
Downstream: 13.7 Mbps
Upstream: 440 Kbps

ADSL Settings
VPI/VCI: 0/38
Type: PPPoA
Modulation: G.992.5 Annex A
Latency type: Interleaved
Noise margin (Down/Up): 11.5 dB / 27.8 dB
Line attenuation (Down/Up): 22.3 dB / 11.3 dB
Output power (Down/Up): 20.2 dBm / 11.8 dBm
FEC Events (Down/Up): 15913 / 0
CRC Events (Down/Up): 6 / 0
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
HEC Events (Down/Up): 74 / 0
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 29 / 0
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,101
Thanks: 443
Fixes: 21
Registered: 31-08-2007

Re: Slow speeds, please help

It's looking like it's rebooted (or was powered off and switched on) circa 4pm as it's not showing any LoS (Loss of Signal). It unfortunately looks like the Target SNRM may have gone back to 12dB unless when it connected there was a lot of noise which has now reduced. Consequentially speed is down a bit.
What is your other "standard" router?