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Slow connection -REIN issue

RobS2
Grafter
Posts: 49
Registered: ‎20-03-2009

Slow connection -REIN issue

Just after some help if possible. We live about 5km from the exchange, but have had a stable connection for 7 years syncing at about 1,900kbps. About 3 months ago the throughput and scyn speed dropped to the point it was useless. After a number of BT visits they have declared it a REIN issue and out of their control. the source is 400m from my line and affects no one else who I know of (few houses around).
The BWM has produced th following graphs:
My Broadband Ping
My Broadband Ping
My Broadband Ping

Plusnet are saying it's been diagnose as REIN and therefore nothing more they can do. I think the real issue is that they can't find the issue and to blame Rein means there is nothing more they need to do.

What else can I do?
45 REPLIES
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,101
Thanks: 443
Fixes: 21
Registered: ‎31-08-2007

Re: Slow connection -REIN issue

Those ping charts are awful.
What's your current IP profile & sync speed?
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,101
Thanks: 443
Fixes: 21
Registered: ‎31-08-2007

Re: Slow connection -REIN issue

Good grief - your name rang a bell, and I had a look back to see what you'd posted before - didn't read everything but my suspicion then I think was that BT had possibly re-routed your line adding to the attenuation (noting you previously had a 2M service on Tiscali) or there was something not right at the exchange since your transfer.
As far as the "REIN" issue goes, did BTw/Openretch send a proper REIN engineer out for this? Do you know what the source of the REIN is as you know it's rough location?
Bearing in mind your current and past history, I'd say this is one that perhaps Chris Pettitt needs to have a look at.
Plusnet Staff
Plusnet Staff
Posts: 6,346
Thanks: 31
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Registered: ‎26-11-2011

Re: Slow connection -REIN issue

Hi RobS2,
I've taken a look through the Fault Ticket and the escalation with our suppliers. It's a really difficult one, especially when it comes to REIN. I think the key thing though, if we're unable to resolve the issue, is to identify where the and what the equipment is, however we'd b not be able to give you specific address or anything like that for legal reasons, but we should be able to give you information such as what the equipment is and how far along your line the REIN is, this should give you a good idea as to where/what it is.
There's very little point in making any changes to the settings on your line as it's not going to benefit you unfortunately. What I would be interested in trying though, is putting you on a 'Fixed Rate Product', given that your line is relatively long, it'd to good to try and see if that stabilises things for you. From a remote point of view, we're quite limited to what we can do with REIN Cases.
@Anotherone - A REIN Engineer has been out and identified the equipment that's causing the issue. The engineer has also spoken to the third party but haven't been able to come to an agreement for them to resolve the issue - there's not much BT Openreach can do from this point onwards. Reece from the faults Team has taken personal ownership of this issue and has had it for quite some time, so I'm confident he'll be able to get all the details the OP needs to be able to potentially investigate the issue as well.
A Fixed Rate Product is probably a good shout, so at least try.
Chris Pettitt
Cloud Environments Engineer
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,101
Thanks: 443
Fixes: 21
Registered: ‎31-08-2007

Re: Slow connection -REIN issue

Ah, well done Chris, as far as the REIN goes if/when Rob has the relevant info and there's no resolution, he may be able to pursue that with OFCOM.
Have things like tie-pairs been looked at btw?
Plusnet Staff
Plusnet Staff
Posts: 6,346
Thanks: 31
Fixes: 5
Registered: ‎26-11-2011

Re: Slow connection -REIN issue

Yep, part way through the fault, a Tie Pair Modification was carried out, the fault itself has been quite thorough - which is really good to see.
More than the drops it's seriously affecting the sync rate which is around 900K. The Fault Ticket will remain on the account anyhow, so if this was to be pursued with OFCOM, that detail can be used.
Chris Pettitt
Cloud Environments Engineer
RobS2
Grafter
Posts: 49
Registered: ‎20-03-2009

Re: Slow connection -REIN issue

The issue a few years ago was a faulty connection at the pole by the house.  It turned that when we renovated the house BT put a new cable in but one of the joints on the pole became loose. The issue was that because the line test showed no fault, it wasn't until it got so bad that the connection failed completely.  Then the line test showed a fault and they were able to resolve it. However the engineers from BT did not understand the underlying issue and just kept saying that it was a long line.
This time I am not convinced that there has been any real rigour in fixing the issue by BT. I have had several visit with some last a few days (and some not turning up).  However the attenuation line length according to the router has change substantially since the issue started, and implies it is now 10% longer than the shortest measurement.  Each visitor had no records of what had been done previously which mean that work was often repeated. The last but one visit the guy managed to get a sync speec of 1.9 before he left, but by the following day the throughput was 0.05mbps. The most recent was suggesting it was a rein issue before he had even started.
When the rein person turned up he believed he found the rein issue and made an appointment to enter the property the following week. However the following week he reported that he was unable to resolve the problem. He told me the name of the property which consists of a house and a small industrial estate. What I can't seem to get now is whether it was the house or one of the industrial units, nor what equipment it is. The owner of the house lives there and is very wealthy so if it was causing him an issue then it would have been resolved. However this rein is so bad that it stops  my connection working completely, but affects no one else closer to the source. This along with a complete lack of openers makes me sceptical of the true issue. I now understand that BT will write to him informing him of the issue.
What I still don't understand is why rebooting the router has an impact. For example the router is syncing with the exchange at 900kbps.  The throughput over a few hours reduces from 0.3mbps to zero. This coincides with an increase in pack loss on the graph. However if you re-boot the router the sync speed is similar, but all of a sudden the throughput is back to a better level, which then reduces over time again (or usage) to the very slow speeds. The profile is about 1.4mbps. This to me implies an issue at the exchange.
Community Veteran
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Registered: ‎14-07-2009

Re: Slow connection -REIN issue

I had a a REIN issue last year which was down to some cheap portable television sets owned by my new next door neighbour but one.  Once she fully understood the problem and that several of us were affected she replaced them and the problem went away.
I used a program called routerstats to monitor my router.  There was a big change in the SNRM when one of these sets was switched on or off.  I imagine most REIN sources will not be on all the time.
If my router established the connection whilst the REIN source was on I got a much reduced sync rate but no loss of sync.  If my router established the connection whilst the REIN source was off then when it came back on I could sometimes find myself a state where there was enough noise to slow my practical speed to a crawl but not quite enough to cause a loss of sync.
Anyway, in my experience, a REIN source is observable and pretty obvious as such if you look hard enough.  You should not need to trust the word of the Openreach specialist, you should be able to see for yourself.   
 
RobS2
Grafter
Posts: 49
Registered: ‎20-03-2009

Re: Slow connection -REIN issue

Thanks for all the comments. Theneaest house to be is 30m, but the source is 400m away.
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,101
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Registered: ‎31-08-2007

Re: Slow connection -REIN issue

Hi Rob,
Obviously the information that Chris has supplied would be accurate but based on the information provided by BTw & Openretch.
Now, I fully understand your scepticism, but if a REIN engineer has been out - there are very very few people that actually get one of them  Shocked so I'm thinking that there may be well a source of REIN, but why are you seeing it and not any of your nearer neighbours - at least that's the impression I get - is that right?
Your comments about the attenuation lead me to wonder whether there's a duff joint somewhere and either it hasn't been looked at (underground or in a large cable joint on a pole) or maybe it has and the cable joint was not done carefully enough.
Maybe this joint is somewhere in the vicinity of the REIN source.
There's a few things that may help here - is your line overhead or underground and for what sort of lengths?
Is it possible that there are joints near the REIN source, if underground cable for example is there a manhole cover nearby? Or is the Cab (or maybe your DP) near the REIN? The various engineers that have attended may have told you some, all or none of all this as well.
As far as the changes in throughput go, Reed's explanation has got it right, when there's lots of REIN there will be lots of errors and so data will continually be re-transmitted given a lower throughput over all. If you resync with REIN present, your sync speed will be lower but there should be a lot less errors.
What is not making sense however is the Profile you've quoted and the sync speeds you've mentioned.
Can you do the following -
Post  the full modem/router stats and
also the results of a  the BTw Performance test (ignore the red preamble except make sure no other programs are using the Internet) and at the end of the first run, click the Further Diagnostics button, enter just your Phone number and Run the Further Diagnostics Test. Do a Copy and Paste of the results and post here (no need to grab an image).
in each of the following conditions -

  • When things seem normal, no REIN, and you've recently rebooted

  • When REIN is present and speed have slowed, but you haven't rebooted

  • When REIN is present and you've rebooted because speeds got very slow


Could you also post your your Current Line speed (Login required) as it is now, and also in any of the above 3 cases if a case has been sustained for several hours - it will be interesting to see how this is/may be changing.
Got to say that on the basis of what you've said this is/could be tricky.
RobS2
Grafter
Posts: 49
Registered: ‎20-03-2009

Re: Slow connection -REIN issue

Thanks for the reply. We are just about to go on holiday so may not be able to get all the tests done for a week, but in answer to your question.
The line is quite long about 4miles from the exchange (just a guess). It runs above ground and is used to support the dead elms and stop the falling into the road for some, and then goes underground through the village.
My neighbours aren't seeing the problem and Plusnet agreed to ask BT whether anyone else in the immediate area was having similar issues, but this is proving difficult.
The cable is above ground when it is closest to the alleged source, but is still 200+m away and another house is between the source and the cable and they aren't having a problem.  The house where alleged source is coming from is served by another exchange. This is another indication of the distance between my line and the source.
Data to follow.
RobS2
Grafter
Posts: 49
Registered: ‎20-03-2009

Re: Slow connection -REIN issue

This morning the speed is good compared to recent months.
Sync is 986
Download is 840
Profile is 870
What is interesting is that we used the internet connection very little last night.
I am going to download something big via YouTube and repeat.
Community Veteran
Posts: 4,887
Thanks: 128
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Registered: ‎14-07-2009

Re: Slow connection -REIN issue

You also need to record the uptime of the connection and the SNRM.  It is hugely important that you watch how these vary over time if you want to prove or disprove the contention that you have a REIN problem.
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,101
Thanks: 443
Fixes: 21
Registered: ‎31-08-2007

Re: Slow connection -REIN issue

Remember Reed, a REIN engineer says he has.
What modem/router is it you are using Rob? The full stats will tell us a lot more, but as you'll be on holiday obviously no rush to do that. If you aren't sure how to get them let us know the modem/router before you go.
As for the line, well, holding up the dead elms says it all really Roll eyes Interesting that your line passes the "potentially offending" property and that they are on another exchange. Hmm, how long have they lived there? Call me cynical, but your previous issues and obviously cables to another exchange nearby, and possible routing changes back then, make me smell something.
RobS2
Grafter
Posts: 49
Registered: ‎20-03-2009

Re: Slow connection -REIN issue

Back from a short holiday.  Just to clarify where the lines run. I am fed from 1 exchange and the line runs through the village and out the other side. The cabinet is in the centre of the village.  As you go out of the village the cable turns off onto a minor road (Spring Lane), travels about 400m before reaching a T junction. At the T junction it turns left and feeds 5 houses including myself. There are 2 houses in Spring Lane which are unaffected by the REIN issue. If you had turned right at the top of Spring Lane there are a number of other houses. The closest being about 20m away. These are all fed from another exchange. You need to travel for 400m before you reach the REIN source. BTW have confirmed via PlusNet that the only property affected is me.
These are the Quality Reports from the last week:
My Broadband Ping
My Broadband Ping
My Broadband Ping
My Broadband Ping
My Broadband Ping
My Broadband Ping
My Broadband Ping