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Router's "My Home Network" instability

cossoft
Grafter
Posts: 25
Thanks: 1
Registered: 15-06-2015

Router's "My Home Network" instability

Hello All.
I've just joined plusnet.  I have one of those shiny white plusnet routers with the pink fold out feet. 
Has anyone noticed that devices listed in the "My Home Network" section seem to come and go from the list?  Not all of them, but some.  Most flakey is a web cam, followed by a server.  You can be logged on to the server, and watching a feed from the webcam and sometimes neither ip address appears in the list.  Yet my desktop and the FireTV stick always appear.  It's firmware version 7.273.1 variant 1.0.
Does this sound familiar..?
30 REPLIES
davekings
Newbie
Posts: 1
Registered: 28-05-2015

Re: Router's "My Home Network" instability

Sorry I can't help you, but I'd like to add my voice to this. The whole management of "home" devices is really poor.
It doesn't resolve most of my devices, you can't edit rules on devices, things disappear. It is all really disappointing
Dave
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,101
Thanks: 443
Fixes: 21
Registered: 31-08-2007

Re: Router's "My Home Network" instability

Hi davekings, welcome to the forum.
You need to login to this animal using http://192.168.1.254/expert_user.html you'll see more information about your connected devices under >Device Info >ARP & >DHCP as well as ability to do a bit more under >Advanced Setup, but I'm afraid the Firmware on this thing has been pretty well been cutback. If you have the tech ability, have a look at some of the threads on the Hardware board which highlight some of the "issues" and other things you can do.
@cossoft
You probably know more now from your other thread, so just to say that is the standard supplied firmware on the 2704n.
bugs4me
Grafter
Posts: 41
Registered: 21-06-2015

Re: Router's "My Home Network" instability

Hi cossoft and like you I'm a newbie to the Plusnet world. Also received a 2704 router and frankly wasn't for me as I didn't believe the readings it was giving especially on the SNR front although the speed etc was as it should be. So in my case it lasted for a couple of hours before I swapped it out.
Fortunately I have a couple of other routers floating around so hooked up my 582n and everything worked fine - the Broadcom chipset seems to play better on my line. So I've put the Plusnet router back into the box and will keep it in the cupboard as it was only a p&p charge and maybe one day I'll need it.
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,101
Thanks: 443
Fixes: 21
Registered: 31-08-2007

Re: Router's "My Home Network" instability

Hi bugs4me.
The 2704n is also a Broadcom chipset (newer than the 582n). I wonder if it was some strange one off with the SNRM values, what time of day did you try it?.
You may want to try it again at some point. If you do, don't just go swapping them over unplugging leads etc. Log in to the GUI and click Disconnect, wait 30 seconds and then power off before unplugging. Connect the other but stay off-line for at least 10 minutes before powering up again. This should mean the exchange DLM won't see any sync loss as a drop in connection.
I'd suggest you do it in daylight hours when background interference is usually lower. Save a copy of the Full DSL stats before you start swapping, and also do the same when you've swapped over. Links for both in my sig.
With the 2704n, the Uptime for the DSL is in line 6 on the Helpdesk tab. Don't post lines 2, 20, 21, 26 from that tab if you choose to post the whole page in addition to the full DSL stats from the link in my sig..
If when you do it, you start your own thread and post both lots of stats and any other useful info, additional stats after a period etc. Drop me a PM when you start the thread if you want me to have a look, otherwise I may not spot your post.
There is the possibility that your 2704n may be faulty if it's giving erroneous results.
bugs4me
Grafter
Posts: 41
Registered: 21-06-2015

Re: Router's "My Home Network" instability

Hi Anotherone - the PN supplied 2704 reported a SNR of 2.1 - attenuation of 61 with a DL speed of 2500 approx. From experience the line will not hold steady with that SNR reading. Hooked up the 582n which reported a SNR of 6.4 with a DL approx 2600. Also connected an old Belkin  - SNR reported as 6.3.
Back to the 2704 - SNR still reported as 2.1. Swapped back to the 582n - SNR reported as 6.3 so I've stayed with the 582 as realistically with that attenuation the DL speed of 2600 is as good as it gets and the broadcom chip seems more reliable on my line.
Could well be a problem with the 2704 but not sure how to fault test the thing and whether it's worth bothering with anyway as being 'threatened' with fibre in this part of the world although it does remind me of the 'free beer tomorrow' signs in pubs - especially with BTOR. If/when fibre turns up I'll swap the 582n for an all in one VDSL router anyway and leave out the BT supplied intercept gismo.

Community Veteran
Posts: 19,101
Thanks: 443
Fixes: 21
Registered: 31-08-2007

Re: Router's "My Home Network" instability

Obviously, being on a very long line, you need to be cautious as I expect you appreciate. Doing checks in daylight (with no thunder and lightning about) shouldn't be an issue if you follow the principles I suggested. Doing a few comparisons with the full DSL stats posted on the forum should indicate if the 2704n is faulty and so PN should replace it FOC if that seems to be the case. Better to have a working spare than a broken one  Wink
bugs4me
Grafter
Posts: 41
Registered: 21-06-2015

Re: Router's "My Home Network" instability

Good thinking - I'll post a couple of screenshots on the forum under a different topic as not really comfortable about 'hijacking' the OP's thread.
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,101
Thanks: 443
Fixes: 21
Registered: 31-08-2007

Re: Router's "My Home Network" instability

No need to rush. Drop me a PM when you do it.
cossoft
Grafter
Posts: 25
Thanks: 1
Registered: 15-06-2015

Re: Router's "My Home Network" instability

I've done "...sing http://192.168.1.254/expert_user.html" ; Thanks for this tip. This is helpful, but doesn't solve my problem.  I've attached a screen grab of the DHCP lease screen. 
My problem is with things dropping out of /never appearing in the lease screen, how can I create a port forward to say, BENNY?  This is a server on a static ip.  And there are two web cams also connected at this time, but you can see that they don't appear at all in the list.  What to do please?    Undecided
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,101
Thanks: 443
Fixes: 21
Registered: 31-08-2007

Re: Router's "My Home Network" instability

Did you ever get this resolved by allocating Fixed IP addresses?
cossoft
Grafter
Posts: 25
Thanks: 1
Registered: 15-06-2015

Re: Router's "My Home Network" instability

Yes and no.
I got the web server working by setting it to a static ip, and while it was in the Home Network list, created a port forward.  See http://www.reallyreallyrandom.com for evidence. 
It seems that the web server advertises itself more than the web cams.  I can't see the web cams at all in the Home Network.  One might appear for a few seconds and then it's gone.  Even if you set a port forward during this time, it stops working shortly afterwards.  See http://www.reallyreallyrandom.com:81  You should see a log in box, but you won't be able to reach it, even though the port forward is still listed on the router's page.  It just won't respect the port forward.
The cameras are Foscam FI8910W.  Perhaps there is a compatibility issue with them and the Zero hub (?).  They work with other routers though.  I can't imagine how the Zero Hub's network implementation could be deficient; it works or doesn't. Is there an arp issue. I think that I've exhausted my options with this router.  The only course open to me now seems to be to buy another router which I'm loath to do.  Any further thoughts please?
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,101
Thanks: 443
Fixes: 21
Registered: 31-08-2007

Re: Router's "My Home Network" instability

Can get the webserver fine no problem, but nothing for port 81, just won't load.
There's some threads on the Hardware board and some scattered about on ADSL&FIbre about Port Forwarding, it maybe if you've just tried adding a port forward for port 81 that's the reason, as IIRC there's already a rule for port 81 and you have to edit that.
https://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,138463.0.html is good for a read, I've listed some related threads in reply #48.
If I find anything else, I'll come back and add it here.
cossoft
Grafter
Posts: 25
Thanks: 1
Registered: 15-06-2015

Re: Router's "My Home Network" instability

Thanks for your efforts  Kiss
Just to prove that I'm not mad, I've attached a couple of shots from GRC ShieldsUp and the Port Forwards pages to show that sometimes it does work...
I think that I'm getting to the crux of the problem.  I think that it's an ARP issue as suggested in other threads.  Someone ain't talk'in to no-one.  I've been sniffing, and it seems that the ip cameras are fairly quiet vis a vis ARP traffic.  They respond to queries from other machines BBUUTT not to queries from the ZeroHub.  ZeroHub's ARP requests go unanswered.  So, eventually the ARP table entry goes stale and drops out, thus the cameras drop off the connected devices list.  Is there an implementation flaw with the ZeroHub's ARP protocol?  Incidentally, going in reverse, the ZeroHub accepts a Gratuitous ARP packet sent when the cameras initially boot.  This is how they get onto the connected devices list in the first place.  All the servers and PCs are quite vocal at the ARP level and keep the tables updated.  I might pursue this further on a Foscam forum.
I've subsequently noticed that my FireStick goes quiet too when it's in sleep mode, not responding to ZeroHub's broadcast queries, but somehow this remains on the connected devices list (?).  As to why then the port forwards to the cameras stop working, I still don't know.  Clearly the MAC address is set so you don't need any lookups in theory.  Also, it's clear to me that it's nothing to do with the DHCP pool ranges.  The DHCP actually works just as in the Thompsons, and how you'd expect it to.  Set a dynamic range for your PCs, and locate fixed IP servers outside of that range.  There's no need to use the static lease function if you've set the static IPs server side.  Unless someone highlights a problem with my findings, this might prove to be insoluble without a firmware upgrade.
P.S.  One certain way of resolving this is to ask for comment from a ZeroHub user who has Foscams in their LAN.  There must be loads of them...
Superuser
Superuser
Posts: 6,641
Thanks: 733
Fixes: 52
Registered: 30-07-2007

Re: Router's "My Home Network" instability

Quote
I've been sniffing, and it seems that the ip cameras are fairly quiet vis a vis ARP traffic.  They respond to queries from other machines BBUUTT not to queries from the ZeroHub.  ZeroHub's ARP requests go unanswered.
Quote
Is there an implementation flaw with the ZeroHub's ARP protocol?
That's interesting! ARP is a pretty basic protocol so you would expect it to be difficult to get it wrong! Can I ask where you are sniffing the network traffic , on the wireless side I assume ? Is it possible to post dumps of the arp packets ( to the cams ) that work and those that don't ? I was going to ask if it's only arp packets from other wireless devices that get answered but maybe that's a daft question if you're only sniffing on the wireless ....