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Router re-syncing at same time of day

clanla
Grafter
Posts: 113
Thanks: 3
Registered: 04-10-2012

Router re-syncing at same time of day

I have been having problems mostly caused by interference from equipment in my home (http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,108198.0.html) but am starting a new thread here as this seems to be a new problem.
In the last 12 days the router has re-synced for unknown reasons 6 times, on the following dates/times
17/10/12 05:38
22/10/12 05:30
25/10/12 05:26 and again a couple of minutes later
27/10/12 05:22
29/10/12 05:30
The last one is GMT, the others are BST.  All other re-syncs in that period have been for known reasons.  It seems unlikely to me that these are random events.  There is nothing at my house that happens at that time as far as I know.  It is not the central heating as that does not come on at that time.
This has only started happening since I changed to a different router (a Netgear DG834G v4 from a Linksys WAG354G) but I have difficulty seeing how the problem could be caused directly by the router.
A typical excerpt from the routerstats log shows
Sat 27 Oct 2012  05:22:02, Rx-Noise=6.1, Tx-Noise=16.0, Rx-Sync=1856, Tx-Sync=448,
Sat 27 Oct 2012  05:22:10, Rx-Noise=0.0, Tx-Noise=0.0, Rx-Sync=0, Tx-Sync=0,
Sat 27 Oct 2012  05:22:18, Rx-Noise=0.0, Tx-Noise=0.0, Rx-Sync=0, Tx-Sync=0,
Sat 27 Oct 2012  05:22:26, Rx-Noise=0.0, Tx-Noise=0.0, Rx-Sync=0, Tx-Sync=0,
Sat 27 Oct 2012  05:22:34, Rx-Noise=9.2, Tx-Noise=15.0, Rx-Sync=1472, Tx-Sync=448,
The SNRM chart for that is attached.
Any suggestions on where to go with this gratefully received.
23 REPLIES
Plusnet Alumni (retired) chrispurvey
Plusnet Alumni (retired)
Posts: 5,369
Fixes: 1
Registered: 13-07-2012

Re: Router re-syncing at same time of day

Hi clanla,
For info I've posted a log of your connection, they don't all quite match up to the stats you have posted.
<img src="http://ccgi.psmith12.plus.com/visradius/generated/image13515194748301.png" />
Is there anything happening at the times of disconnections on the log I have posted?


Community Veteran
Posts: 19,099
Thanks: 434
Fixes: 21
Registered: 31-08-2007

Re: Router re-syncing at same time of day

Hi Colin, first apologies, I forgot the promised email!
It's extremely odd that none of the drops you mention are showing up on the connection log. I assume that the others where there are gaps will be you, but are the others consistent with anything you have a note of?
If there is no consistency whatso ever between your logs and the chart, I'd suggest you PM Chris Purvey your username so he can double check in case something didn't match up. If that comes up with the same, then I suggest you Disconnect and power off for an hour. This should clear any active sessions off the system -  I have heard of strange incidents where there seem to be more than one session being logged by the BT systems, but do this in daylight hours.
It looks as though DLM hasn't liked the drops and raised your Target SNRM, but 1 drop per day by itself shouldn't really cause that, so I'm wondering if there is a high error level as well.
Potential causes - somebody else's boiler or electrical equipment on the same phase (milking parlour a possibility), do your street lights go off for the early hours and come on again around 0530?
Edit: What hours does Economy 7 operate in your area? It could be switching back to Daytime and a large load (storage heating) switching off? (although I would expect the BST and GMT times to be one hour apart if that was the case, it depends on what timers do the switching).
clanla
Grafter
Posts: 113
Thanks: 3
Registered: 04-10-2012

Re: Router re-syncing at same time of day

Chris's log is definitely mine, all the breaks shown there did happen and were down to me experimenting.  However as Chris points out none of the 0530 ones are there.  Also there are a couple of others missing, that again have a known cause.  The common factor is that all the missing ones were very brief, a disconnection followed by an immediate reconnection.  Does the PN log miss very short disconnections?  There is no doubt that they really happened as it comes up with a different speed and SNRM, as can be seen from the routerstats text log I posted.
The target SNMR seemed to go up several times as it resynced at 0530, I am now using the router telnet settings to adjust the target down in order to stay at an actual SNRM of around 7.
Street lights?  What are they?  We hardly have a street never mind lights.
No miliking parlours either, it is all sheep and beef here, not dairy.  Certainly there could be other farm machinery, the nearest farm is about a quarter of a mile away.
The suggestion of Economy 7 is an interesting idea (I don't have it but my neighbours may).  I will make enquiries.
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,099
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Registered: 31-08-2007

Re: Router re-syncing at same time of day

Yes, it has been said that the Radius log can miss short disconnects, but whether that's actually the case or whether as has also been suggested the PPP session survives the drop, but it may also be a possibility that you reconnect to the same Gateway and so it doesn't show.
Perhaps keep a log of what Gateway you are on both before you either do a Disconnect or have a drop, and again after it's reconnected. See if that throws any light on the situation.
I thought you had a street light on the pole up the road, I don't know if it is a DP at all, as well as all the leccy stuff? Might be me recollecting wrong!.
clanla
Grafter
Posts: 113
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Registered: 04-10-2012

Re: Router re-syncing at same time of day

I will keep a record of the gateway IP address.
No street light.  DP?  I looked it up on Wikipedia but did not find anything that looked appropriate.
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,099
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Registered: 31-08-2007

Re: Router re-syncing at same time of day

Distribution Point for telephone lines, if it is, it will say on the pole DPxy, where xy will be 2 digits usually. Google comes up with the correct info if you look for "BT DP" but you weren't to know that.
I expect you may have this link Which Gateway am I on No need to note where it is located. The IP address will be handy as well in the context of the session logging.
clanla
Grafter
Posts: 113
Thanks: 3
Registered: 04-10-2012

Re: Router re-syncing at same time of day

It re-synced again this morning at 05:28.  I think it can definitely be said that the timing is not random.  The DLM (is that the correct acronym?) has pushed my target SNRM up to 15dB now.  Foolishly I forgot to check whether the gateway had changed before I forced a disconnect in order to telnet in to the router and push the margin down to a sensible level.  I was panicking to do it before anything noticed the lower speed and started pushing the profile speed down.
No clues so far on what might be causing the re-sync but I have more enquiries to make locally.
Can I safely rule out anything in the router doing this?
What about in the exchange?  Are there any circumstances where the DLM forces a re-sync?
Plusnet Help Team
Plusnet Help Team
Posts: 12,814
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Registered: 27-04-2007

Re: Router re-syncing at same time of day

Without wishing to seem dismissive I'd not personally be to concerned at this level of disconnection as it shouldn't be having any negative impact on your services speeds or stability.
The only way to rule out the router would be to try another, I'd personally doubt that a router issue would exhibit the conditions you've noticed though.
If this post resolved your issue please click the 'This fixed my problem' button
 Adam Walker
 Plusnet Help Team
clanla
Grafter
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Registered: 04-10-2012

Re: Router re-syncing at same time of day

Hi Adam.  I would not be concerned either if was not for the fact that my target SNRM has been pushed up from 6 to 15 since Chrs Pettitt reset it for me on 24th.  Looking at the log Chris Purvey posted earlier it is difficult to see what else is pushing it up.  That is partly why I wondered whether the DLM is deciding to push it up and forcing a re-sync on me, rather than the re-syncs causing the target to go up.
Plusnet Alumni (retired) chrispurvey
Plusnet Alumni (retired)
Posts: 5,369
Fixes: 1
Registered: 13-07-2012

Re: Router re-syncing at same time of day

The disconnections that are happening appear to be from the router side and not from the exchange side, so more than likely this is what will be causing the target SNRM to go up.
clanla
Grafter
Posts: 113
Thanks: 3
Registered: 04-10-2012

Re: Router re-syncing at same time of day

Chris, how can one tell whether the disconnections are from the router side or from the exchange side?
Adam suggested that the level of disconnections seen should not be enough to cause the target margin to go up.
Plusnet Alumni (retired) chrispurvey
Plusnet Alumni (retired)
Posts: 5,369
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Registered: 13-07-2012

Re: Router re-syncing at same time of day

Just trying to point out that the disconnections appear to be coming from your router, Adam's actually right the amount of disconnections you've had should not really cause an issue with the DLM.

Below is a list of your disconnections for the last month, as you can see the majority are 'unknown (User request)' this is a disconnection via the router of some sort whether it be reboot, soft disconnect, idle time out PPP drop from the router and a few others.
08:16 31/Oct/2012 unknown (User request)
11:22 26/Oct/2012 unknown (User request)
07:30 25/Oct/2012 unknown (Administrative reset)
07:51 22/Oct/2012 unknown (Termination by server side (NAS) Modem)
10:17 20/Oct/2012 unknown (Termination by server side (NAS) Modem)
09:46 20/Oct/2012 unknown (User request)
16:34 19/Oct/2012 unknown (Termination by server side (NAS) Modem)
11:17 19/Oct/2012 unknown (User request)
11:10 16/Oct/2012 unknown (User request)
14:50 15/Oct/2012 unknown (User request)
14:47 15/Oct/2012 unknown (User request)
09:45 12/Oct/2012 unknown (User request)
01:45 09/Oct/2012 unknown (Administrative reset)
20:03 08/Oct/2012 unknown (User request)
16:13 08/Oct/2012 unknown (User request)
08:25 08/Oct/2012 unknown (User request)
21:52 07/Oct/2012 unknown (User request)
17:10 07/Oct/2012 unknown (User request)
08:23 07/Oct/2012 unknown (User request)
16:09 05/Oct/2012 unknown (User request)
15:52 05/Oct/2012 unknown (User request)
15:48 05/Oct/2012 unknown (User request)
11:34 05/Oct/2012 unknown (User request)
23:52 04/Oct/2012 unknown (User request)
22:06 04/Oct/2012 unknown (User request)
05:27 03/Oct/2012 unknown (User request)
13:15 02/Oct/2012 unknown (User request)
01:12 02/Oct/2012 unknown (User request)
15:49 01/Oct/2012 unknown (User request)
09:13 01/Oct/2012 unknown (User request)
06:36 01/Oct/2012 unknown (User request)
09:31 30/Sep/2012 unknown (User request)
09:31 30/Sep/2012 unknown (User request)
clanla
Grafter
Posts: 113
Thanks: 3
Registered: 04-10-2012

Re: Router re-syncing at same time of day

Prior to 24th Oct there were various problems that were causing interference and disconnections.  By 24th these were sorted.  On that date Chris Pettitt reset the target to 6dB for me.  Since then your list of disconnections has only
08:16 31/Oct/2012  unknown (User request) 
11:22 26/Oct/2012  unknown (User request) 
07:30 25/Oct/2012  unknown (Administrative reset) 
So the disconnections that this thread is about, namely
25/10/12 05:26 and again a couple of minutes later
27/10/12 05:22
29/10/12 05:30
31/10/12 05:28
are not even in your log.  It appears to be at these times that my target has been pushed up.  So the questions are what is causing those and why has my target got pushed up?
Plusnet Alumni (retired) chrispurvey
Plusnet Alumni (retired)
Posts: 5,369
Fixes: 1
Registered: 13-07-2012

Re: Router re-syncing at same time of day

hmmm.... do you have another router that you can try and get the logs from that one? Its quite strange that it does not pick one of them up, in some instances it can be when the connections drops for just a few seconds and is then restored again it is not always picked up, but this is pretty rare.