Router on 24/7 why?

[#1]

@strider The poor speed that you mentioned - 0.225Mbps, strikes me as meaning something may not be right, so this is worth looking at in more detail. Are you nearby your parents? Posting things like stats will no doubt help give some idea about what's happened. What modem/router is it that they use?

[#2]

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@Anotherone wrote:

@strider The poor speed that you mentioned - 0.225Mbps, strikes me as meaning something may not be right, so this is worth looking at in more detail.

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@Anotherone, a good point.  I'll see if I can get the details at the weekend.  S

[#3]

OK I have the details of my parents router

DSL Modulation Mode:	ADSL2+
DSL Path Mode:	Interleaved
Downstream Rate:	283 kbps
Upstream Rate:	444 kbps
Downstream Margin:	31 db
Upstream Margin:	26 db
Downstream Line Attenuation:	29 db
Upstream Line Attenuation:	10 db
Downstream Transmit Power:	12 db
Upstream Transmit Power:	20 db

Anyone like to comment on what speed my parents should be getting based on those values.  S

Edit: The router is a Lynksys WAG200G

[#4]

Awful. I suspect the connection is chronically banded for some reason and will need to be unbanded and the Upstream uncapped as well, possibly an SNR reset, but how did it get like that. Is there a fault on the line?
First question has to be can you/they hear/have you heard any crackling or other noises on the line when using the phone? Have they had any problems with incoming or outgoing calls? Try the Quiet Line Test 17070 option 2 if need be.

If the line is perfectly clear, and/or there was a previous fault that's been fixed, an SNR Reset should do the trick. If that wasn't the case did they repeatedly reboot because something didn't seem right? This would have made the automatic Dynamic Line Management at the exchange think there was a fault and eventually band the line.

if there are no faults they should get around 15Mbps.

[#5]

The telephone line does not seem noisy.

Could the poor performance just be because they only turn the router on when they want to use it (something like one hour a day)?  S

[#6]

That in itself should not have caused this banding. Depending on the time of day, it may affect the optimum speed that they can get at the time depending on background electrical/electronic/radio noise. During the day is normally quieter and speeds should be slightly better.

It will be repeated rebooting/disconnects in a short time-frame that cause the banding. A phone line fault will obviously cause that.

[#7]

can you tell me how BT (and by that you mean openreach) is supposed to tell the difference between someone turning their router on and off (ie just killing the power) and a line problem?

There's a well established process called "Dying Gasp" which is a message sent by the router to tell the DSLAM that it's being powered off, specifically to distinguish from a fault.  That's how BT (Openreach) is SUPPOSED to tell the difference, however general opinion seems to be that BT has chosen not to support that feature.

[#8 · Accepted solution]

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@strider wrote:

The telephone line does not seem noisy.

Could the poor performance just be because they only turn the router on when they want to use it (something like one hour a day)?  S

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Like Anotherone has said, it shouldn't cause that type of banding, but it wouldn't surprise me if it has caused it over time.

I've put an SNR reset through on the line as it does seem pretty stable when it's actually connected. Hopefully they should see an improvement in speed, however I would advise that they either leave the router switched on, or log in to the router and disconnect before switching it off if they do insist on switching it off.

Hopefully that will help

Just a side note....

OK I have the details of my parents router

DSL Modulation Mode:

ADSL2+

From what I can see (Assuming I've found the right account, it matches the connection drops you've mentioned) the connection is 20CN ADSL, not ADSL2+

[#9]

I thought 20CN ADSL doesn't have banding, everything indicates it's 21CN ADSL2+.

[#10]

Oops, perhaps it's strider who's had the reset, maybe he's on 20CN. The stats from his parents modem/router do indicate 21CN. @strider perhaps PM @HarryB the account details

[#11]

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@Anotherone wrote:

Oops, perhaps it's strider who's had the reset, maybe he's on 20CN. The stats from his parents modem/router do indicate 21CN. @strider perhaps PM @HarryB the account details

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Done ^^

[#12]

Thanks for the PM.

I'll look in to the account tomorrow 

Just to clarify, the account I was talking about early today was one I found by taking the IP from your post (assuming this was your account) and looking through people you had referred. The account holder, on the one I put the reset through on earlier, had the same surname as you (assuming I was on your account) and the connections on our radius log showed it was only connected for a few hours today, looking like the router was being switched off at night.

Maybe your parents aren't the only one's switching their router off at night 

[#13]

Removed banding on the correct account now

My advice on the previous post still stands though:

I would advise that they either leave the router switched on, or log in to the router and disconnect before switching it off if they do insist on switching it off.

Hopefully that will help

[#14]

Is everyone completely sure that a ppp disconnect prior to shutting down makes any difference?  I'm sure it can't hurt, however reading elsewhere it seems to be thought that DLM looks only at the reconnection event, and classes it as "Unforced" if there was activity during the preceding 15 minutes, and "Forced" if there wasn't, with only "Unforced" counting for MTBR calculation.

[#15]

I doubt the PPP disconnect makes much difference to the DLM. It may make things look nicer on Plusnet's visual radius chart, which is the first and possibly the only thing Plusnet will look at. There is an "orderly shutdown procedure" in the DSL technical recommendation documents, but few people seem interested in finding if there's a command to shut down the DSL link properly.

I don't think anyone is going to test it by disconnecting their PPP and rebooting their modem 50 times as quickly as they can, and then reporting what line speed they end up with.