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Router, Line or the will of BT?

GrahamC
Grafter
Posts: 257
Registered: 19-07-2009

Router, Line or the will of BT?

Hi all, finally I've had enough and it's time to ask all the guru's here at PN.
Had a stable connection for the last few days, but this am the router log was full of disconnects/reconnects again. The connection was losing synch, but for no more than 10-20 seconds. Here's a shortened version of the log:
Apr 24 02:58:57 | DSL Carrier is down
Apr 24 02:59:07 | DSL Carrier is up
Apr 24 03:07:27 | DSL Carrier is down
Apr 24 03:07:47 | DSL Carrier is up
Apr 24 03:08:17 | DSL Carrier is down
Apr 24 03:08:37 | DSL Carrier is up
Apr 24 03:08:57 | DSL Carrier is down
Apr 24 03:09:17 | DSL Carrier is up
Apr 24 03:12:17 | DSL Carrier is down
Apr 24 03:12:27 | DSL Carrier is up
Apr 24 04:27:07 | DSL Carrier is down
Apr 24 04:27:27 | DSL Carrier is up
Apr 24 04:43:27 | DSL Carrier is down
Apr 24 04:43:37 | DSL Carrier is up
Apr 24 04:44:17 | DSL Carrier is down
Apr 24 04:44:27 | DSL Carrier is up
Apr 24 04:44:47 | DSL Carrier is down
Apr 24 04:45:07 | DSL Carrier is up
Apr 24 19:14:47 | DSL Carrier is down
Apr 24 19:14:57 | DSL Carrier is up
After each DSL up, the connection was remade with no change to synch rates, 6752 down, 448 up.
Started routerstats and have monitored for the rest of the day.....

                                                    RX SNR  RX RATE TX RATE TX SNR
Tue 24 Apr 2012  08:03:43 15 6752 448 24
Tue 24 Apr 2012  14:21:57 15 6752 448 24
Tue 24 Apr 2012  14:22:28 8 6752 0 0
Tue 24 Apr 2012  14:22:57 8 6752 448 24
Tue 24 Apr 2012  14:23:27 15 6752 448 24
Tue 24 Apr 2012  19:14:33 15 6752 448 24
Tue 24 Apr 2012  19:15:03 15 6752 448 24
Tue 24 Apr 2012  19:15:33 15 6752 448 25
Tue 24 Apr 2012  19:16:03 15 6752 448 25
Tue 24 Apr 2012  19:47:04 15 6752 448 25
Tue 24 Apr 2012  19:47:34 15 6752 448 25
Tue 24 Apr 2012  19:48:05 18 6752 0 0
Tue 24 Apr 2012  19:48:34 18 6752 0 0
Tue 24 Apr 2012  19:49:04 15 6752 448 25
Tue 24 Apr 2012  19:49:34 15 6752 448 25

The only change I can match to a disconnection is at 19:15, when the Tx SNR increased by 1db.
Current router stats are:
RX
Connection Rate:  6752  Kbps
Line Attenuation: 15    dB
Noise Margin:    15    dB
Interleave CRC:  0
Interleave FEC:  0
Interleave HEC:  0
Fast path CRC:    0
Fast path FEC:    0
Fast path HEC:    0
TX
Connection Rate:  448    Kbps
Line Attenuation: 8      dB
Noise Margin:    25    dB
Interleave CRC:  0
Interleave FEC:  0
Interleave HEC:  0
Fast path CRC:    0
Fast path FEC:    0
Fast path HEC:    0
Uptime (from SF Count):
  0 days, 02:13:44
Upstream (Tx):
  Good Cells: 339
  Idle Cells: 8478138
Downstream (Rx):
  Good Cells: 552
  Idle Cells: 127782058
  Bad HEC Cells: 8
  Overflow Dropped: 0
The router is a DSL-G604T, with Routertech firmware 2.97. BT suggests a profile of 5.5 and PN have this matched in the connection settings. Throughput seems to be in line with these profiles, the most recent 5.18 mb/s down, 0.38 mp/s up.
I live approx 1km from the exchange, have been on MaxDSL since the exchange was enabled in 2006 and have previously always synched at 8128 with no significant line issues. I don't have a master socket, nor an extension (only one socket in the house). The connection is via a new filter and the only other item plugged in is a standard telephone. There appears to be no line noise using the telephone. I've checked the telephone today and have no missed calls, so the disconnections were not due to incoming calls.
So, the questions are, what do I do from here?. Is this representative of a short-line MaxDSL connection nowadays? Do I need a new router? Should I get the line checked? Are the resynchs caused by the DSLAM trying to give me a better connection, but the router fails? Can PN shed any light?
Sorry for the long post, but I've tried to be as complete as possible....
cheers
Graham
I can supply the full log if required  Undecided
84 REPLIES
GrahamC
Grafter
Posts: 257
Registered: 19-07-2009

Re: Router, Line or the will of BT?

Had another disconnect/reconnect...
Apr 24 21:52:57 | DSL Carrier is down
Apr 24 21:53:07 | DSL Carrier is up
Ds Rate (Kbps)  6752
Us Rate (Kbps)  448
DS Margin  15
US Margin  24
DS Line Attenuation  15
US Line Attenuation  8
and the Tx SNR has returned to it's normal 24db...
These last two ocurrances seem to tie in with the start and end of the Chelsea match. As I didn't watch it, why would it affect my connection?
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,100
Thanks: 437
Fixes: 21
Registered: 31-08-2007

Re: Router, Line or the will of BT?

The reason the sync speed always resyncs the same speed is because you are that close to the exchange, it's all maxed out, the Target SNRM will fix the speed (as always). Because of all the drops this has gone to 15dB instead of 6dB when you'd sync at 8128.
To get some idea as to what may be going on, unplug all phones, filters etc except the filter for the modem/router and the modem/router.
Remove the faceplate from the master socket and plug this into the Test socket.
See if the drops continue.
Oh, before all that lot, can you hear any crackling noises on the phone line when you use the phone?
GrahamC
Grafter
Posts: 257
Registered: 19-07-2009

Re: Router, Line or the will of BT?

I don't have a master socket, just a bog std BT faceplate. I'll unplug the phone overnight and keep the routerstats log going.
It's funny you should mention the SNRM, as I can't remember it being anything other than 15db, even synching at 8128. Has BT changed its connection criteria? I was always led to believe attenuation LOW, margin HIGH was the way to go for the best connection.
cheers
Graham
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,100
Thanks: 437
Fixes: 21
Registered: 31-08-2007

Re: Router, Line or the will of BT?

I wouldn't leave your phone unplugged overnight for your own safety. With the rate at which you get disconnects,you can check that out anytime.
Plusnet Alumni (retired) orbrey
Plusnet Alumni (retired)
Posts: 10,540
Registered: 18-07-2007

Re: Router, Line or the will of BT?

Hi GrahamC,
I'd recommend raising a fault in the mean time - http://faults.plus.net
That'll take you through a few more tests to prove it's not your equipment or internal wiring and then pass a ticket through to our faults team who'll get things investigated for you.
GrahamC
Grafter
Posts: 257
Registered: 19-07-2009

Re: Router, Line or the will of BT?

Found a locked-up router this am, so I cannot post the router log resuls from last night but I do have the routerstats log....

                              Rx SNR  Rx Sync Tx Sync Tx SNR
Wed 25 Apr 2012  00:44:03 15 6752 448 24
Wed 25 Apr 2012  00:44:13 15 6752 0 24
Wed 25 Apr 2012  00:44:23 7 6752 448 25
Wed 25 Apr 2012  00:44:33 15 6688 448 25
Up for 1.5 mins
Wed 25 Apr 2012  00:46:03 15 6688 448 25
Wed 25 Apr 2012  00:46:13 15 6688 0 25
Wed 25 Apr 2012  00:46:23 5 6688 0 25
Wed 25 Apr 2012  00:46:33 5 6688 448 25
Wed 25 Apr 2012  00:46:43 15 6720 448 25
Up for 11 mins
Wed 25 Apr 2012  00:57:44 15 6720 448 25
Wed 25 Apr 2012  00:57:54 15 6720 0 25
Wed 25 Apr 2012  00:58:04 15 6720 0 25
Wed 25 Apr 2012  00:58:14 5 6720 448 22
Wed 25 Apr 2012  00:58:24 15 6656 0 22
Wed 25 Apr 2012  00:58:34 5 6656 0 22
Wed 25 Apr 2012  00:58:44 5 6656 448 25
Wed 25 Apr 2012  00:58:54 15 6688 448 25
Wed 25 Apr 2012  00:59:04 15 6688 0 25
Wed 25 Apr 2012  00:59:14 5 6688 0 25
Wed 25 Apr 2012  00:59:24 5 6688 448 25
Up for 52 mins
Wed 25 Apr 2012  01:51:27 15 6688 448 25
Wed 25 Apr 2012  01:51:37 15 6688 0 25
Wed 25 Apr 2012  01:51:47 5 6688 0 25
Wed 25 Apr 2012  01:51:57 5 6688 448 24
Up for 17 mins
Wed 25 Apr 2012  02:09:37 15 6688 448 24
Wed 25 Apr 2012  02:09:48 0 6688 0 0
Wed 25 Apr 2012  02:09:58 0 6688 448 24
Wed 25 Apr 2012  02:10:07 15 6688 448 24
Up for 69 mins
Wed 25 Apr 2012  03:19:21 15 6688 448 24
Wed 25 Apr 2012  03:19:31 15 6688 0 24
Wed 25 Apr 2012  03:19:41 7 6688 448 25
Wed 25 Apr 2012  03:19:51 15 6720 448 25
Up for 16 mins
Wed 25 Apr 2012  03:36:32 15 6720 448 25
Wed 25 Apr 2012  03:36:43 2 6720 0 0
Wed 25 Apr 2012  03:36:52 2 6720 448 25
Wed 25 Apr 2012  03:37:02 15 6720 448 25
Up for 2 mins
Wed 25 Apr 2012  03:39:12 15 6720 448 25
Wed 25 Apr 2012  03:39:22 15 6720 0 25
Wed 25 Apr 2012  03:39:32 7 6720 448 24
Wed 25 Apr 2012  03:39:42 15 6688 448 24
The all hell broke loose the router had enough and locked
Wed 25 Apr 2012  03:50:33 15 6688 448 24
Wed 25 Apr 2012  03:50:43 15 6688 0 24
Wed 25 Apr 2012  03:50:53 7 6688 448 24
Wed 25 Apr 2012  03:51:03 15 6752 448 24
Wed 25 Apr 2012  03:51:13 15 6752 0 24
Wed 25 Apr 2012  03:51:23 7 6752 448 25
Wed 25 Apr 2012  03:51:33 15 6656 448 25
Wed 25 Apr 2012  03:51:43 15 6656 0 25
Wed 25 Apr 2012  03:51:53 8 6656 0 25
Wed 25 Apr 2012  03:52:03 8 6656 448 24
Wed 25 Apr 2012  03:52:13 15 6688 448 24
Wed 25 Apr 2012  03:52:23 15 6688 0 24
Wed 25 Apr 2012  03:52:33 7 6688 0 24
Wed 25 Apr 2012  03:52:43 7 6688 448 25
Wed 25 Apr 2012  03:52:53 15 6752 0 25
Wed 25 Apr 2012  03:53:03 4 6752 0 25
Wed 25 Apr 2012  03:53:13 4 6752 448 24
Wed 25 Apr 2012  03:53:23 15 6656 0 24
Wed 25 Apr 2012  03:53:33 5 6656 0 24
Wed 25 Apr 2012  03:53:43 5 6656 448 25
Wed 25 Apr 2012  03:53:53 15 6368 448 25
Wed 25 Apr 2012  03:54:03 15 6368 0 25
Wed 25 Apr 2012  03:54:13 5 6368 0 25
Wed 25 Apr 2012  03:54:23 5 6368 448 25
Wed 25 Apr 2012  03:54:33 15 6720 448 25
Wed 25 Apr 2012  03:54:43 15 6720 0 25
Wed 25 Apr 2012  03:54:53 7 6720 0 25
Wed 25 Apr 2012  03:55:03 5 6720 448 17
Wed 25 Apr 2012  03:55:13 15 6528 0 17
Wed 25 Apr 2012  03:55:23 6 6528 0 17
Wed 25 Apr 2012  03:55:33 6 6528 448 24
Wed 25 Apr 2012  03:55:43 15 6624 448 24
Wed 25 Apr 2012  03:55:53 15 6624 0 24
Wed 25 Apr 2012  03:56:03 5 6624 0 24
This was after the reset and reboot, not had another disconnect since....
Wed 25 Apr 2012  12:21:43 15 6784 448 24

I've had to do a factory reset on the router to have any chance of a reconnection, with the following stats:
Connection Status  Connected
Ds Rate (Kbps)  6784
Us Rate (Kbps)  448
DS Margin  15
US Margin  24
DS Line Attenuation  15
US Line Attenuation  8
Trained Modulation  ADSL_G.dmt 
LOS Errors  0
Peak Cell Rate  1056 cells per sec
CRC Rx Fast  0
CRC Tx Fast  0
CRC Rx Interleaved  0
CRC Tx Interleaved  0
Path Mode  Interleaved
A little background on the router...
The DLink DSL-G604T is a rather old piece of kit, this particular model was first on the market in 2004. I've always updated with the latest firmware, but the thing got so unreliable and finally bricked itself late last year. This left me with the only alternative of using the PN supplied Voyager 205, an even older model I understand. Anyhow, I finally managed to de-brick the router earlier this year and decided to try a 3rd party firmware supplied by the guys over at Routertech who specialise in de-bricking and reviving old kit. However, reading the docs further, I have come to the conclusion that the firmware does restrict synch rates to allow a more stable connection, probably as a work around to overcome issues with old kit like this.
To finally elimianate this router I've decided to update with a more modern model (Zoom X7) with the latest Broadcom chipsets. I should have this on test tomorrow and follow up with the results.
@Anotherone
Thanks for taking the time to comment on my issues, I may come back to you but hopefully not.
@Matt
Thanks for the info. At the mo I'm not entirely sure what's going on. As I've mentioned above I'll be getting a new router to test and hopefully this will point me in the right direction.
cheers
Graham
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,100
Thanks: 437
Fixes: 21
Registered: 31-08-2007

Re: Router, Line or the will of BT?

Thanks Graham, do come back and tell us, it's all interesting stuff.
Re the graphs (yuk) and the logs, I notice slight changes in sync speeds there after the drops. The other thing I see in the logs is the big changes in SNRM. The thing that occurred to me after my first post was that you could have a lot of background interference that's appeared. Try switching of any electrical stuff and see if the margin changes, especially if it's a cordless phone, unplug & switch off, mains as well.
If you don't notice anything immediately, it might still be worth considering a resync with everything off and unplugged.
Try another filter as well, you may get a clue as to whether it's faulty by looking at the downstream SNRM before you unplug the phone from it and the look again after, but try a swap anyway at some point.
PS. If it's a cordless phone causing problems, see if double filtering it cures the problem.
GrahamC
Grafter
Posts: 257
Registered: 19-07-2009

Re: Router, Line or the will of BT?

The tests last night were with the telephone (standard cord phone) disconnected, i.e. totally unplugged. Apart from the TV/Sky box/DVD recorder (all in standby) nothing else is switched on overnight, well the PC was on last night of course  Smiley but is usually switched off. The router is on 24/7.
The only electrical item in the house on a timer is the heating, but is off overnight.
BTW the Sky box has never been connected to the phone socket.
Once I have the new router I'll redo all the tests and checks, hopefully this will give me a clearer understanding of whats going on.
cheers
Graham
Plusnet Help Team
Plusnet Help Team
Posts: 13,247
Thanks: 195
Fixes: 61
Registered: 27-04-2007

Re: Router, Line or the will of BT?

@GrahamC,
Just to give you the option we can supply you with  Technicolor tg582n router either for £40 or free on a 12 month deferred contract, postage and packing would be £4.99.
Adam
If this post resolved your issue please click the 'This fixed my problem' button
 Adam Walker
 Plusnet Help Team
GrahamC
Grafter
Posts: 257
Registered: 19-07-2009

Re: Router, Line or the will of BT?

Hi Adam,
thanks for the offer, but the new router arrived this am and is currently on test...if this pans out it should prove to be a another eBuyer bargain  Wink
cheers
Graham
GrahamC
Grafter
Posts: 257
Registered: 19-07-2009

Re: Router, Line or the will of BT?

The jury results are in and as expected a new router as provided all the answers.
Took about 10 mins to get the kit set-up and off we went. The initial connection speed was well up on what I was seeing previously (over the last several months the connection was never greate than 6800), although throughput is obviously down because of the BT/PN profiles.
Since startup I've had routerstats monitoring the SNRM, and setup a syslog to capture the router logs just in case  Roll eyes
Yesterday I used the connection for all the normal stuff, mail, browsing, streaming etc, and overnight I had p2p running from 0000 to 0800. Yesterday and overnight the weather has been very wet with local flooding and the odd roll of thunder, so not the best of test conditions
The log shows:

04/26/12 12:28:17,Zoom.Home,user-level,Notice,kernel,,"klogd started: BusyBox v1.00 (2011.10.28-01:26+0000)"
04/26/12 12:28:17,Zoom.Home,syslogd,Emergency,,,"BCM96345  started: BusyBox v1.00 (2011.10.28-01:26+0000)"

So no line drops, retrains  Cool
The SNRM wanders between 14.9 and 15.3
And the latest stats:

Mode:                                      ADSL_G.dmt
Traffic Type:                              ATM
Status:                                    Up
Link Power State:                          L0
 
                                          Downstream Upstream
Line Coding(Trellis):                      On        On
SNR Margin (0.1 dB):                      152        220
Attenuation (0.1 dB):                      125        105
Output Power (0.1 dBm):                    199        121
Attainable Rate (Kbps):                    7808      1068
Rate (Kbps):                              7264      448
K (number of bytes in DMT frame):          228        15
R (number of check bytes in RS code word): 16        4
S (RS code word size in DMT frame):        1.00      4.00
D (interleaver depth):                    32        8
Delay (msec):                              8.00      8.00
INP (DMT symbol):                          1.05      0.21
Super Frames:                              3698296    3698296
Super Frame Errors:                        0          0
RS Words:                                  251484094  62871253
RS Correctable Errors:                    0          0
RS Uncorrectable Errors:                  0          0
HEC Errors:                                0          0
OCD Errors:                                0          0
LCD Errors:                                0          0
Total Cells:                              1077111399 0
Data Cells:                                169686177  0
Bit Errors:                                0          0
Total ES:                                  0          0
Total SES:                                0          0
Total UAS:                                11        11

So far so good. I'm very pleased with the purchase. The additional reporting, diagnostics and options this router supplies will definately keep me busy for a while yet.
The most significant change I can see from all the status information is the increase in power output (Downstream was 5dbm and is now 19.9dbm) which leads me to believe that the power supply is kaput (common failure on most consumer equipment) and was unable to hold any sort of connection for long.
The next question is: How do I get back to the full MaxDSL connection at 8128?
Currently my line has interleaving (obviously switched on to alleviate the problems with the old router), the profiles at BT and PN still show 5.5Mb Is this something I have to wait for the exchange equipment to sort out or can PN give it a bump?
cheers
Graham
Highlighted
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,100
Thanks: 437
Fixes: 21
Registered: 31-08-2007

Re: Router, Line or the will of BT?

Thanks for the feedback, that certainly looks a lot better, but in terms getting your full maxDSL 8128 back, I'd first raise a ticket stating that you've got a new router which has resolved the issues you had, and you'd like Interleaving turned off (not auto).
See how that goes, then if need be ask for an SNRM reset. Was that Routerstats plot really overnight? (looking at the times on the axis), if so - nice. And what was the uptime for those last stats?
GrahamC
Grafter
Posts: 257
Registered: 19-07-2009

Re: Router, Line or the will of BT?

The graph from routerstats covers 0200 to 0500, roughly the same time period as the previous graph showing all the drops. The stats were from around 1300 on Thursday to 1000 on Friday, so since installation really. I've been monitoring since and apart from a rebbot after changing some settings it's been very stable. In fact the router has not recorded one single error.
I'll put the ticket in re: interleaving now and see what time brings.
cheers
Graham
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,100
Thanks: 437
Fixes: 21
Registered: 31-08-2007

Re: Router, Line or the will of BT?

No errors  Smiley That's why I asked about the uptime, great stuff. Best of luck, let us know how it goes.