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Re-directed to BT Wholesale

wilfy
Dabbler
Posts: 10
Registered: 17-11-2011

Re-directed to BT Wholesale

Hi,
I had fibre installed yesterday and was ok last night then this morning all i ever get is directed to a BT Wholesale Service Information site on wired pc, iphone and ipad.
Do i just reset the Netgear router? or the BT modem as well?
I was under the impression not to turn it off for 10 days as ist affects the profile?
Many thanks
wilfy

16 REPLIES
rongtw
Seasoned Hero
Posts: 6,543
Thanks: 1,271
Fixes: 12
Registered: 01-12-2010

Re: Re-directed to BT Wholesale

ye dont worry its something to do with the router , i had the same earlier its the DNS settings give them a ring they will tell you what to do  Wink
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prichardson
Grafter
Posts: 1,503
Registered: 05-04-2007

Re: Re-directed to BT Wholesale

We have identified a quirk with the Netgear WNR1000 that causes this problem. Other routers are also susceptible to this problem, but we don't supply others that have this.
First, this problem will only occur following an outage in our or our suppliers network, including planned maintenance. Worse, the very nature of this quirk means it can manifest itself anything from one second following the outage, upto the next time you reboot the Netgear.
A quick fix is to power cycle the Netgear.
The alternative is to update the Netgear settings to force it to use our DNS. Access the Netgears settings page using http://192.168.1.254/
Under the Basic Settings link on the left, select to specify specific DNS, then set the boxes to the following.
212.159.6.9
212.159.6.10
Apply this at the bottom of the page.
We have reported the problem to Netgear to see what we can do in the longer term.
wilfy
Dabbler
Posts: 10
Registered: 17-11-2011

Re: Re-directed to BT Wholesale

Many thanks for the quick replies.....
I had to do a reboot then i have specified the DNS
Will i have to reboot regularly?
Cheers
wilfy
FoolishlyWise
Grafter
Posts: 256
Thanks: 3
Registered: 16-02-2010

Re: Re-directed to BT Wholesale

Everyone seems to be having this problem latley o_o
I can confirm that my router setup is a Netgear and its been having this problem too.
(Although its a WNDR4000 connected to a DG834 as per my sig).
Doing a tracert goes to this:
C:\Users\Aman>tracert google.co.uk
Tracing route to google.co.uk [62.6.38.125]
over a maximum of 30 hops:
  1    1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  WNDR4000 [192.168.1.1]
  2    13 ms    13 ms    12 ms  lo0-central1.ptw-ag02.plus.net [195.166.128.229]
  3    13 ms    13 ms    12 ms  gi1-10-211.ptw-gw01.plus.net [84.92.6.192]
  4    16 ms    14 ms    15 ms  195.99.126.146
  5    15 ms    23 ms    22 ms  core2-te-0-3-4-0.ilford.ukcore.bt.net [62.172.10
2.30]
  6    12 ms    12 ms    12 ms  mspaccess2-gig1-0-0.ilford.fixed.bt.net [194.74.
16.98]
  7    *        *        *    Request timed out.
  8    *        *        *    Request timed out.
  9    *        *    62.7.197.182  reports: Destination net unreachable.
Trace complete.

Its happening more and more to me now as well, a router reboot, ipconfig /flushdns and a laptop reboot helps fix it.

Why does the DNS settings case this to happen though?  Shocked
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,099
Thanks: 434
Fixes: 21
Registered: 31-08-2007

Re: Re-directed to BT Wholesale

Can you browse to Google.co.uk  alright? Try the Traceroute again in case it was a gremlin and then try a Gateway hop (login to the modem/router and disconnect the Internet (ppp) session and then reconnect - note this is not the same as a resync!).
Then try the Traceroute again.
prichardson
Grafter
Posts: 1,503
Registered: 05-04-2007

Re: Re-directed to BT Wholesale

Thanks Amanha,
We believe this is problem exists across all of Netgear Ethernet routers base, were you connect using PPPoE.
Our tests show that in DHCP mode on the wan, the router is not impacted. However that was the only other mode we can test.
What appears to happen is that after PPPoE negotiation has taken place, an IP, Gateway and one or more DNS is provided using IPCP. The Netgear passes the DNS servers to its internal DNS relay server for use.
This is why assigning DNS direct to your PC does not get impacted, and if you assign DNS in the router, it discards the IPCP data and uses your custom settings, thus not impacted.
In our testing, we saw the following. Using a fake PPPoE server on a XP machine, we assigned the router DNS servers like 1.1.1.1, 1.1.1.2.
In packet captures, we could see the router using these two DNS servers, as expected.
We reconfigured the PPPoE server to issue 2.2.2.1, 2.2.2.2, told the PPPoE to terminate the session (a bit like BT force disconnecting you) and the router instantly issued a new PPPoE connection, getting the new servers.
The Netgear could be seen in packet captures to request DNS from all known servers, so 1.1.1.1, 1.1.1.2, 2.2.2.1, 2.2.2.2.
We added 2 more in like 3.3.3.1, 3.3.3.2. Once again, we now saw it making requests to 6 servers.
As per my above post, this means in outages you see the BT Wholesale message, but once the outage is over, you continue as the Netgear doesn't stop using the old DNS.
As a side note, the reason why it could take days after an outage before you see the problem is the way the DNS relay works. It appears to use a single DNS server until a request fails/timesout.
This means it could be using Plusnet DNS for days, a single DNS query is lost or times out and it switches to another "it knows about". If that happens to be the BT one, you get the BT message.
BTs DNS is pretty reliable too, given its sole job is to return a single IP for every single lookup.
It seems that the router doesn't discard knowledge of the DNS when PPPoE torn down. But it does discard it in DHCP mode if it gets different ones.
We have reported the issue to Netgear and have captures to show what it should be using and what it goes on to use.
We are currently exploring what options we can perform to work around this. From the extreme of completely blocking access to those two BT DNS servers, to pushing for firmware updates.
The blocking method will work. As above, if the DNS times out or fails, the Netgear reverts to other known DNS, so moving back to ours. Concerns we have is "are those DNS used for anything else", aka, will we break as much as we fix.
Anotherone.
If you notice the trace, the IP that is being traced to is a BT IP and not Googles IP as the machine thinks it is. This is caused by the DNS bug listed above and seems an issue quick specific to Netgear Ethernet Routers.
DNS needs to be right before tracing first and the gateway is nothing to be concerned about in that trace. That is normal of the BT core network routing.
davidcrocker
Dabbler
Posts: 16
Registered: 31-01-2011

Re: Re-directed to BT Wholesale

Quote from: P
A quick fix is to power cycle the Netgear.

That didn't work for me, nor for a friend who also has Plusnet fibre and the Netgear modem. Configuring the DNS server IP addresses in the router worked for both of us.
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,099
Thanks: 434
Fixes: 21
Registered: 31-08-2007

Re: Re-directed to BT Wholesale

Quote from: P
Anotherone.
If you notice the trace, the IP that is being traced to is a BT IP and not Googles IP as the machine thinks it is. This is caused by the DNS bug listed above and seems an issue quick specific to Netgear Ethernet Routers.
DNS needs to be right before tracing first and the gateway is nothing to be concerned about in that trace. That is normal of the BT core network routing.

Thanks for that Phil. I did spot the IP seemed wrong after I posted but never pursued it as I had to get something to eat and reply to a PM, a bit sloppy on my part really. And thanks for the explanation above as well, so that's two things I've learnt tonight!
FoolishlyWise
Grafter
Posts: 256
Thanks: 3
Registered: 16-02-2010

Re: Re-directed to BT Wholesale

Quote from: P
We believe this is problem exists across all of Netgear Ethernet routers base, were you connect using PPPoE.

Sorry for the late reply, was revising through the night and didnt check this hahaha.
Yah, I was using PPPoE.
I usually use OpenDNS for DNS; out of interest, does this make a difference? I remember vaguely that I reset the router, let it find its own DNS, and three weeks down the line this message kept coming up!
When I first saw it on my laptop, I tried my PC. Nothing came up. Then a couple of people in the household were like 'dude have you killed the internet again or something?!'
When testing on my Macbook (with and without bootcamp to see if would make a difference), some sites that didnt work on the laptop or my pc worked, whilst others didn't.
Oddness  Huh
prichardson
Grafter
Posts: 1,503
Registered: 05-04-2007

Re: Re-directed to BT Wholesale

It does not matter which DNS you use, such as Google, OpenDns or ours. Any public ones will do.
You indicated you reset the router and let it obtain its own DNS. Was this setting applied in your most recent experiences of the BT Wholesale pages?
If so, that's fine. Well, fine in the context that we know why it happened.
If you had custom DNS in your router in the most recent events, then this suggests a further problem with that model of Netgear. The bug we have found is cured on the WNR1000 by using custom DNS.
FoolishlyWise
Grafter
Posts: 256
Thanks: 3
Registered: 16-02-2010

Re: Re-directed to BT Wholesale

Yep, pre-reset, I used OpenDNS. After this, I just reset the router and let it do its thing, it got the PlusNet IP addresses, and then I started getting the BTW Redirects. Then I changed to OpenDNS and STILL got the errors (but a lot less frequent than before, in four weeks, Ive had it once vs. around 25 times pre-reset).
I have a WNDR4000, I suppose its the same series so might have the same issue as the 1000.
Excellent router though, perfect for fibre when it eventually arrives at the big green cabinet thingybob at the end of the road. Its a shame it has this kind of problem however.
Aman.
prichardson
Grafter
Posts: 1,503
Registered: 05-04-2007

Re: Re-directed to BT Wholesale

That sounds like a more serious issue then on the WNDR4000 than we are seeing.
If coded into the config to use OpenDNS and still seeing them, there is absolutely no reason for it to be happening, other than some function of the router given that the problem is a function of the router, rather than the Plusnet network
However given your description of how often it happens, do not expect a fix from Netgear, as the packet captures you need to perform would likely take forever to obtain.
Let us see what we get from Netgear on our problem. Once they acknowledge the source of it, I will see if we can share the ticket ID, which may assist you in raising the nature of your problem.
NRV618
Grafter
Posts: 37
Registered: 27-02-2012

Re: Re-directed to BT Wholesale

Thank you all very much for your advise, it worked wonderfully for me.
Unfortunately I had already had a rant at Customer Services because I had to deal with this issue for almost TWO weeks..!
All sorted now, I will make my way to the Customer Service web site and close all those nasty tickets..  LoL
Thanks again guys..!
Plusnet Help Team
Plusnet Help Team
Posts: 12,859
Thanks: 115
Fixes: 35
Registered: 27-04-2007

Re: Re-directed to BT Wholesale

Sorry to hear that took time to resolve. I'll make sure you're appreciation is passed on to those that helped you.
If this post resolved your issue please click the 'This fixed my problem' button
 Adam Walker
 Plusnet Help Team