Question on 2704N Statistics

[#1]

Hi,
Quick question if anyone happens to know.  Is there a figure anywhere in the 2704N statistics that tells me how long the DSL session has been up?
On the Helpdesk page there's an Uptime figure, which I had been assuming refers purely to the time the router's been powered on.  However it currently shows 5 days, meaning a reboot or power cycle mid day Tuesday which I'm pretty sure was not the case.  On the other hand, at some time during Tuesday our synch rate changed to the figure that it's showed ever since.

Thanks, Tony S

[#2]

The Helpdesk page Uptime is the PPP session. So loss of PPP or sync or reboot/power cycle will reset it.
If you login using http://192.168.1.254/expert_user.html - the Uptime on the >Device Info (Summary) page is the Power On Uptime.
>Device Info >Statistics >xDSL is where you'll find detailed stats but no specific DSL uptime.

[#3]

Thanks, comparing the two shows the PPP session has the same uptime as the router, showing a reboot or restart of both around midday last Tuesday.  Not sure why that would have happened, but that also corresponds with Plusnet's radius log.
I also found a hopeful looking parameter "Showtime Start (Seconds)", on the device info page.  Next time I'm unplugging anything I'll see if that appears to be what I think,  looking at the current figure it doesn't quite add up as it would suggest a DSL reconnection on Thur.  I would have expect to see at least a small change in synch speed if that had happened, but I guess you never know.

[#4]

Ah, had forgotten about that and can't check because mine is not on-line. Can you do a screen grab and attach to a post with Additional Options?

[#5]

Here you go ...

[#6]

Ah yes. Anyway that works out at 5 days 47 seconds. How does that tie in with the PPP uptime on the Helpdesk page? It's less isn't it? How odd! I can't say I took too much notice before as this 2704n firmware version is a bit of a pig

[#7]

Just a thought, was the Downstream Line Rate 4544 or higher before this drop? What's the DS SNRM at present?

[#8]

Hi, I've got one of these routers and I 'think' this is what the various 'uptime' figures show:
1. Main helpdesk.html page: Uptime - time since last PPP session reconnect
2. expert_user.html page - Device Info: Uptime - time since last re-boot of router
3. expert_user.html page - Device Info: Showtime - time since the xDSL statistics page was last reset. This would normally coincide with the time from a re-boot unless the stats are reset manually.
I've managed to figure this out as I check my stats daily and reset the xDSL stats page so my router is showing three different times! Time since last re-boot (2), time since last session reconnect (1) and time since I last reset the stats (3).
(By the way, I reset the stats page so I can user the DLM checker on the Kitz site to check the line quality - I've got a very noisy line and I keep a record of each days figures just in case!)
Hope this might be of some help  Definitely agree that the 2704n firmware is yuck.

[#9]

Hey, well spotted Caerefail. One thing I have ever rarely done on any modem/router is reset the stats page, and I certainly don't recall doing so on the 2704n. Nice spot for that Showtime   aesmith could check his out (I can't, mine isn't on line).
Welcome to the forum btw, I see no-one did that one your previous posts.

[#10]

Thanks 

[#11]

Yes, that corresponds.  As it happens I reset the stats last night, and Showtime Seconds now equates to 14 hours or so.  I must have done so on Thursday.
I am reasonably sure the DSL hasn't retrained since last Tuesday, because normally any disconnect/reconnect gives a slight change in speed and I've not seen any such change.  Also the SNRM is pretty low now, so I'd expect a reconnection to be slower.

[#12]

Quote from: aesmith

I am reasonably sure the DSL hasn't retrained since last Tuesday, because normally any disconnect/reconnect gives a slight change in speed and I've not seen any such change.   Also the SNRM is pretty low now, so I'd expect a reconnection to be slower.

Both points are quite correct.
The reason for my question in reply #6 was that such a speed change would have resulted in a profile change on 20CN, and that would normally cause a PPP drop when your Current Line speed updates.
When you say the SNRM is pretty low now - how low? Certainly on 20CN you want to try and avoid a resync if the SNRM is much below 6.3.

[#13]

Interesting.  The profile's changed a few times recently.. 
  Was 3.7 before all this router swapping business
  Dropped to 3.0 when router was swapped last Monday
  Rest to 4.2 around mid day last Tuesday
  Reported as 4.2 in the  ticket at 12:00 on Thurday (Connection Profile (WP):Generic Speed 4200 No Time Out).
However when I look at the Member Centre current line speed it now says 3.5.
I wasn't aware that a profile change caused a PPP reset, and it doesn't appear that the last change has done so.  Actually I had been wondering before I saw you post about whether I needed to do a PPP disconnect/reconnect to bring the profile into effect.  The line does currently behave as if  it's shaped to 3.0 with speed tests returning around 2.8 or 2.9.
Noise margin is currently 4.2dB down.
For background, I have a long standing fault under investigation, the fault being episodes of very high latency.  Plusnet keeps putting that fault back on hold pending concerns about the local loop, so I'm keen to show that the DSL line is staying up and stable so they don't get distracted from the real issue.

[#14]

Hmm, why anyone with any knowledge about ADSL would assume the local loop has anything to do with latency, unless of course your noise margins were dropping so very low (I'm talking near 0dB) so the CRC rate goes through the roof, I don't know
Of course I'm assuming you are on a 20CN connection because of the 448 upstream rather that just being set on ADSL1 on 21CN, and when you say "Reset to 4.2" around midday last Tuesday, was that an SNR Reset done by Plusnet?
It shouldn't do any harm to log into the 2704n and click Disconnect to drop the PPP session, wait about 30 seconds and the click Connect, but check which Gateway you are on before and after. Frequently, unless the PPP has dropped, you don't pick up the new profile.
You might want to keep a note of the Gateways you are on with regard to the latency problem just in case you see a pattern.
The other thing worth mentioning is that inexperienced/badly trained agents make an assumption that when they check the Radius logs (even post a Vis Radius on your ticket) that the PPP drops are always caused by DSL drops, which may not be the case if you've been hopping Gateways.

[#15]

Quote from: Anotherone

Hmm, why anyone with any knowledge about ADSL would assume the local loop has anything to do with latency, unless of course your noise margins were dropping so very low (I'm talking near 0dB) so the CRC rate goes through the roof, I don't know

That's the point I've been trying to get Plusnet to accept.  At times they get near to doing so, but always have the get out of saying that "their suppliers" won't let them do this or that until the local loop is checked out. 
Picking up your last point, even in that worst case with zillions of CRC errors, how much latency can actually be created in the DSL path?    The examples I've shown Plusnet have always shown 100% success rate, ie no packets lost or retransmitted, but RTT of up to 2000ms or sometimes  even more.    I've been assuming that this sort of delay must be due to queuing or other traffic engineering matters,  However  I'm aware that there is some sort of retry or recovery at the ATM/DSL level.  However I have trouble believing that any such mechanism can hold up a packet for hundreds of milliseconds.  Normally at L2 you'd expect errored frames to be dropped and rely on the higher level protocols for recovery, but DSL seems to be a bit of a law to itself.
"Reset to 4.2" around midday last Tuesday"  was an IP Profile change by Plusnet.  It's just a coincidence that it's the same as the noise margin I saw just now.    Target has remained as 6dB.  Things got a bit mixed up last week as the Plusnet guy was actually looking at a different customer's line stats (and posted them into the ticket)    So the change to 4.2meg might have been due to this other customer's stats which have a much higher synch rate but a lot of instability.    That kind of makes sense because 4.2 is a bit high for our connection.
I have Openreach (or possibly SFI) on Thursday so I'm going to leave the link strictly as is until then.  You're correct it's 20CN.