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Q re phone extension lead and first 10 days

DaveRiley
Newbie
Posts: 7
Registered: 07-01-2013

Q re phone extension lead and first 10 days

I’m currently waiting for my (Essentials) service to be activated and have a couple of questions about connecting the router:
The master socket (an old LJU, not an NTE5) is downstairs but the PC is upstairs. I’m uncertain as to the quality of the (Maplin) phone extension lead that already goes from the master socket to near the PC and I gather that during the first 10 days the exchange determines the max speed that the line can handle.
1) So, is it a reasonable strategy to plug the router into the master socket for the first 10 days so that max speed will be set as high as possible? Then try the router on the extension and if I get drop-outs see about replacing the extension?
(If I really have to I can site the router downstairs and run a cat5 upstairs but prefer not to as it’s a lot more hassle – drilling a bigger hole in a wall, buying a crimp tool, etc).
2) I need the phone upstairs too so should I plug the extension directly into the master socket so it carries the unfiltered signal or is it better to use 2 separate cables?
Thanks,
Dave
31 REPLIES
Plusnet Help Team
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Re: Q re phone extension lead and first 10 days

Quote
1) So, is it a reasonable strategy to plug the router into the master socket for the first 10 days so that max speed will be set as high as possible? Then try the router on the extension and if I get drop-outs see about replacing the extension?

You could do that yes, however if the extension causes a reduction in sync speeds that would then lead to the speed dropping.
Quote
2) I need the phone upstairs too so should I plug the extension directly into the master socket so it carries the unfiltered signal or is it better to use 2 separate cables?

You should be fine with one cable. However have you considered leaving the router downstairs and using wireless or perhaps run an ethernet cable upstairs?
If this post resolved your issue please click the 'This fixed my problem' button
 Adam Walker
 Plusnet Help Team
DaveRiley
Newbie
Posts: 7
Registered: 07-01-2013

Re: Q re phone extension lead and first 10 days

Quote from: _Adam_Walker_
You could do that yes, however if the extension causes a reduction in sync speeds that would then lead to the speed dropping.

Thanks Alan. Sorry, I wasn't clear. I was concerned that if I connect the router via the extension and get a lower max speed then, even if I replace the extension with a better one, I won't get a higher speed because it's already been (permanently) set low by the 10-day settling process.
Quote from: _Adam_Walker_
You should be fine with one cable. However have you considered leaving the router downstairs and using wireless or perhaps run an ethernet cable upstairs?

I could use WiFi but I'd have to buy a wireless adapter and as I said, running a cat5 upstairs would be a much bigger hassle than just replacing the existing phone extension lead. I'm just looking for the easiest solution.
Thanks,
Dave
Community Veteran
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Re: Q re phone extension lead and first 10 days

Quote from: DaveRiley
running a cat5 upstairs would be a much bigger hassle than just replacing the existing phone extension lead.

You can run ethernet up to 100mbps over phone cable.  Wink
Needs to be "proper" CW1308 twisted pair though, and you need both pairs and probably have to put the RJ45 plugs on yourself.
Or use powerline/homeplug adapters?
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Re: Q re phone extension lead and first 10 days

Quote from: DaveRiley
2) I need the phone upstairs too so should I plug the extension directly into the master socket

From this it sounds as if it is one of those cheap phone extension kits that plugs in the a phone socket (frequently using a doubler). If so the wire may be pretty substandard and give issues with the broadband if the filter is upstairs.
@HPSauce Using the existing cable for Ethernet isn't an option:
Quote from: DaveRiley
2) I need the phone upstairs too

jelv (a.k.a Spoon Whittler)
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itsme
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Re: Q re phone extension lead and first 10 days

The main purpose of the 10 day training is to set speed threshold levels for fault reporting. BT will not accept a speed fault if your current speed is above these levels. After the 10 days the speed can/will be dynamic so if line conditions change then the sync speed could change but the fault threshold levels will not.
So I would suggest going with your strategy 1 but also unplug the extension lead from the master socket for the training period.
DaveRiley
Newbie
Posts: 7
Registered: 07-01-2013

Re: Q re phone extension lead and first 10 days

Thanks HPSauce, jelv and itsme.
HPSauce - I'd love to be able to use HomePlugs but that's not feasible (long story, due to inaccessibility of the wall socket it'd have to be plugged into an extension on an extension).
jelv -  the extension lead was from Maplin so it was cheap'ish, though the cable looks exactly like the "proper" CW1308 they sell by the metre. Having now heard from some others using really naff extensions I'm hoping that everything's going to be okay, with minimal speed loss.
itsme - that's what I wanted to hear - that speed will increase even after the first 10 days if I improve the wiring. I will also unplug the extension as you suggest (and I've already checked that the ring wires aren't connected inside the master socket).
Dave
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Re: Q re phone extension lead and first 10 days

I'd give that extension cable "a good feel" to check it's twisted pair. If not it will be doing you no favours at all; I'd bin it if there's any doubt.
Could you run a new CW1308 cable from the master socket in place of that extension? If so you could fit a filtered faceplate there and run phone and ADSL separately (using a pair each) to twin sockets where you need them - one with phone the other RJ11.
See here how to add an NTE5 legally: http://www.clarity.it/telecoms/nte5.htm
itsme
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Re: Q re phone extension lead and first 10 days

Standard wiring for an extension is 2 pairs. New owners move into the house plug a phone in the extension and it does not ring. Why, because the previous owner only used a single pair to the extension.
Community Veteran
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Re: Q re phone extension lead and first 10 days

Now that is being picky.  Cheesy
Anyway very few modern phones need other than 2 wires.  Wink
(and those that do are instantly "fixed" by plugging in an ADSL filter - I've actually had to do that for one I have)
I'm sure that can be dealt with at the appropriate time; rip it all out if necessary.  Grin
mplusnetuser
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Registered: 03-02-2011

Re: Q re phone extension lead and first 10 days

Quote from: DaveRiley
jelv -  the extension lead was from Maplin so it was cheap'ish, though the cable looks exactly like the "proper" CW1308 they sell by the metre. Having now heard from some others using really naff extensions I'm hoping that everything's going to be okay, with minimal speed loss.
itsme - that's what I wanted to hear - that speed will increase even after the first 10 days if I improve the wiring. I will also unplug the extension as you suggest (and I've already checked that the ring wires aren't connected inside the master socket).

I've been advised that the presence of a bell wire in the extension lead is what causes the interference (however mild or severe that may be in individual circumstances) whether or not it is connected to anything inside the master socket (which mine is not).
I'm told that mine, a cheapo like this, will certainly have a bell wire. While it sounds like your CW1308-alike may not, so this may be moot.
I don't have any personal expertise or experience in this: I'm just passing on what I've been advised.
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Re: Q re phone extension lead and first 10 days

Quote from: mplusnetuser
I've been advised that the presence of a bell wire in the extension lead is what causes the interference (however mild or severe that may be in individual circumstances) whether or not it is connected to anything inside the master socket (which mine is not).

Yes, that is basically correct, the bell wire acts like an aerial picking up radio interference.
With ANY extension lead that is pre-wired the bell wire will be connected to your equipment, feeding that signal in by one means or another.
The only way to eliminate it is to ensure that the bell wire is NOT connected at either end.
Now the extension lead here will likely have a filter plugged into it which "may" limit the pickup at that end, depending on its internal design.
But the other end is apparently plugged into an old-style master so will inevitably feed the interference in that way.
One possible way to deal with this is to break off the relevant metal contacts in plugs/sockets to ensure no connection. But it's tricky to do effectively.
Remember BT plugs/sockets are designed for 6 contacts, but typically only the central 4 (2,3,4,5) are used.
The phone/ADSL signal only need 2 and 5 so it's the central pair (3 and 4) that need to be eliminated.
DaveRiley
Newbie
Posts: 7
Registered: 07-01-2013

Re: Q re phone extension lead and first 10 days

My extension lead does have 4 cores and it plugs directly into the master socket. But I've removed the faceplate of the master socket (as I said, it's an old LJU) and the ring wires were not connected at all, i.e. only 2 wires are connected to the master socket's faceplate. At the other end I wired it to a wall socket and I didn't connect the ring wire. So the ring wire is in the cable but isn't connected at either end.
HPSauce - as you surmised I think the extension cable may just be 4 cores flat, not 2 twisted pairs, so I may replace it with CW1308. However, can't I just use it to carry unfiltered signal from the master socket upstairs then plug a filter into the extension socket *upstairs* and plug the router into that. Is there any advantage to separately running digital and analog signals along the extension cable, especially inside the same cable?
(I will need to connect a phone downstairs too but the current extension has one of those plugs (where it plugs into the master socket) that has a socket on it too, and the phone is currently plugged into that - presumably I can just insert a filter there).
Community Veteran
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Re: Q re phone extension lead and first 10 days

I think you're missing the point about the master socket.
If it really is a master socket it will have electronic components in it (to create the bell signal among other things) that link to the bell wire.
If it doesn't, it's not the master.....
Like this:
And yes, it will only have 2 wires coming in from outside, but if you plug a pre-terminated 4-core lead into it it WILL mess up your broadband.  Cry
DaveRiley
Newbie
Posts: 7
Registered: 07-01-2013

Re: Q re phone extension lead and first 10 days

Okay, I see, sorry for being dense :-). Hmmm, it's not easy to do anything about this then, other than to break the connection on the back of the faceplate between the socket and  the circuit board. Though I guess that would be very naughty :-(.
I shall have to do some thinking to decide what the easiest way round this is. Though as I said before, I have heard from a few other people (on another forum - CIX) who have pretty much the same setup with a cheap and long extension cable between their master socket and the router and they get good speeds, almost up to max ADSL2+ levels, so before I do anything drastic I'll see what happens with it as it is.
Thanks,
Dave