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Postini Feedback / Manage My Mail Improvements

Strat
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Registered: ‎14-04-2007

Re: Postini Feedback / Manage My Mail Improvements

I was one of the original Postini trialists and followed the original Postini threads with interest.
But pressures of work and other things took my attention off and things have moved on 'behind my back'.
I suppose I expected Plusnet account to Plusnet account emails to still traverse the network unhindered.
We had a problem with this in the early days but I thought it was fixed for good. Undecided
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freebird
Newbie
Posts: 9
Registered: ‎16-04-2008

Re: Postini Feedback / Manage My Mail Improvements

Quote
Problem 50966 Customers not receiving daily quarantine summary - Work in progress. Postini advise not dropping the interval between notifications below 3 days. However to change this to 3 days from 7 would require someone to make approximately 2000 manual updates, as there are 2000 orgs: two email orgs each with about 990 sub orgs. At the moment we can find no method to do this via a batch command, so the next step is to contact Postini.

Does anyone know when Postini will be contacted?  This has been the "next step" for quite a while now.  Undecided
PS still don't get the 7 day summary
bobpullen
Community Gaffer
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Re: Postini Feedback / Manage My Mail Improvements

Quote from: ChrisL
Bob, please can we have 'neptune-rslt: qtine' always tagged as spam, rather than simply bumped up a setting?

We used to do that with a previous incarnation of this header AFAIK, however there was some negative feedback IIRC. Can anybody see any problems with this? It can certainly be considered but I wouldn't want to make anything worse for anyone?
Quote from: ChrisL
Strat, I don't think there's any reason why PlusNet would whitelist your domains just because they host them. Your email was given the relay header, but that is only significant if the from address is whitelisted.

TBH, I thought we did whitelist hosted domains at one point. It definitely doesn't seem to be the case now though. I'll have a glance back through some of the earlier problem notes as I need to refresh my memory somewhat as far as this is concerned.
Quote from: freebird
Quote
Problem 50966 Customers not receiving daily quarantine summary - Work in progress. Postini advise not dropping the interval between notifications below 3 days. However to change this to 3 days from 7 would require someone to make approximately 2000 manual updates, as there are 2000 orgs: two email orgs each with about 990 sub orgs. At the moment we can find no method to do this via a batch command, so the next step is to contact Postini.

Does anyone know when Postini will be contacted?  This has been the "next step" for quite a while now.  Undecided
PS still don't get the 7 day summary

Bad news on this front I'm afraid Sad
Postinii have confirmed that we cannot send quarantine notifications to default users. In a nutshell this means that these notifications are never going to work the way the system is currently configured. We'd need a complete redesign in order to facilitate this functionality. With approximately 400 customers using Quarantine it is likely that the notification email option is going to be removed and the support content updated accordingly.

Bob Pullen
Plusnet Product Team
If I've been helpful then please give thanks ⤵

jelv
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Re: Postini Feedback / Manage My Mail Improvements

Could you explain how the quarantine notification works please. I have one particular prefix on one of my hosted domains which is forward to another person (not on Plusnet). Although the Plusnet interface does not allow for this does the Postini system allow for her having a separate login to the Postini message centre and her own Postini quarantine report?
jelv (a.k.a Spoon Whittler)
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bobpullen
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Re: Postini Feedback / Manage My Mail Improvements

Quote
Although the Plusnet interface does not allow for this does the Postini system allow for her having a separate login to the Postini message centre and her own Postini quarantine report?

There was a facility to set up additional aliases or logins in the extra settings section of the Message Centre that was removed as part of Problem 50947 Existing customers can access Quarantine settings. I'll need to clarify my understanding but I think Postini's system only allow the sending of Quarantine reports to these specific aliases.
I'll try and get a better explanation of the system limitations jelv and report back.

Bob Pullen
Plusnet Product Team
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ChrisL
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Re: Postini Feedback / Manage My Mail Improvements

Quote from: Bob
Quote from: ChrisL
Bob, please can we have 'neptune-rslt: qtine' always tagged as spam, rather than simply bumped up a setting?

We used to do that with a previous incarnation of this header AFAIK, however there was some negative feedback IIRC.

My memory is that PN always treated the neptune header the way it does now, simply having to redo when the header changed to 'neptune-cave-rslt: qtine' or whatever.  The question is, has anybody seen this header on a genuine email that Postini would have wrongly quarantined?  I really don't think I have, and I check quite a lot....
Quote from: Bob
TBH, I thought we did whitelist hosted domains at one point. It definitely doesn't seem to be the case now though.

I can see problems if you (re)start doing this, Bob.  At least, I think you'd have to remember to add and check the plusnet relay header, as per the plus.net domain whitelist...?
pierre_pierre
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Re: Postini Feedback / Manage My Mail Improvements

this was a test e-mail from me to the wife both on user.me.uk  a Plusnet address post last years muk up
why marked as Spam?
Quote
Return-path: <mr@user.me.uk>
Envelope-to: sue@user.me.uk
Delivery-date: Tue, 13 May 2008 19:23:07 +0100
Received: from exprod5mx251.postini.com ([64.18.0.171] helo=psmtp.com)
  by pih-sunmxcore19.plus.net with smtp (PlusNet MXCore v2.00) id 1Jvz9W-0005rP-Ts
  for sue@user.me.uk; Tue, 13 May 2008 19:23:07 +0100
Received: from source ([212.159.14.131]) (using TLSv1) by exprod5mx251.postini.com ([64.18.4.10]) with SMTP;
Tue, 13 May 2008 14:23:04 EDT
Received: from [87.113.73.110] (helo=yourdde8876fe8)
by pih-relay04.plus.net with smtp (Exim) id 1Jvz9T-0006WA-DZ
for sue@user.me.uk; Tue, 13 May 2008 19:23:03 +0100
Message-ID: <000601c8b526$6103e8d0$0301a8c0@yourdde8876fe8>
From: "user" <mr@user.me.uk>
To: "Sue" <sue@user.me.uk>
Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 19:22:57 +0100
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198
X-Plusnet-Relay: 62450f52776e1ef35c9adf35a104b416
X-pstn-neptune: 23/14/0.61/66
X-pstn-levels:    (S: 0.13118/99.66949 CV:99.0000 )
X-pstn-settings: 1 (0.1500:0.1500) cv gt3 gt2 gt1
X-pstn-addresses: from <mr@user.me.uk> [599/22]
X-pstn-neptune-cave-rslt: qtine
X-pn-pstn: Spam 1
X-PN-Virus-Filtered: by PlusNet MXCore (v4.00)
X-PN-Spam-Filtered: by PlusNet MXCore (v4.00)
Subject: [-SPAM-] this is a test of your eyes
X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 7.5.524 [269.23.16/1429]
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original
ChrisL
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Re: Postini Feedback / Manage My Mail Improvements

pierre, the short answer is, of course, that the postini bulk filter scored it as spam
Quote
X-pstn-levels:    (S: 0.13118/99.66949 CV:99.0000 )
X-pstn-settings: 1 (0.1500:0.1500) cv gt3 gt2 gt1

It seems to do this as a matter of routine when it sees emails from a plusnet server going to a plusnet server, unless the from address is whitelisted. Just don't ask me why Roll_eyes
Interestingly, your email has also been caught by the neptune filter, which I think looks at sending behaviour.  This knocks on the head my theory that no genuine email gets the neptune: qtine header Sad (Though if the address was whitelisted anyway, presumably this wouldn't result in the email actually being sent to quarantine?)
ChrisL
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Re: Postini Feedback / Manage My Mail Improvements

I've also just had a false positive with the neptune-cave-rslt: qtine header.
It seems if an email is falsly marked as spam by the bulk filter, it might also be caught by the neptune filter. I still don't think I've had a genuine email marked for quarantine by neptune without also being caught by the bulk filter.
Capvermell
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Re: Postini Feedback / Manage My Mail Improvements

I have now had several of the below Viagra site spams get through to me by masquerading as "Subject:- Undelivered Mail Return To Sender"  Yet they have an x-pstn level of 1 and a Return Path of blank (empty) so why are Postini and/or Plusnet allowing these to get through to me instead of them going in to my Postini Quarantine folder?  They use some kind of image for the From VIAGRA ® Official Site <captnur@click-online.net> part of the email so these don't appear when I cut and paste the headers and  body below.  However the real Sender is only <> (blank)
If the image link content was actually examined by Postini it would be blatantly obvious it was a linking to a site with images and content about Viagra.  Also surely all emails with a return path of blank should be either automatically consigned as Spam or better still Edge Filtered by Postini without any further questions being asked?
Who is at fault here?  Is It Plusnet or Postini? 
See below:-
Quote

-------- Original Message --------
From: - Wed May 14 10:07:23 2008
X-Account-Key: account5
X-UIDL: UID7463-1130190325
X-Mozilla-Status: 0001
X-Mozilla-Status2: 10000000
X-Mozilla-Keys:
Return-path: <>
Envelope-to: xxxx@xxxx.plus.com
Delivery-date: Wed, 14 May 2008 09:48:48 +0100
Received: from exprod5mx215.postini.com ([64.18.0.74] helo=psmtp.com) by pih-sunmxcore09.plus.net with smtp (PlusNet MXCore v2.00) id 1JwCfH-0000KV-Ng for xxxx@xxxxxx.plus.com; Wed, 14 May 2008 09:48:48 +0100
Received: from source ([202.168.240.198]) (using TLSv1) by exprod5mx215.postini.com ([64.18.4.11]) with SMTP; Wed, 14 May 2008 03:48:39 CDT
Received: by mail.click-online.net (Postfix) id 17E8892F59B; Wed, 14 May 2008 14:59:14 +0600 (BDT)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 14:59:14 +0600 (BDT)
From: MAILER-DAEMON@mail.click-online.net (Mail Delivery System)
To: xxxx@xxxxxx.plus.com
Auto-Submitted: auto-replied
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/report; report-type=delivery-status; boundary="1060592F595.1210755554/mail.click-online.net"
Message-Id: <20080514085914.17E8892F59B@mail.click-online.net>
X-pstn-neptune: 6/6/1.00/85
X-pstn-levels: (S: 8.57783/99.90000 CV:99.0000 )
X-pstn-settings: 1 (0.1500:0.1500) cv gt3 gt2 gt1
X-pstn-addresses: from <MAILER-DAEMON@mail.click-online.net> [243/12]
X-PN-Virus-Filtered: by PlusNet MXCore (v4.00)
X-PN-Spam-Filtered: by PlusNet MXCore (v4.00)
Subject: Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender
X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 080513-0, 13/05/2008), Inbound message
X-Antivirus-Status: Clean

This is the mail system at host mail.click-online.net.
I'm sorry to have to inform you that your message could not
be delivered to one or more recipients. It's attached below.
For further assistance, please send mail to postmaster.
If you do so, please include this problem report. You can
delete your own text from the attached returned message.
                   The mail system
<NULL@mail.click-online.net> (expanded from <captnur@click-online.net>):
    unknown user: "null"
spraxyt
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Re: Postini Feedback / Manage My Mail Improvements

The x-pstn-settings: 1 line reflects the aggression level setting set within your Postini account and is nothing to do with spam scoring. The spam score assigned by Postini is on the x-pstn-levels: line and is 8.57783. Since that is greater than 8 PlusNet treat the message as not-spam and do not add an X-pn-pstn: Spam x header.
So the fault is with Postini detection and not PlusNet. The spammers continuously change tactics and I expect Postini are working to improve their handling of this development. Submitting this message as an attachment to spam@spamtraining.plus.com would be appropriate.
David
Capvermell
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Re: Postini Feedback / Manage My Mail Improvements

Quote from: spraxyt
The x-pstn-settings: 1 line reflects the aggression level setting set within your Postini account and is nothing to do with spam scoring. The spam score assigned by Postini is on the x-pstn-levels: line and is 8.57783. Since that is greater than 8 PlusNet treat the message as not-spam and do not add an X-pn-pstn: Spam x header.

Surely a Return Path field of blank is always going to be from a spammer so why would it not always get an appropriate level of spam scoring by Postini or better still be edge filtered?
Anyone using a Return Path of blank surely has something to hide and is likely to be operating illegally.
Also I note that I cannot even set up a sender address or Return Path of blank as a blocked address in my Plusnet email account Spam configuration settings. Angry
spraxyt
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Re: Postini Feedback / Manage My Mail Improvements

Quote from: Capvermell
Surely a Return Path field of blank is always going to be from a spammer so why would it not always get an appropriate level of spam scoring by Postini or better still be edge filtered?
Anyone using a Return Path of blank surely has something to hide and is likely to be operating illegally.

I would think that is most likely to be the case, however if genuine mail to you was rejected because of a third-party fault resulting in a blank field you might take a different view.
As I said earlier we need to submit samples like the one you received to help Postini develop their spam detection engine to deal with this sort of thing.
David
bobpullen
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Re: Postini Feedback / Manage My Mail Improvements

Quote from: Capvermell
Surely a Return Path field of blank is always going to be from a spammer so why would it not always get an appropriate level of spam scoring by Postini or better still be edge filtered?

I might be wrong however I'm pretty sure that <> is a valid return path as far as RFC's are concerned.

Bob Pullen
Plusnet Product Team
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Capvermell
Rising Star
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Re: Postini Feedback / Manage My Mail Improvements

Quote from: Bob
I might be wrong however I'm pretty sure that <> is a valid return path as far as RFC's are concerned.

What is an RFC?  I see rfc822 in headers sometimes. Is that what you mean?
I still can't find any emails I get where the return path is blank and it is a non spam email.  Also what about Viagra in the imagery on these mails and the website it points at selling Viagra!