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Poor performance every evening - upstream problem?

Anotherone
Champion
Posts: 19,107
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Registered: ‎31-08-2007

Re: Poor performance every evening - upstream problem?

Who is responding to your tickets (no names on the forum) is it CSC agents or BOT - DSL: logged Faults?
There are several different issues with congestion, they aren't all a single cause.
Depending on your reply, I'll make a suggestion.
Madmac
Grafter
Posts: 28
Registered: ‎04-02-2015

Re: Poor performance every evening - upstream problem?

Had both... CSC started with the problem and did the standard tests then I raised a new ticket with BOT who did deeper diagnostics but found no problem with the line (as I expected) so basically told me that I was trying to download too much and use the connection at the same time.
Really pissed off (excuse my French) with that answer to be fair.
My options.
1 - put up with paying for a service which only works 18 out of 24 hours
2 - keep pushing for a resolution, despite being almost told the problem is not real
3 - bite the £100+ fee (as I am in contract) and move suppliers.
Not sure which yet....
Anotherone
Champion
Posts: 19,107
Thanks: 457
Fixes: 21
Registered: ‎31-08-2007

Re: Poor performance every evening - upstream problem?

If you saturate the connection (download or upload), you may well get some packet loss. But if you are only doing something like a bit of Streaming say and you are seeing a BQM like the last one linked, then it's clear there is a congestion issue, especially with the familiar hump in the minimum latency.
I would take option 2, certainly not 3, and I wouldn't put up with 1 for too long.
I would respond to the ticket more firmly. Re-attach that BQM and make a further statement about the usage at that time, or even a BQM from a more recent time where say it's obvious your usage is light from browsing and streaming etc and will be clearly logged at VMBU and make a comment along the lines of ....if you bother to look at my recorded usage (VMBU) over the times of the BQM attached, you will see the connection is not being heavily used. This is a clear indication of congestion as previously stated along with the well know hump in minimum latency.  If you do not see or understand that then maybe someone would understands these issues should be dealing with my ticket. Have you for example checked my SVLAN for congestion? Or have we reached the point that I need to make a formal complaint?
Madmac
Grafter
Posts: 28
Registered: ‎04-02-2015

Re: Poor performance every evening - upstream problem?

You're right and I have started crafting a very carefully worded set of text to paste into a ticket and will be doing so very soon.
Option 1 has 30 days before a formal complaint and then option 3 with a letter to OFCOM to support. There are enough people on here showing similar issues but PN seems to be deaf to them...
Thanks again.
soutter
Newbie
Posts: 4
Registered: ‎28-07-2014

Re: Poor performance every evening - upstream problem?

We have the same problem.  First Plus Net told us it was a problem with our equipment the favourite to try and con us out of £60 for a tech visit.  I had a friendly BT engineer check it out no problems he tells me its the Plus Net router which is old and which Plus net have know about for years.    So then I call them back and they send me a new router that has the same fault.  Another new router this router does not even turn on.    Finally they send me a brand new router from the new gratin that works and speeds go up a bit.
We then have really excessive noise on the line where by we can't use the telephone really,  they offer the engineer again £60 if the fault is in the house.    Noise then stops speeds now so slow that you even log on to down load emails.  Speak to technical support who then change the settings on my account and lo and behold the speed is restored.
The intermittent every few days drop in speed still occurs and all Plus net want to do is sell us an enchanted service.    They are a bunch of crooks who make BT's old way of screwing the customer seem benign. 
A trully dreadful company who promise the earth and deliver nothing at all most of the time.
Anotherone
Champion
Posts: 19,107
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Registered: ‎31-08-2007

Re: Poor performance every evening - upstream problem?

Sorry soutter, you have been given a totally misleading impression of what has gone wrong. Your issue would affect your line at other times, not just evening peak times.
If you have a line fault, which it sounds as though you have, and it could well be intermittent, then it will mess up your broadband until it's fixed. If the intermittent issue settles (without being repaired) then you can get periods of good broadband in between. The intermittency and noise in the first instance will cause exchange automated DLM (Dynamic Line Management) to alter settings on your line to try and stabilise the connection - this usually results in slower speeds. Plusnet cannot cause an intermittent fault on your line, nor can they directly control the actions that DLM imposes.  They can however reset the settings, called an SNRM Reset, if the line appears stable.
Plusnet do not "con you out of £60 for a tech visit". If you have followed all the diagnostic checks in the faults procedure and demonstrated that the fault exists when you are connected to the test socket, then there is no issue. Now if you have a noisy phone line which is audible when using the phone, and you can confirm that when your phone is connected directly to the Test Socket, then you need to Report a Phone line fault, not a broadband one. There is not a lot of point in complaining about the broadband until the phone line is fixed.
Now which Modem/Router model is it you have, that this "friendly BT engineer" says is the issue and how old is it? Also, I take it Plusnet have sent you a 2704N modem/router? Apart from your connection issues, are you finding the 2704N acceptable from your internal network point of view - ie. all you devices are connecting ok?
Edit: depending on the answers to those, it might be best if you started a thread of your own on this board and we'll guide your through with some information and steps you can take to get to the bottom of your issue so you can get Plusnet to get Openreach to resolve your probable line problem.
Madmac
Grafter
Posts: 28
Registered: ‎04-02-2015

Re: Poor performance every evening - upstream problem?

soutter- sorry to hear you are having problems as well, suggest that you open a case and/or start a new thread on the forum to track your issues.
Mine is not about noise, the router or anything to do with the line quality itself. I have no noise, a new router which is totally in my control with a 1.3km line with really  good connection statistics.
The issue for me is entirely congestion or poor routing somewhere.
Madmac
Grafter
Posts: 28
Registered: ‎04-02-2015

Re: Poor performance every evening - upstream problem?

Ticket 110029964 is now open with the faults team, complete with a full fault description and link to TBBQM showing the problem.
Hopefully we get somewhere this time, or I am outta here leaving a formal complaint to both PN and OFCOM in my wake.
Anotherone
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Posts: 19,107
Thanks: 457
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Registered: ‎31-08-2007

Re: Poor performance every evening - upstream problem?

Fingers crossed, that someone more knowledgable looks at this, with a poke from CRT if needed!
Townman
Superuser
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Posts: 22,922
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Registered: ‎22-08-2007

Re: Poor performance every evening - upstream problem?

@AO,
Souter has grumbled before on other's threads (https://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,129842.msg1130105.html#msg1130105) but has not taken up previous offers of help.  One hopes he'll accept your generous offer of assistance on this occasion.  In spite of what his friendly BT engineer says, it does rather look like a line problem.
@Soutter,
I've had no end of engineers tell me there's no fault on the line .... only to have another engineer visit and say "there's a clear fault on the line ... cannot understand why others did not find it".  For example I've known a line to check out OK when tested from the premises, but to fail when tested from the exchange / cabinet - and the other way around.  PlusNET testing a line and detecting no fault, but a visiting engineer testing the line from the premises and finding a fault is not dissimilar.
Could have been the weather on the day of the visit may be!

Superusers are not staff, but they do have a direct line of communication into the business in order to raise issues, concerns and feedback from the community.

Anotherone
Champion
Posts: 19,107
Thanks: 457
Fixes: 21
Registered: ‎31-08-2007

Re: Poor performance every evening - upstream problem?

@Townman
Yes I read the previous, wasn't expecting any response from soutter Wink
Madmac
Grafter
Posts: 28
Registered: ‎04-02-2015

Re: Poor performance every evening - upstream problem?

Short update for you all.
Having raised the  fault ticket it seems to have been picked up by someone quite knowledgable and they have had a chat with BT Wholesale.
They have confirmed (as I have been saying) that there is no problem with the connection between the exchange and my premises, and that the connection is stable. This has given the line an 'A' quality rating.
The VLAN link I am on seems to be not the cause of the problem but is rated amber as it is nearing capacity, however what is not clear is whether the measurement is average or peak bandwidth.
The have asked me to run another test and send the details which I have done whilst there has been the slowdown.
So the ball is firmly back in PN's court and hoping that I will get some more sensible answers next week.
Townman
Superuser
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Re: Poor performance every evening - upstream problem?

An "a rating"?
Exactly what did they say?  Line condition in respect of xDSL performance is usually stated as ILQ - indicative line quality.  For that "A" would be Amber - room for improvement.

Superusers are not staff, but they do have a direct line of communication into the business in order to raise issues, concerns and feedback from the community.

Madmac
Grafter
Posts: 28
Registered: ‎04-02-2015

Re: Poor performance every evening - upstream problem?

Yes, you are right A-Amber went back an clarified and it was mis-communicated to me.
That said though I did some digging...
Extract from my xDSL status check
Maximum Stable Rate (KBPS): 18176 Fault Threshold Rate (KBPS): 14541
Mean Time Between Retrains (Seconds): 82581 Mean Time Between Errors Upstream (Seconds): 7507
Indicative Line Quality: A Mean Time Between Errors Downstream (Seconds): 671
Guidelines though should have this as a Green line given the below; (http://community.plus.net/library/broadband/broadband-faults-guide-our-testing/)
Amber – The line will fall into an ILQ of Amber if your MTBE falls between 420 -10 and/or your MTBR is between 16800-8640. As the line, in this condition isn’t all that bad, no negative or positive changes will be made to the line. If the MTBE/MTBR reduces/improves further, the ILQ will change accordingly.
Green – The line must be of a very good standard for the ILQ to be green. The MTBE should be MTBE > 420 with an MTBR > 16800. If the ILQ is green, positive changes will be made to the DLM, such as, reducing the SNR and SNR Target to get more out of your line. Any line banding (that isn’t chronic) will be removed to give you the full speeds your line is capable of achieving.
Townman
Superuser
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Re: Poor performance every evening - upstream problem?

Thank you for the clarification and researched information.
There seems to be some inconsistency here: the tests report Amber, but the stats suggest Green, whilst the synch speed is 10% below expectations for the line's attenuation.
It's all a bit odd and the absence of CRT comment is not helpful.

Superusers are not staff, but they do have a direct line of communication into the business in order to raise issues, concerns and feedback from the community.