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Poor VoIP / Slow Speeds - Stats Check

Melancholie
Grafter
Posts: 451
Thanks: 1
Registered: ‎23-07-2013

Poor VoIP / Slow Speeds - Stats Check

So, service was unstable when installed, upstream SNR all over the place. Line card on BTW MSAN has been reset.
I'm thinking the stats below aren't good and am a bit mystified why DLM has left me on a 3dB fastpath?
VoIP is gack, speeds are gack, this has sucked since install and continues to suck. Not happy.
Ping statistics for 195.66.232.15:
    Packets: Sent = 100, Received = 97, Lost = 3 (3% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
    Minimum = 15ms, Maximum = 54ms, Average = 30ms
Uptime: 2 days, 5:09:22   
DSL Type: ITU-T G.992.3   
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 664 / 2.323   
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [MB/GB]: 553,23 / 1,99   
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12,6 / 0,0   
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 39,1 / 66,5   
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 5,1 / 2,8   
System Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / ----   
Chipset Vendor ID (Local/Remote): BDCM / IFTN   
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 9 / 0   
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 4.218 / 0   
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0   
Loss of Link (Remote): -   
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 15.210 / 2   
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 0   
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 747 / 350.910   
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 804 / 49.564
31 REPLIES
Melancholie
Grafter
Posts: 451
Thanks: 1
Registered: ‎23-07-2013

Re: Poor VoIP / Slow Speeds - Stats Check

Checking again:
Ping statistics for 195.66.232.15:
    Packets: Sent = 100, Received = 96, Lost = 4 (4% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
    Minimum = 16ms, Maximum = 105ms, Average = 32ms

Having to use mobile as VoIP unusable.
Plusnet Alumni (retired) orbrey
Plusnet Alumni (retired)
Posts: 10,540
Registered: ‎18-07-2007

Re: Poor VoIP / Slow Speeds - Stats Check

Hi there,
Can't see many drops showing on your line: <img src="http://community.plus.net/visualradius/generated/image13764919853457.png"/>
I have however upped your profile on our side to 2000 to match that on BTs (previously this was set to 1200, sorry about that).
Please let us know if that's not improved things and we'll see what we can do.
Melancholie
Grafter
Posts: 451
Thanks: 1
Registered: ‎23-07-2013

Re: Poor VoIP / Slow Speeds - Stats Check

Hi Matt,
Despite the SNR margin dropping to 0 or negative a fair bit the line does somehow hold on. I see brief blips as it becomes unviable then comes back after a ton of bitswapping.


As you can also see the line has been up for only 18 minutes and is already racking up errors...
Uptime: 0 days, 0:18:06   
DSL Type: ITU-T G.992.3 
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 683 / 2.151 
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 39,0 / 68,5   
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 5,1 / 1,9   
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 28 / 1.904   
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 32 / 248
The line is too lossy on the current 3dB fastpath profile. Please could this be adjusted to 6dB interleaved to catch some of these errors?
Another weird thing is the SNR margin on the Sky line barely moved at all, it stayed within a 0.3dB range.
If these adjustments don't resolve the VoIP / responsiveness issues this'll have to go. I do work from home quite a bit and right now the service is unusable for that.
Melancholie
Grafter
Posts: 451
Thanks: 1
Registered: ‎23-07-2013

Re: Poor VoIP / Slow Speeds - Stats Check

This shows it nicely - note on the single download, green line, where it completely barfed part way through and stopped downloading, and also the 'saw tooth' pattern of packet loss causing the transfer to be inconsistent.
http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/results.html?id=13764993938883379226
Ping statistics for 212.159.9.2:
    Packets: Sent = 100, Received = 97, Lost = 3 (3% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
    Minimum = 22ms, Maximum = 48ms, Average = 25ms
Name:    portal.plus.net
Address:  212.159.9.2
Incidentally it's dropped twice in the past 30 minutes. Must've seen me talking about it.
Plusnet Alumni (retired) orbrey
Plusnet Alumni (retired)
Posts: 10,540
Registered: ‎18-07-2007

Re: Poor VoIP / Slow Speeds - Stats Check

Agreed re the SNR/Interleaving values. I've requested an SNR reset which should up the downstream SNR target to 6dB and also turn on interleaving, fingers crossed that it helps with things.
Melancholie
Grafter
Posts: 451
Thanks: 1
Registered: ‎23-07-2013

Re: Poor VoIP / Slow Speeds - Stats Check

Sadly not.
Uptime: 0 days, 0:04:25   
DSL Type: ITU-T G.992.3   
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 663 / 2.103   
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 39,0 / 66,5   
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 5,9 / 6,0   
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 9 / 242 
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 446   
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 99

Ping statistics for 212.159.9.2:
    Packets: Sent = 100, Received = 97, Lost = 3 (3% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
    Minimum = 37ms, Maximum = 276ms, Average = 48ms
http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/results.html?id=137650176603017832907
Ticket #73090677 is open for this. Completely bemused that the service was as stable as you like via Sky, it was up for weeks at a time and there was no packet loss. Move to BT Wholesale and it's a complete mess from the moment we weren't connected properly and the phone line had no dialtone for over 10 hours.
Melancholie
Grafter
Posts: 451
Thanks: 1
Registered: ‎23-07-2013

Re: Poor VoIP / Slow Speeds - Stats Check

Just updating this; packet loss persists, FEC is proving ineffective.
Uptime: 0 days, 13:54:59   
DSL Type: ITU-T G.992.3   
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 663 / 2.103   
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 39,0 / 66,5   
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 5,8 / 6,0   
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 18.408 / 3   
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 3.507 / 32.610   
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 202 / 87.910   
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 639 / 21.189
An SFI is going to be arranged. Seems a waste of time as, unless the line mysteriously degraded out in the field on the exact same day that Openreach were messing with it in the exchange, the issue is somewhere between the MDF and BT Wholesale but it is what it is.
I am extremely concerned about just why the SFI is being sent out. The fault ticket seems to indicate it's for an instability issue. This isn't the case, the line is holding on, it's about the poor quality of the line.
I guess I'll run through the SFI process and let that go as far as it does and if the packet loss still persists I'll carry on my original plan and have the line moved from Plusnet to an LLU provider to ensure the line gets rejumpered properly and, more importantly, to remove BT Wholesale from the equation. I'll go through it not least because it strengthens my case to demand the year of line rental in advance back and end the contract on grounds I've gone through the troubleshooting process in full and it's failed to provide a service fit for purpose.
I avoided BT Wholesale like the plague for the best part of 10 years and now I know why. LLU operators don't have to dance to their tune but can go straight to Openreach which speeds up fault resolution massively. I have had an issue upon migration before, it was fixed the same day. Compare that to this experience which is not a single day of good service since moving to this ISP, a fault on upstream apparently resolved after a line card reset which only had the effect of showing up a different fault on the downstream and it's tricky to justify staying here.
I'd far rather pay more and actually get something that I can use and, indeed, I quite literally have to have something I can use.
Melancholie
Grafter
Posts: 451
Thanks: 1
Registered: ‎23-07-2013

Re: Poor VoIP / Slow Speeds - Stats Check

This'll be why VoIP isn't working...
Upstream Loss: 0.0% (=0/500)
Upstream Order: 100.0% (=249500/249500)
Upstream Jitter: ave=0.59ms, max=36.868ms
Downstream Loss: 11.2% (=56/500)
Downstream Order: 94.18677354709419% (=234996/249500)
Downstream Jitter: ave=78.82ms, max=154.32882882882882ms

Melancholie
Grafter
Posts: 451
Thanks: 1
Registered: ‎23-07-2013

Re: Poor VoIP / Slow Speeds - Stats Check

One more showing it's not just VoIP that has issues due to this.
A test download was started at 17 seconds in, and was continued throughout. There was no other traffic on the line. As seen there the download completely stalls for a while.
Plusnet Alumni (retired) orbrey
Plusnet Alumni (retired)
Posts: 10,540
Registered: ‎18-07-2007

Re: Poor VoIP / Slow Speeds - Stats Check

Hi there, just booked the engineer in for you for tomorrow morning. I'd recommend explaining what's going on to him - this is raised as a speed/performance issue rather than anything to do with the line dropping, so he should be expecting to investigate a performance fault rather than dropping connection.
Hope it gets things sorted for you.
Melancholie
Grafter
Posts: 451
Thanks: 1
Registered: ‎23-07-2013

Re: Poor VoIP / Slow Speeds - Stats Check

This is in no way personal to you Mr Taylor.
Your supplier's incompetence is breathtaking.
As expected the Openreach engineer informed that the line itself is in great shape right back to the MDF, as expected given that this household has been featured on national TV over the quality of broadband provision, has been the centre of a ward-wide superfast broadband campaign, and has had 2 REIN engineers base themselves in it to diagnose a fault.
However he called BT Wholesale and they informed him that the difference between the stability on Sky and Plusnet is apparently because when we were on Sky LLU, and note I said LLU, we were on a 20CN 'up to' 8Mb service, whereas we're now on a 21CN 'up to' 24Mb service.
However it's all fine now. BT Wholesale have fixed the SNR margin at 6dB which means it can't drop any lower and all the issues should apparently now be fixed.
Of course there are a few issues with this.
1) Sky is ADSL2+ / G.992.5
2) We're on ADSL2 / G.992.3, which you'd expect to be more stable.
3) There is absolutely no way that BT Wholesale can fix downstream SNR margin.
So this wonderful, fixed SNR margin, super reliable service has in the time I was writing this forum post already dropped and packet loss has returned.
Ping statistics for 212.159.9.2:
    Packets: Sent = 100, Received = 96, Lost = 4 (4% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
    Minimum = 37ms, Maximum = 483ms, Average = 144ms
Strangely enough the SNR margin is also still unstable. There I was thinking that BT Wholesale could defy the laws of physics in one direction and control the signal quality my modem reported in the other.
Any other ideas or ready to cut losses, refund the line rental paid in advance, and provide a MAC so that we can take the lesson as learned and return to our obsessive avoidance of BT Wholesale?
Thank you.
Incidentally in the time it's taken me to write this post the line actually dropped twice, as I'm sure will be reflected by your RADIUS logs.
Plusnet Alumni (retired) orbrey
Plusnet Alumni (retired)
Posts: 10,540
Registered: ‎18-07-2007

Re: Poor VoIP / Slow Speeds - Stats Check

Well from our point of view the fault needs to be pursued until either it's fixed or our suppliers advise nothing further can be done. The fault has been cleared since the engineer visit, I've gone back to reject it for further investigation but it's stating that if I do that another appointment will be offered. Given what happened this morning, I'm not happy with that - I'm about to echat with our suppliers and ask that they take it back for more investigation rather than to send another engineer, especially given that this engineer now appears to have caused it to develop into a dropping connection issue.
I'll let you know what's happening as soon as I get off the eChat.
Plusnet Alumni (retired) orbrey
Plusnet Alumni (retired)
Posts: 10,540
Registered: ‎18-07-2007

Re: Poor VoIP / Slow Speeds - Stats Check

And, just finished the eChat - they've agreed to take the fault back and investigate further given that the erroring and drops have increased since the engineer left. Hopefully we'll hear something later this afternoon, but if not there should be something over the weekend.
Melancholie
Grafter
Posts: 451
Thanks: 1
Registered: ‎23-07-2013

Re: Poor VoIP / Slow Speeds - Stats Check

Thank you Mr Taylor.