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PlusNet is NOW faster than TalkTalk for me (was PlusNet Slower than TalkTalk )

DDNewCust
Grafter
Posts: 61
Registered: 22-12-2014

PlusNet is NOW faster than TalkTalk for me (was PlusNet Slower than TalkTalk )

Hi Guys
I have just moved from TalkTalk to PlusNet (8/11/2012) and have ended up with a slower connection after the 10 day retune completed. TalkTalK was 9-11Mbs and PlusNet is 6-7Mbs.  Embarrassed
All equipment being the same here. I kept the DG834 router I have had for years as every TalkTalk router was rubbish and the DG834 is set-up for a IP address allocated to MAC system, something I couldn't do with the PlusNet TG582n router as it's locked out!
Having a electronic engineering background I have been doing some reading and monitoring already. I have noticed a few things .....
I did some REIN investigations with a AM radio and found a LED lamp PSU blasting away in the RF, so that has now been confined to the bin (22/12/2014). This strangely had little effect on my TalkTalk connection but stopped the PlusNet one connecting with a good download rate (1/2 of TalkTalk's 5Mbs).
I also moved a few cables to separate them from the phone line input to the router, again his had little effect on my TalkTalk connection. But has improved the PlusNet a little 1db DL Noise Margin.  I did a PPP disconnect wait 1 minute, power down and 20 minute off wait before re-powering.  After this my connection is quite stable but still lower than the one I had with TalkTalk. Tests indicate about 6.5Mbs.
The BT force test indicated that it was limited by them to 8Mbs. Hmmm
Now I think the major issue (LED  Lamp PSU) has been resolved and was hoping the line would go up.  I then get a Email from PlusNet to say that my line had an Estimated line speed: 11Mbps (which was the same as TalkTalk) and is now at Current line speed: 8Mbps. Sad This was probably kicked off my the BT tests I have been running.  Cry
My Downstream NoiseMargin indicated by the DG834 under TalkTalk was 9db, with PlusNet it is now 12db and now stable after the LED  Lamp PSU binning.
When I was with TalkTalk about 2 years ago (I think) they added a doubling rate addition on to the service. This made my line go from about 8Mbs to 11Mbs. From the reading I have done I suspect this was 20CN to 21CN. Which is available at my exchange Bluebell Hill.
Now I am not sure whether PlusNet are using the 21CN or 20CN on my line or whether I am just mistaken on this one. But the DL speeds match those of TalkTalk without the rate addition.
Basically I would like the same connection rate I had with TalkTalk using the same kit.
Any advice would be appreciated, as at the moment the swap from TalkTalk to PlusNet seems to have been a bad idea as far as downstream rate is concerned.
Dave
Adie:green topic changed at op request
156 REPLIES
Community Veteran
Posts: 26,529
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Registered: 10-04-2007

Re: PlusNet Slower than TalkTalk for me :(

Run the BT speedtest and then the further diagnostics. If it reports up and down IP profile you are on 21CN, if it reports the downstream profile only you are on 20CN.
jelv (a.k.a Spoon Whittler)
   Why I have left Plusnet (warning: long post!)   
Broadband: Andrews & Arnold Home::1 (FTTC 80/20)
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Superuser
Superuser
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Registered: 22-08-2007

Re: PlusNet Slower than TalkTalk for me :(

Hi Dave,
Welcome to the forums.
Talk Talk and PlusNet use different equipment in the exchange.  PlusNet like most ISPs use BT's WBC products.  In some locations Talk Talk offer ADSL2 services where as BT only provides ADSL(1).  One hopes that this does not apply here.
Jelv's suggestion will indicate which WBC product you are connected on.  This link - http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/adslchecker.php - will tell you what WBC services are available from your exchange.  In some locations there is only spare capacity on 20CN so sadly even where 21CN is available, users can get stuck with 20CN which has a maximum synch of 8128kbps.
When we know which service you are on we can advise what next.
For the point of clarity, you can cause the same IP to be always assigned to a particular device on the TG582n - see http://192.168.1.254/cgi/b/devs/ov/?be=0&l0=4&l1=0
Click on  device - click configure - if the device has a DHCP allocated IP address - click "Always use the same IP address:".
Also see http://npr.me.uk for the guru's guide to telnet tweaking of the TG582n.  Note firmware version 10.2.2.B is thought to have a much improved xDSL stability.  Wish I had your speed!
Kevin
DDNewCust
Grafter
Posts: 61
Registered: 22-12-2014

Re: PlusNet Slower than TalkTalk for me :(

Quote from: jelv
Run the BT speedtest and then the further diagnostics. If it reports up and down IP profile you are on 21CN, if it reports the downstream profile only you are on 20CN.

Thank you for your reply. I have run the BT speedtest and then the further diagnostics.
This looks better than the earlier one I ran before disconnecting the LED Lamp PSU. I didn't record that one.
For some reason I can't cut and paste.  So I have attached a picture it has a upstream on there.
But indicates I am limited to 8Mbs. Sad
Dave
Superuser
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Re: PlusNet Slower than TalkTalk for me :(

David,
This confirms that you are on a 21CN service.
Can you please gather the information requested in the speed issues thread at the top of this forum.
Is the phone line noisy?  Dial 17070 option 2.
Is the router plugged directly into the master socket?
Are there any extensions?
Kevin
DDNewCust
Grafter
Posts: 61
Registered: 22-12-2014

Re: PlusNet Slower than TalkTalk for me :(

Townman (Kevin)
Thanks for your links I had run the Kitz one, good site that. 21CN is available.
Keeping the DG834 for a while will come back to those TG582n links if I have too, Telnet CLI looks a bit deeper than I want to go ATM.
I have run RouterStats, a program I haven't play with for 5 years and have some plots after learning how the Telnet bit of the program works .... again.  Embarrassed
Looks like some margin un-used to me. See attached.
Dave
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Re: PlusNet Slower than TalkTalk for me :(

@DDNewCust
What is the modulation setting on the Netgear? It may be set to G.DMT or G.992.1 and you'll need to change it to ADSL2+, G.992.5 to see the full speed, or alternately just change the setting to Auto.
If you can find the router status page and post that on here it should help pinpoint where the problem lies.
DDNewCust
Grafter
Posts: 61
Registered: 22-12-2014

Re: PlusNet Slower than TalkTalk for me :(

Kevin
Thanks for the 21CN heads up.
I think this is the information required + the report in an earlier post.
ADSL Link         Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 9357 kbps 1089 kbps
Line Attenuation         29 db         8.5 db
Noise Margin         12 db         5 db
Line noisy?  Dial 17070 option 2. Did that not sure whether it was going to end so just hung up. A little his in the background.
Is the router plugged directly into the master socket?  Embarrassed    No I am running off an extension, not the best idea but would need to reroute lots of network cables or go full wireless.
At the moment I am trying to get back to TalkTalk Speeds, I may get a bit more by rewiring the house but not yet.
I could move the router to see what the gain would be, but can't do that for a few weeks.
Are there any extensions? Yes, all lines have filters.
From what I can see I need some sort of re-tuning.
Dave
DDNewCust
Grafter
Posts: 61
Registered: 22-12-2014

Re: PlusNet Slower than TalkTalk for me :(

Quote from: Jaggies
@DDNewCust
What is the modulation setting on the Netgear? It may be set to G.DMT or G.992.1 and you'll need to change it to ADSL2+, G.992.5 to see the full speed, or alternately just change the setting to Auto.
If you can find the router status page and post that on here it should help pinpoint where the problem lies.

ADSL2+ I believe I don't see the modulation settings in my router set-up. There may be a clue for you in some of the pictures and text in my earlier posts.
Time for bed. BBFN
Dave
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Re: PlusNet Slower than TalkTalk for me :(

Quote from: DDNewCust
ADSL Link         Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 9357 kbps 1089 kbps
Line Attenuation         29 db         8.5 db
Noise Margin         12 db         5 db
That (especially the upload speed) implies ADSL2, probably ADSL2+
Potential line speed is around 16mbps, so if you got significantly less than that with TT as you said above that you did, you probably have a wiring or line problem.
The 12dB noise margin confirms a problem.
Have you removed the bell wire from ALL your wiring?
Are the extensions daisy-chained or in a star arrangement?
DDNewCust
Grafter
Posts: 61
Registered: 22-12-2014

Re: PlusNet Slower than TalkTalk for me :(

HPsauce
Thanks for your response.
Bell wire dropped off the back of master socket in 2009, the performance increased back then (two suppliers ago). Wink
Extensions are in star formation and haven't changed from 2009 when I had TalkTalk and before that Virgin.
In all TalkTalk have been the best performance, Virgin connections dropped but were around 11Mbps DL, TalkTalk 8 to 9Mbs DL less dropouts.
My line download speed has gone down again see picture 27thDec 2014 and is currently around 5Mbs in DL testing Sad
The other picture is the performance from 23rd Dec 2014. Which was slightly better.
Noise margin has gone up on the to 16-18db, as expected with the reduced rates.
My frustration has gone up and it looks like I am not the only one.
From my prospective the only change was TalKTalK to PlusNet at the exchange and then the reduction in performance started after a few days. I guess they use cheaper / poorer routers at the exchange as that is the only thing that initially change on my line. Of course it could be poor software in the exchange router, mine hasn't changed.
Now I find myself looking at my end for things that are may be wrong. Being a electronic engineer of many years I know when fault finding you look at what has changed recently, initially anyway, not the bits that haven't.
I am open minded and have done some investigation my end.  I have been REIN hunting and the like, there may be local SHINE I can't see or miss that the exchange end can't cope with, like TalkTalk's did.
Not a happy PlusNet customer having been offered the same performance as TalkTalk and expected it.
Community Veteran
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Re: PlusNet Slower than TalkTalk for me :(

Something is wrong with the line or wiring. It may be getting worse and could have started any time.
The attenuation ration u/s to d/s is very odd, it's normally about 1:2.
I'd start (based on my own experience) by eliminating the star wiring from the equation, e.g. a test from the test socket.
Speed would probably not change immediately, but the stats would tell you something useful.
If I was at your house troubleshooting, I'd rip out the start wiring immediately then work out how to meet your requirements in a more ADSL-compliant way.  Wink
Community Veteran
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Re: PlusNet Slower than TalkTalk for me :(

I suspect the upstream attenuation has been incorrectly displayed, and half the actual value has been shown in the router web interface. I think there was only one version of the non-wireless DG834 hardware, which is now rather old, and is based on the AR7 chipset which doesn't have a particularly good reputation for stability on 21CN ADSL2+ lines.
Community Veteran
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Re: PlusNet Slower than TalkTalk for me :(

Quote from: DDNewCust
Bell wire dropped off the back of master socket in 2009

What about at other sockets? It should be electrically isolated everywhere, otherwise it can act as an aerial and feed interference in via anything plugged in at an extension where it is connected.
Quote from: DDNewCust
I kept the DG834 router I have had for years
There are loads of DG834 models with various suffixes/versions. Which EXACT model is it and what firmware version?
Community Veteran
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Re: PlusNet Slower than TalkTalk for me :(

There were four versions of the plain wired only DG834 and they didn't all have the same chipset - one had a broadcom chipset.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netgear_DG834_%28series%29#DG834.28G.29
jelv (a.k.a Spoon Whittler)
   Why I have left Plusnet (warning: long post!)   
Broadband: Andrews & Arnold Home::1 (FTTC 80/20)
Line rental: Pulse 8 Home Line Rental (£13/month)
Mobile: iD mobile (£4/month)