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Please may I have an explanation of how the SNR affects broadband delivery?

Anotherone
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Re: Please may I have an explanation of how the SNR affects broadband delivery?

I take it then that your modem/router is plugged into the top socket of the Mk2 vDSL plate using the original as supplied short lead.
It's also worth bearing in mind that your TG585v8 is getting a bit long in the tooth now.  Do you have an alternative modem/router that you may be  able to try if need be?
firstalpha
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Re: Please may I have an explanation of how the SNR affects broadband delivery?

Quote from: Anotherone
I take it then that your modem/router is plugged into the top socket of the Mk2 vDSL plate using the original as supplied short lead.
It's also worth bearing in mind that your TG585v8 is getting a bit long in the tooth now.  Do you have an alternative modem/router that you may be  able to try if need be?
The router is right next to the main BT socket and yes, the original lead is plugged into the top socket... and I have a Siemens Gigaset AL180 plugged directly into the phone socket... this has a powered basestation which is situated about 5 feet from the BT Socket... I do not currently have another, newer, router...
Just now, my DSL stats are as follows:
DSL Connection
Link Information
Uptime: 0 days, 15:38:42
DSL Type: G.992.5 annex A
Maximum Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 17,962 / 1,912
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 444 / 1,144
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [MB/GB]: 469.63 / 1.23
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12.5 / 15.5
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 37.5 / 64.5
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 15.0 / 6.5
Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / TSTC
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 5 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Link (Remote): 0
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 65,536 / 0
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 867 / 2,518,953
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 22,261 / 1,673
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 27 / 1,355
Anotherone
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Re: Please may I have an explanation of how the SNR affects broadband delivery?

Good morning. All noted. At least no drops in connection since yesterday. Keep checking the quiet line test periodically, especially if you see the SNRM go particularly low.
Quote from: Richard
You are welcome to post the results from my ongoing support ticket..

Let's see whether the detailed Copper Line Test results reveal anything interesting.
Do you pay your line rental to Plusnet?
Have you noticed any problems at all (no matter how small) with incoming or outgoing phone calls?
plusnettony
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Re: Please may I have an explanation of how the SNR affects broadband delivery?

Quote from: Anotherone
I can hazard a guess that the sync loss was Tony doing what's called an "intrusive test" which is needed to fully check out the copper. So when he posts the results, I'll give you a bit of info on what they mean.
In the meantime can I please draw your attention to the questions at the end of my reply #10. This is extremely important in relation to eliminating potential contributions to the large SNRM variability.

Spot on. It will happen in a moment too.
Tony
If this post resolved your issue please click the 'This fixed my problem' button
 Tony T
 Plusnet Help Team
plusnettony
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Re: Please may I have an explanation of how the SNR affects broadband delivery?

Hi,
I'm sorry about this. I tested the circuit yesterday but didn't save the results (foolishly). The results we are looking for aren't easy to find on the account either. Therefore, please excuse my causing your connection to drop now.
Attached are the tests for you....

Tony
If this post resolved your issue please click the 'This fixed my problem' button
 Tony T
 Plusnet Help Team
firstalpha
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Re: Please may I have an explanation of how the SNR affects broadband delivery?

Spot on. It will happen in a moment too.
Aha... this explains why I lost connection at 12:21pm, or thereabouts...
DSL stats as follows:
DSL Connection
Link Information
Uptime: 0 days, 0:02:01
DSL Type: G.992.5 annex A
Maximum Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 17,897 / 2,292
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 444 / 1,148
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [kB/MB]: 547.00 / 1.09
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12.5 / 16.5
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 37.0 / 64.5
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 15.0 / 6.5
Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / TSTC
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 65,538 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Link (Remote): 0
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 66,441 / 0
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 2,159
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 472 / 1
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 9 / NA
firstalpha
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Re: Please may I have an explanation of how the SNR affects broadband delivery?

Quote from: plusnettony
Attached are the tests for you....
Thank you Tony...
Anotherone
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Re: Please may I have an explanation of how the SNR affects broadband delivery?

Yes thanks Tony.
Hmm, not the best of lines I have to say BUT nothing specific there that would point any fingers in any direction that would explain the SNRM variability.
Being a long line it will have high capacitance, but that seems somewhat higher than one would hope for a decent quality copper line of that length although it seems well balanced.
The Celerity figure also ties in with the high capacitance value, and is definitely poor.
Perhaps you have a line which maybe has long lengths of aluminium cable whose insulation is starting to break down (damp in it) and is heading towards end of life. It may just be a joint somewhere that water has got into. You may have old standard drop-wire. Unfortunately Broadband is a best efforts service on your existing telephone line. And until something starts failing tests or there's an obvious fault with the phone (or broadband) service in can be near impossible to get anything done, this often has to be instigated by your line rental provider - which is why
Quote from: Anotherone
Do you pay your line rental to Plusnet?
Have you noticed any problems at all (no matter how small) with incoming or outgoing phone calls?

I'm also going to ask some further questions about your line. Is your incoming line overhead?  I'm guessing it may be,  do you know (can you see) - whether much of the line towards the exchange is overhead, does it appear to go underground anywhere?
Do you know if the actual wire into your house from the pole (if overhead) has been replaced at anytime say within the last 10 years or so?
firstalpha
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Re: Please may I have an explanation of how the SNR affects broadband delivery?

Quote from: Anotherone
I'm also going to ask some further questions about your line. Is your incoming line overhead?  I'm guessing it may be,  do you know (can you see) - whether much of the line towards the exchange is overhead, does it appear to go underground anywhere?
Do you know if the actual wire into your house from the pole (if overhead) has been replaced at anytime say within the last 10 years or so?

I transferred my line to Plusnet about a year ago when I upgraded to unlimited Broadband because I was beginning to exceed my monthly bandwidth allocation... it was during November last year that my service was changed from the original fixed 0.5MB service to one with a variable download speed of 0.5 - 2.5... this had the effect of increasing the download speed to about 1.47Mbps... this was great until last April when it was reduced to 0.98 Mbps... 
There are 6 polls which support my line out to the main road... I've lived here for over 30years and the line to the house has never been changed to my knowledge... not sure how it gets to the Cabinet...
The main BT Cabinet is about 2.5 miles away and the Cabinet is about a mile from the exchange... rarely have we had problems with the line...
DSL stats as follows:
DSL Connection
Link Information
Uptime: 0 days, 4:51:47
DSL Type: G.992.5 annex A
Maximum Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 17,897 / 1,972
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 444 / 1,148
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [MB/MB]: 265.74 / 835.49
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12.5 / 16.5
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 37.0 / 64.5
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 14.5 / 4.0
Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / TSTC
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 65,538 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Link (Remote): 0
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 66,441 / 0
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 550 / 1,997,579
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 11,851 / 553
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 10 / NA
Anotherone
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Re: Please may I have an explanation of how the SNR affects broadband delivery?

Hmm (doing a lot of that today). I see the SNRM has dropped a bit, as would be expected as darkness approached.
I have known Openreach come along and replace overhead lines and drop-wires without the knowledge of the user, so let's see what we can discover to help get this in perspective.
Where the overhead line reaches your house can you see a box that looks similar to this where the cable from the pole may join another cable that enters the house? You may see a similar box on the pole at the main road, unless there are several of you getting overhead lines form that pole in which case it may be a bigger box.
The cable that enters the house from outside - can you have a look at it and describe it.
Is it a flat figure of 8 cross-section (like old light flex in cross-section) and is it quite thin and grey, or thick and black.
Or is it oval/flat shaped and black about 5mm across, or is it round and black (about 5.3mm in diameter)?
firstalpha
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Re: Please may I have an explanation of how the SNR affects broadband delivery?

Quote from: Anotherone
The cable that enters the house from outside - can you have a look at it and describe it.
Is it a flat figure of 8 cross-section (like old light flex in cross-section) and is it quite thin and grey, or thick and black.

It is quite a heavy cable and it looks very much like the image you've provided...
Photo 002.jpg is the box on the pole outside the house...
Photo 014.jpg is the pole on the edge of the road... photo taken from the road... the relevant cable comes in at the top, from the left and then leaves lower down towards the left in this photo...
Photo 039.jpg shows where the Electricity Board is replacing the poles at the moment... once the electricity wires have been transferred, BT will then transfer the telephone wires... the photo is from the field side of the roadside hedgerow...
As far as I know, this is the setup that delivered 1.47Mbps for 6 mths, November2013-April 2014...
I did not initiate the apparent router reboot at 6:14am... DSL stats as follows:
DSL Connection
Link Information
Uptime: 0 days, 4:36:01
DSL Type: G.992.5 annex A
Maximum Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 18,028 / 1,292
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 444 / 1,144
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [MB/MB]: 195.18 / 358.94
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12.5 / 16.0
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 37.5 / 64.5
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 13.5 / 2.0
Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / TSTC
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 65,538 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Link (Remote): 0
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 16 / 0
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 322 / 10,361,542
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 36,230 / 10,780
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 22 / 3,148
Anotherone
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Re: Please may I have an explanation of how the SNR affects broadband delivery?

Good morning - have you run a Quiet Line Test recently, that SNRM in the stats just posted is low!
Thanks for the pics, quite helpful, but the pole near the house doesn't give a clear enough picture of the cable going to the house itself.
Any chance of a close-up of the cable on the side of the house - ideally somewhere near where it enters the house.
Bearing in mind that you say poles are being replaced, I have a cunning plan at the back of my mind.
firstalpha
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Re: Please may I have an explanation of how the SNR affects broadband delivery?

Quote from: Anotherone
Good morning - have you run a Quiet Line Test recently, that SNRM in the stats just posted is low!
I do frequently call the Quiet Line Test... and always the same result... no sounds...
A couple of months ago I cancelled the 2nd BT exchange line which I had had at this property for probably the last 25 years... and transferred the phone number to Vonage... the line is still connected so I was able to do a Quiet Line Test on that... same result...
Broadband has always been on the older of the two lines and I think the older one is the thin grey line whereas the now cancelled line is round and black... see appended photo...
There was a BT Openreach van in the village today and the engineer was there to check the telegraph poles for any signs of rotting... it transpired in conversation that sometimes an Openreach engineer will come straight out and tell a property owner that their telephone line will not support broadband at all and there is no point in even trying to connect... when you hear something like that, you're just grateful to have a half reasonable service... as I mentioned before, I was on a fixed 0.5 Mbps for many years...
I was hoping to keep continuously connected for several days and just try starting a new PPPoA session when connectivity becomes difficult... as I explained before, the router appears to reboot without any initiation from me... is this when the synch to the exchange fails?
I was able to watch a youtube video today in spite of the SNR varying between 2, 2.5 and 3... 
I will be asking my neighbour about his connectivity this evening... we don't want any mishaps when the lines are moved to the new poles...
Thank you for your continued attention...
Townman
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Re: Please may I have an explanation of how the SNR affects broadband delivery?

When do the lines get moved?  Could be the answer to all of your ills, as I would expect all of the drop wires to be replaced as well.  That should get rid of the old grey drop wire.
If the drops are not replaces and you are around when they do the pole swaps, I'd ask if they could switch your line to the newer drop wire.
Kevin

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firstalpha
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Re: Please may I have an explanation of how the SNR affects broadband delivery?

Quote from: Townman
When do the lines get moved?  Could be the answer to all of your ills, as I would expect all of the drop wires to be replaced as well.  That should get rid of the old grey drop wire.

Hey Kevin... you appear to imply that I would be potentially better off with newer drop wire... I guess I ought to have tried this before cancelling the newer line...  Angry