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Phone or BB fault

Community Veteran
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Registered: 01-08-2007

Phone or BB fault

Up until this week my BB has been uber stable, with up-times in the weeks.  This week I have been seeing random re-syncs, and interestingly the upstream sometimes is very low, in the 200-300 range, with a 6dB margin.  If I resync it comes back to the upper 1000s, with a 6dB margin.  Today, in effect its all gone t*** up. Router refuses to maintain sync with a decent upstream, with varying margins. Currently it appears to have stabalised with a 12dB margin, and a sync of 404, but its had sync of 404 and less with SNRs of 6 and below....  All during this the downstream is absolutely fine (thank god), in the range of 8000-8500 with a 3dB margin.  I had the interleaving removed from the upstream in Feb, and up until now all has been fine. It was removed due to the 888kbps upload sync bug, on some DLMs.  I am ADSL2+.   I have rang the CSC, and raised a Phone fault, as I can hear crackles on the line on a quiet line test.  Was this the right thing to do, as the CSC agent ran a line test and could find nothing wrong.  I have tried the test socket, but still the same, so gone back to the faceplate again.
Should I ask for interleaving to be reapplied to the upstream......
Interestingly my router has also started to refuse to dish out IPs via DHCP....  I have left the router off for a while as when I picked it up it was very hot underneath. Its a Netgear rangemax DG834PN, and I have had it around 3-4years.  Coincidence or part of the issues maybeHuh?  Had to rejig the network with static IPs at the min.....
Any advice would be appreciated.
EDIT....  Interestingly, LAN connection seem unaffected by the DHCP issue....  The sky box downloads stuff fine, and its connected via ethernet to the router....
78 REPLIES
Community Veteran
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Re: Phone or BB fault

Since you asked:
Dial 17070 then choose option 2 for the quiet line test.  If the line isn't quiet then it's a phone fault.
Community Veteran
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Re: Phone or BB fault

If it's not noise on the line unplug any extensions and their filters, or try an alternate filter and modem/router and possibly go to the test socket to check you haven't suddenly got an internal wiring problem if you have extensions.
I suggest you use this method if you need to swap anything, or reboot/resync -
Do a Disconnect of your PPP Internet session with the ISP - you need to login to the modem/router interface and look for the Disconnect button to click on. On the Thomson modem/routers you will typically find it in the box marked Internet as shown here.
Now wait a few minutes, power down. Then wait 10 minutes (during this time swap any filters, modem/router, connect to test socket, etc. - it doesn't matter if you take longer than 10 minutes) and then power up again (You may need to login to the modem/router and click on Connect to re-establish the PPP Internet session). Check the stats immediately (The Noise Margin [SNRM] shown is usually the current Target Noise Margin).
I usually recommend you do this no more than 5 times in an hour, and then leave it alone for the rest of the day.  Remember the reason for this procedure is to help prevent the exchange DLM from thinking you have a dropping connection (or a worse one than you may have).
Community Veteran
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Re: Phone or BB fault

Thanks Reed.  
I had done that, but having the linetest come back fine has confused me a bit, I assumed with noise, there would be a definite fault found.  There is still noise, even in the test socket.  Since then, things have deteriorated further, 10mins ago lost PPP, and could not regain, even though i still had sync.  Had to reboot the router to regain a PPP session to PlusNet. I have put a note onto the ticket.  Suspect all the probs have stemmed from the dreadful weather we are having up north at the min.....
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Re: Phone or BB fault

Quote
I have rang the CSC, and raised a Phone fault, as I can hear crackles on the line on a quiet line test.  Was this the right thing to do

Yes.
I think this detail might have been missed by others.  Can you repeat the quiet line test a few times?  Is the noise intermittent?  Could it be weather related?

There's a couple of replies since I started typing this but I still think definitely should be reported as a phone line fault.
Call me 'w23'
At any given moment in the universe many things happen. Coincidence is a matter of how close these events are in space, time and relationship.
Opinions expressed in forum posts are those of the poster, others may have different views.
Community Veteran
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Re: Phone or BB fault

@anotherone...
Thanks.  have no extensions, and only one corded phone..  Line comes in through the window, to a junction box, and from there to the NTE5. From the XTE faceplate, direct to router via a screened Rj11 cable. I had a horrid fault 3years , that took ages to deal with (symptoms are quite similar now). The line from the Pole to NTE5 is new from then.
Line is not noisy all the time on the quiet line test it seems to be intermittent 'static' for want of a better word....
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Re: Phone or BB fault

Well I think I have sussed the DHCP issue.  From the logs, it appears that both my phone and laptop were assigned the same IP.  The laptop seriously took offence to this, and refused to access the internet, but phone was OK, then phone has a hissy fit as well.  I have set both to statics at the min, as I am concerned that the router dished out the same IPs to 2 devices, and the phone even though connected via a static IP, no longer shows up in the list of connected devices, but the laptop does.  Both static now.
Mods..... If you feel this should be split to a separate topic please feel free to do so, as it appears these are 2 separate issues.....
Community Veteran
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Re: Phone or BB fault

I don't see any point in splitting it, it's your thread. Sorry I did miss the sentence you'd phoned CSC and reported a phone fault. Yes, intermittent problems like this are a pain in the neck. Next time the line is nice and crackly, ring again, get them to confirm that they can hear the noise and log that and the fact that it's intermittent (you can add that to the ticket yourself), but do ring when it's nice and crackly because they can test again and add a note to the fault that they've heard it and it's intermittent. That way you are covered if an OpenReach engineer is unable the locate the fault. It really is a case of persisting in these situations.
Community Veteran
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Re: Phone or BB fault

Quote from: penfold
... having the linetest come back fine has confused me a bit, I assumed with noise, there would be a definite fault found.  There is still noise, even in the test socket.  

No, those automated line tests are rubbish; don't seem to notice noise on the line at all.  Do what Anotherone suggests and demonstrate the noise to a real live CSC operative.
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Re: Phone or BB fault

Thanks...  Things have stabilised a little today, had a spurious resync event this morning, but since then things have been stable, although upstream syncs are nowhere near normal levels.
Current Stats are posted below.  Seems to be the DLM has hoiked up my upstream margin for stability.  I have also sneaked up the downstream margin a little with DMT, for a little more stability, trading off speed. This shows how unstable my connection was last night...
Sat, 2012-07-14 21:25:41 - LCP down.
Sat, 2012-07-14 21:25:49 - Initialize LCP.
Sat, 2012-07-14 21:25:49 - LCP is allowed to come up.
Sat, 2012-07-14 21:25:53 - Administrator login successful - IP:192.168.0.70
Sat, 2012-07-14 21:26:49 - Initialize LCP.
Sat, 2012-07-14 21:26:49 - LCP is allowed to come up.
Sat, 2012-07-14 21:27:14 - LCP down.
Sat, 2012-07-14 21:27:25 - Initialize LCP.
Sat, 2012-07-14 21:27:25 - LCP is allowed to come up.
Sat, 2012-07-14 21:27:26 - LCP down.
Sat, 2012-07-14 21:27:35 - Initialize LCP.
Sat, 2012-07-14 21:27:35 - LCP is allowed to come up.
Sat, 2012-07-14 21:27:58 - LCP down.
Sat, 2012-07-14 21:28:05 - Initialize LCP.
Sat, 2012-07-14 21:28:05 - LCP is allowed to come up.
Sat, 2012-07-14 21:29:06 - Initialize LCP.
Sat, 2012-07-14 21:29:06 - LCP is allowed to come up.
Sat, 2012-07-14 21:29:06 - LCP down.
Sat, 2012-07-14 21:29:13 - Initialize LCP.
Sat, 2012-07-14 21:29:13 - LCP is allowed to come up.
Sat, 2012-07-14 21:30:13 - Initialize LCP.
Sat, 2012-07-14 21:30:13 - LCP is allowed to come up.
Sat, 2012-07-14 21:30:40 - CHAP authentication success
Sat, 2012-07-14 21:38:28 - Administrator login successful - IP:192.168.0.70
Sat, 2012-07-14 22:15:29 - LCP down.
Sat, 2012-07-14 22:15:37 - Initialize LCP.
Sat, 2012-07-14 22:15:37 - LCP is allowed to come up.
Sat, 2012-07-14 22:15:39 - CHAP authentication success
Sat, 2012-07-14 23:16:41 - Administrator login successful - IP:192.168.0.80
Sat, 2012-07-14 23:57:08 - LCP down.
Sat, 2012-07-14 23:57:15 - Initialize LCP.
Sat, 2012-07-14 23:57:15 - LCP is allowed to come up.
Sat, 2012-07-14 23:57:17 - CHAP authentication success
Sun, 2012-07-15 05:12:46 - LCP down.
Sun, 2012-07-15 05:12:53 - Initialize LCP.
Sun, 2012-07-15 05:12:53 - LCP is allowed to come up.
Sun, 2012-07-15 05:13:01 - CHAP authentication success
Sun, 2012-07-15 06:21:51 - LCP down.
Sun, 2012-07-15 06:21:58 - Initialize LCP.
Sun, 2012-07-15 06:21:58 - LCP is allowed to come up.
Sun, 2012-07-15 06:22:58 - Initialize LCP.
Sun, 2012-07-15 06:22:58 - LCP is allowed to come up.
Sun, 2012-07-15 06:23:58 - Initialize LCP.
Sun, 2012-07-15 06:23:58 - LCP is allowed to come up.
Sun, 2012-07-15 06:24:58 - Initialize LCP.
Sun, 2012-07-15 06:24:59 - LCP is allowed to come up.
Sun, 2012-07-15 06:25:59 - Initialize LCP.
Sun, 2012-07-15 06:25:59 - LCP is allowed to come up.
Sun, 2012-07-15 06:26:59 - Initialize LCP.
Sun, 2012-07-15 06:26:59 - LCP is allowed to come up.
Sun, 2012-07-15 06:27:59 - Initialize LCP.
Sun, 2012-07-15 06:27:59 - LCP is allowed to come up.
Sun, 2012-07-15 06:28:59 - Initialize LCP.
Sun, 2012-07-15 06:28:59 - LCP is allowed to come up.
Sun, 2012-07-15 06:29:59 - Initialize LCP.
Sun, 2012-07-15 06:29:59 - LCP is allowed to come up.
Sun, 2012-07-15 06:30:19 - CHAP authentication success
Sun, 2012-07-15 08:13:30 - Administrator login successful - IP:192.168.0.80
Sun, 2012-07-15 11:50:08 - Administrator login successful - IP:192.168.0.80
Sun, 2012-07-15 12:59:59 - Administrator login successful - IP:192.168.0.80
Sun, 2012-07-15 17:15:42 - Administrator login successful - IP:192.168.0.80
Sun, 2012-07-15 20:29:07 - Administrator login successful - IP:192.168.0.70
As said, at one point i could not even get a PPP session authenticated to plusnet.  Can think why a line issue would affect authentication....
Anyhow, can the DCT advise if interleaving should be put back on the upstream??  All noise now appears to have gone from the line typically, as the weather has been nice all day.  Should I still persue an engineer vist in the vain hope they might find something, my experience with BTO has not been good, my last fault took 7 engineers to sort out....  Personally I feel I would be wasting my time, but interested in opinions on getting an engineer to check the line out, maybe even remake any joints, even thought it now appears fine.  I am going to leave the router well alone, and see how things progress.
Still confused as to why the router started doling out duplicated IPs to wireless equipment....  still using statics on wireless, until all this is sorted out, but the Sky box and bluray player on DHCP, via wired ethernet.
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Re: Phone or BB fault

BTW, the router still refuses to recognise the Phone on the network. According to the attached devices list, it does not exist, but it surfs the net fine.....  Laptop, and Sky etc all registered.
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Re: Phone or BB fault

A good OpenReach engineer with his Hawk Tester should be able to track down the fault. Have any Plusnet tests shown a fault yet? Perhaps the errors were extremely high at the time you couldn't get authentication, I assume you rang in an asked for another line test.
As regards Interleaving, well it may give you a more stable connection for the time being, but remember it's only masking the fault.
Plusnet Alumni (retired) chrispurvey
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Re: Phone or BB fault

Hi Penfold,
I have run test's on your line and everything is showing ok at the moment, your line does appear to be more stable. Interleaving is an option if the disconnections do continue, since the noise has now gone from your line, the best option is to monitor your connection over the next 48-72 hours, leaving your router turned on.
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Re: Phone or BB fault

Quote from: Anotherone
A good OpenReach engineer with his Hawk Tester should be able to track down the fault.

Hmmm, I have experience with engineers, and finding a good one is quite a feat....
Didnt get another line test last night, but this morning, at 07:10 Sync went, and when i went to ring the CSC, The phone was completely dead..... This lasted till 07:20.  Not sure what happened. Rang the CSC, who had no idea, and now assume the fault is fixed.  Dont get me wrong, the guys I spoke to, where genuinely willing to help, but thought I had a capped upload, when its been uncapped for months....  I have now had 3 line tests today, and according to SWMBO, its been chucking it down where I live today.  All tests came back fine.  When I was on the phone to the CSC, upload sync was 391, and after the line test over 1000, and has bee stable for the last 9hrs.  Maybe the line tests have cleared a dodgy connection, but I am sure it will happen again....
Quote from: chrispurvey
your line does appear to be more stable. Interleaving is an option if the disconnections do continue, since the noise has now gone from your line, the best option is to monitor your connection over the next 48-72 hours, leaving your router turned on.

I agree chris, seems pointless getting an engineer out at the moment, and I will monitor the phone noise, and router stats, for the next couple of ays and see what happens.  Can you shed any light on the complete loss of dial tone??  I feel this does point to a fairly serious issue.  Upstream sync when line came back was over 1000, but as we have seen this dropped to the high 300s, but now back up again.
Current syncs below.
Community Veteran
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Registered: 31-08-2007

Re: Phone or BB fault

If a phone fault had been passed to OpenReach which seems likely considering when you first spoke to CSC, then an engineer might have found something at the exchange or cab/dp this morning (hence the dead line). So fingers crossed.