Packet Loss/Poor Gaming.

[#1]

Quote from: Kelly

Your ping graph still looks awful.  Do you have a different router to try, just to rule it out?

In the interests of ruling things out I decided to remove my ADSL Nation faceplate and connect my old Netgear router. This resulted in a noise margin of minus 51

I couldn't open any webpages so I have now reconnected the Asus N55U.

[#2]

Hi, I'm still having issues. I have now tried three different routers. The latest router is the Technicolor TG582n, stats are...

Quote

Uptime: 0 days, 1:45:43 DSL Type: ITU-T G.992.5 Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 1.279 / 20.223 Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [MB/GB]: 132,99 / 1,99 Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12,5 / 0,0 Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 11,9 / 21,0 SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 6,2 / 1,3 System Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / ---- Chipset Vendor ID (Local/Remote): BDCM / IFTN Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0 Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 0 / 0 Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0 Loss of Link (Remote): - Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 5.057 / 0 FEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 0 CRC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 47.859 HEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 194.435

My usual router (the Asus) had a negative figure for SNR, the Netgear also had a negative figure (-51,) the Technicolor is showing 1.3. I notice the stats on this router show a figure for output power, which is at 0.0. I have no idea if that means anything, but it stood out, as does the low/negative SNR figures across all three routers.
I wish I hadn't deleted my old TBB graph (20CN) as I believe the issue with packet loss started just after the exchange was upgraded to 21CN. At around the same time of the upgrade we had severe weather and several power cuts. I wonder whether there is a problem with the exchange or if the overhead lines were damaged in the storms. I have no idea really, but what I do know is that I feel I have tried everything possible in my home, ie three routers, two different faceplates, all new cables/filters, connected to the test socket with no other electrical equipment connected nearby.
I had a poor gaming experience when on 20CN, I was hoping the upgrade was going to improve things, but things now seem worse than ever - not only poor gaming, but packet loss too. I'm going to reconnect the Asus as WIFI on the Technicolor is dire. (All tests via pathping for packet loss were conducted using a wired connection.)
Hopefully you can help me with this,
Thanks in advance,
Wo0x.

[#3]

I just tested your line and the target SNR is showing as 3dB and the actual was showing as 0dB at the point I tested it.
My suspicion is that the problem is down to 1 of 2 things. Either that SNR is too low or there's a line condition causing the problem. I want to reset the SNR to 9dB in both directions which will result in speed decreasing a little but try and lock that in so it doesn't change. You had a reset a few days ago which either didn't work or the systems have put you back down to 3dB again.
Unfortunately you can only do 1 reset in a certain time (think it's 10 days but need to check) so I need to wait a few days before I can try it again but I'm hopeful that could fix it. In the meantime one thing you could try, is the Netgear router on this list:
http://www.kitz.co.uk/routers/DMTv8.htm
If it is you could try setting the target SNR to 9dB and see what happens.

[#4]

Quote from: dave

you could try setting the target SNR to 9dB and see what happens.

Hi, Dave. My Asus router allows me to adjust the SNR under 'stability adjustment.' SNR was showing as zero. I have used the stability tool to increase this by 9 but it now shows as 11.3. Sync has dropped by 8MB which isn't really a 'little' decrease.
BT IP profile = 10.56. Plusnet line speed = 16.7. Could you please nudge the profile on Plusnet's side so I can monitor packet loss.

Cheers,
Wo0x.

[#5]

Just updated the profile on our side to 10500 for you, hope the SNR adjustment helps.

[#6]

Quote from: Matt

hope the SNR adjustment helps.

Hi, I'm still seeing the same issues.
I've been doing some reading and have noticed a few things. One is 'output power,' I have seen the following on the Kitz site

Quote

With adsl2+ most lines will be running to their maximum capability, and a figure of around 18-19 dBm is the norm.

Mine is listed as 0.0. Is this indicative of a problem?
I was also reading about errors and how they can reduce bandwidth and cause instability, but I've not had any issues with bandwidth or disconnections prior to adjusting the SNR (even when it was a negative figure I didn't lose connection,) which brings me to my last point, I read that an increase in the SNR of 3dB is likely to reduce speed by around 800Kbps, but after increasing my SNR by 9dB, I lost over 7Mbps.
Cheers,
Wo0x.

[#7]

Hi, I disabled the 'stability adjustment' yesterday as gaming was even worse, either it made it worse or it was coincidence. I was still experiencing packet loss, it seemed pointless to me to have a 7MB reduction in bandwidth if it wasn't helping the packet loss issue. This morning at 10:30 it appears interleaving was put on my line as the latency has increased from 10 to 40ms.
My TBB graph is now showing even more red than previously.
There also seems to be huge increase in the number of errors reported in my router's stats. This is the first time I've seen more than a couple thousand in this period of up-time (7 hours.)

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Modulation : ADSL2+ Annex Mode : Annex A/L Line State : up Lan Tx : 7638316 Lan Rx : 5425905 ADSL Tx : 52005 ADSL Rx : 67580946 CRC Down : 0 CRC Up : 10751 FEC Down : 0 FEC Up : 53375 HEC Down : 35052 HEC Up : 0 SNR Up : 6.3 SNR Down : 0.3 Line Attenuation Up : 13.1 Line Attenuation Down : 20.0 Data Rate Up : 1116 Data Rate Down : 20830

However, these numbers fluctuate each time the stats page refreshes, below is a few seconds after the first quote.

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Modulation : ADSL2+ Annex Mode : Annex A/L Line State : up Lan Tx : 7655273 Lan Rx : 5437797 ADSL Tx : 63572 ADSL Rx : 8366734 CRC Down : 0 CRC Up : 11007 FEC Down : 0 FEC Up : 15238 HEC Down : 42027 HEC Up : 0 SNR Up : 6.3 SNR Down : 0.0 Line Attenuation Up : 13.1 Line Attenuation Down : 20.0 Data Rate Up : 1116 Data Rate Down : 20830

And another few seconds later

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Modulation : ADSL2+ Annex Mode : Annex A/L Line State : up Lan Tx : 7655728 Lan Rx : 5438129 ADSL Tx : 63852 ADSL Rx : 839277 CRC Down : 0 CRC Up : 11082 FEC Down : 0 FEC Up : 50898 HEC Down : 44570 HEC Up : 0 SNR Up : 6.3 SNR Down : 0.0 Line Attenuation Up : 13.1 Line Attenuation Down : 20.0 Data Rate Up : 1116 Data Rate Down : 20830

Another few seconds...

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Modulation : ADSL2+ Annex Mode : Annex A/L Line State : up Lan Tx : 7656181 Lan Rx : 5438511 ADSL Tx : 64206 ADSL Rx : 8427529 CRC Down : 0 CRC Up : 11112 FEC Down : 0 FEC Up : 48392 HEC Down : 45291 HEC Up : 0 SNR Up : 6.4 SNR Down : 0.2 Line Attenuation Up : 13.1 Line Attenuation Down : 20.0 Data Rate Up : 1116 Data Rate Down : 20830

Seems odd to me, but I'm sure someone will inform me if it's normal.
pingtest.net results in the past have always shown grade A with 0-1ms jitter, it's now showing grade B and anything up to 40ms of jitter, though when re-running the test it will sometimes show Grade A and 1ms jitter.

Cheers,
Wo0x.

[#8]

Continuing on from the reply above....
Router re-sync'd at 06:47 on Sunday, again the latency seems to have risen on the TBB graph and has doubled when testing via command prompt. SNR is finally looking more 'normal' at around 6dB, it hasn't dropped into negative figures.
However, gaming seems even worse, which I didn't think was possible.    I'm still seeing packet loss and pingtest.net is still showing 25-45ms jitter and grade B whereas in the past it has always been grade A with 0-1ms jitter, as mentioned in the previous reply..
Error count still fluctuates.

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Modulation : ADSL2+ Annex Mode : Annex A/L Line State : up Lan Tx : 20470994 Lan Rx : 14224612 ADSL Tx : 3794928 ADSL Rx : 59658598 CRC Down : 0 CRC Up : 66 FEC Down : 0 FEC Up : 65452 HEC Down : 618 HEC Up : 044.88 SNR Up : 6.5 SNR Down : 6.0 Line Attenuation Up : 13.0 Line Attenuation Down : 20.0 Data Rate Up : 1120 Data Rate Down : 18478

Moments later.

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Modulation : ADSL2+ Annex Mode : Annex A/L Line State : up Lan Tx : 20506908 Lan Rx : 14245386 ADSL Tx : 3815314 ADSL Rx : 60010830 CRC Down : 0 CRC Up : 66 FEC Down : 0 FEC Up : 325 HEC Down : 618 HEC Up : 0 SNR Up : 6.5 SNR Down : 6.0 Line Attenuation Up : 13.0 Line Attenuation Down : 20.0 Data Rate Up : 1120 Data Rate Down : 18478

Cheers,
Wo0x.

[#9]

Seems like you still have a fault somewhere.  I'll get someone to check your ticket today

[#10]

Thanks for that, Kelly.
The engineer has just left, he couldn't find any fault with my line and has performed the 'lift and shift' as requested. He mentioned that someone else in the village has recently complained of poor gaming, but no fault found on the line.  I've just been looking through my TBB graphs and there's definitely a pattern - packet loss is far worse between 4pm and midnight whether I'm using the connection or not.
I had a disconnection on the 18th where the latency increased significantly.

This returned to 'normal' on the 23rd.

I just had a disconnection whilst trying to post this. 
Cheers,
Wo0x.

[#11]

Just received this as a reply on my ticket...

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Dear****** Thank you for getting back to us. I have tested your line again I can safely say there is no fault with this broadband service. The line is stable and speed is fantastic, this is will have to classed as resolved.

I wasn't complaining of speed or disconnections. Packet loss is still present so how is this resolved? If all that mattered was speed and stability why wasn't this 'resolved' on the 8th of this month? I've been very patient, but feel this last message is taking the proverbial...
Is packet loss acceptable? Do I just have to accept that gaming will always be poor? Is the packet loss significant enough to be the reason for the poor gaming?

There are many questions, how is this resolved?
Cheers,
Wo0x.

[#12]

Hi, probably best to reiterate the above in the fault ticket and send it back to our team? That'll keep things open, unfortunately these sorts of faults do take a long time to find and get sorted out.

[#13]

Thanks, Matt. Will do.

[#14]

Push it back to us.  They obviously are looking at those graphs.

[#15]

Quote from: Kelly

They obviously are looking at those graphs.

Seems to be getting worse if anything.

Inconsistent speed test results too, anywhere between 6 and 12Mbps, whereas until tonight this has been consistently 15Mbps.