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PLUS net network routing broken!!

DaveS00
Newbie
Posts: 6
Registered: 15-05-2009

PLUS net network routing broken!!

Hi
I have an open ticket regards surfing speeds - which appeared as an intermittent fault until today ...
something MUST be wrong with routing on the plusnet network .... today the symptoms are:-
plusnet portal - fine but a bit sluggish
google images search - works ok, but a bit sluggish
http://technet.microsoft.com ; - 404 error page not wound
http://www.microsoft.com ;     -  just hangs and will no doubt timeout
cnet news pages regards the recent google outage - 404 error
the fact i can goole fine but places like microsoft, cnet are unreachable has to be a plusnet network issue ... come on guys - i have been a happy customer for many years but this is now almost a week of dismal service ... and i will have to consider going elsewhere - my next door neighbours internet, using a different ISP is fine, no noise on my phone line etc
I have tried from different pc's etc and its all the same
my router info:- Netgear DG834GT ...
Firmware Version  V1.02.19

ADSL Port
MAC Address 00:0F:B5:C0:BD:CF
IP Address 80.229.250.155
Network Type PPPoA
IP Subnet Mask 255.255.255.255
Gateway IP Address 195.166.128.80
Domain Name Server 212.159.6.9
212.159.6.10

LAN Port
MAC Address 00:0F:B5:C0:BD:CE
IP Address 192.168.2.1
DHCP On
IP Subnet Mask 255.255.255.0

Modem
ADSL Firmware Version A2pB022c.d20e
Modem Status Connected
DownStream Connection Speed 1312 kbps
UpStream Connection Speed 448 kbps
VPI 0
VCI 38

C:\Program Files\Support Tools>tracert www.microsoft.com
Tracing route to lb1.www.ms.akadns.net [207.46.193.254]
over a maximum of 30 hops:
  1  856 ms  519 ms  172 ms  192.168.2.1
  2  358 ms    41 ms  1544 ms  lo0-plusnet.thn-ag3.plus.net [195.166.128.80]
  3  286 ms  108 ms    41 ms  vl303.thn-gw2.plus.net [84.92.3.178]
  4  252 ms  190 ms    38 ms  ldn-b4-link.telia.net [213.248.84.197]
  5    37 ms    99 ms    98 ms  ldn-bb2-link.telia.net [80.91.251.14]
  6  1247 ms  502 ms  118 ms  ash-bb1-link.telia.net [80.91.251.207]
  7  118 ms  741 ms  196 ms  microsoft-ic-119510-ash-bb1.c.telia.net [213.248
.89.18]
  8  247 ms  248 ms  128 ms  209.240.199.99
  9  229 ms  1493 ms  760 ms  ge-6-1-0-0.bl2-64c-1b.ntwk.msn.net [207.46.43.27
]
10  250 ms  269 ms  970 ms  ge-3-1-0-0.co2-64c-1a.ntwk.msn.net [207.46.35.14
9]
11  631 ms  178 ms  179 ms  ge-0-1-0-0.wst-64cb-1a.ntwk.msn.net [207.46.43.1
95]
12  409 ms  791 ms  761 ms  ge-0-2-0-0.tuk-64cb-1b.ntwk.msn.net [207.46.47.7
0]
13  631 ms  180 ms  191 ms  207.46.47.68
14  244 ms  185 ms  178 ms  ten1-4.tuk-76c-1a.ntwk.msn.net [207.46.46.11]
15  176 ms  181 ms  281 ms  po16.tuk-65ns-mcs-1b.ntwk.msn.net [207.46.35.142
]
16    *        *        *    Request timed out.
17    *        *        *    Request timed out.
18  ^C
C:\Program Files\Support Tools>
the time from pc to my router is a little high - but my home network is good enough to stream movies across it .... so that can't be the cause ...
rebooted the router last night ...

System Up Time 13:57:28
Port Status TxPkts RxPkts Collisions Tx B/s Rx B/s Up Time
WAN PPPoA 320221 233196 0 5041 2078 13:56:54
LAN 10M/100M 73530 125076 0 690 331 13:57:23
WLAN 11M/54M/108M 262247 372865 0 1698 5090 13:57:17
ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 1312 kbps 448 kbps
Line Attenuation 63.5 db 31.5 db
Noise Margin 6.5 db 10.0 db

thoughts, other than 2 tin cans a a very long piece of string ...
Dave
14 REPLIES
James
Grafter
Posts: 21,036
Registered: 04-04-2007

Re: PLUS net network routing broken!!

Morning Dave.
Quote
1  856 ms  519 ms  172 ms  192.168.2.1

That's almost a second from your PC to your Router.  I'd suggest that there's either a software issue on your PC or (possibly more likely) an issue with your network card, network cable or router itself.
paulby
Grafter
Posts: 1,619
Registered: 26-07-2007

Re: PLUS net network routing broken!!

You could also try setting your MTU to 1430 (this has been known to cure problems like these, particularly with Microsoft sites).
To do this have a look here for Xp or here for Vista.
Aslo set the MTU in your router to 1500 (if it's settable).  The router MTU should always be the same as, or more than, the MTU on the PC(s).
If it's an Xp machine you're using I'd set RWIN to 166800, as suggested on the linked page.  You can't set RWIN on Vista (nor do you need to!).
Edit: typos
DaveS00
Newbie
Posts: 6
Registered: 15-05-2009

Re: PLUS net network routing broken!!

Thanks for the above - time to plug a pc directly into the router with a nice short patch lead! - but why would i be able to get to bbc, google, cnn  but not cnet, microsoft, yahoo ... ?
paulby
Grafter
Posts: 1,619
Registered: 26-07-2007

Re: PLUS net network routing broken!!

@DaveS00
Quote
but would would i be able to get to bbc, google, cnn  but not cnet, microsoft, yahoo ... ?

I assume you're talking about tweaking the MTU?
If you adjust the MTU downwards (it's probaly at the default of 1500 if you've never adjusted it) you'll not break any sites that already work OK (you may make them load a bit faster though, as it often improves your throughput) but will likely fix those that are broken just now! 
(Also, don't keep lowering the MTU ever downwards - 1430 is about as low as you want (or need) to go.)
Community Veteran
Posts: 26,718
Thanks: 931
Fixes: 10
Registered: 10-04-2007

Re: PLUS net network routing broken!!

Quote from: DaveS00
time to plug a pc directly into the router with a nice short patch lead!

Does that mean you are usually wireless?
jelv (a.k.a Spoon Whittler)
   Why I have left Plusnet (warning: long post!)   
Broadband: Andrews & Arnold Home::1 (FTTC 80/20)
Line rental: Pulse 8 Home Line Rental (£13/month)
Mobile: iD mobile (£4/month)
James
Grafter
Posts: 21,036
Registered: 04-04-2007

Re: PLUS net network routing broken!!

You can actually get wireless "black spots" if your router is too close to your PC.
DaveS00
Newbie
Posts: 6
Registered: 15-05-2009

Re: PLUS net network routing broken!!

i have a laptop with Vista - wireless
I have 2 XP desktop which used netgear hd - ethernet of mains adapters - so one of these could be problematical ... hence the short patch lead and need to do the trace from vista - but 95% of the issues have been vista/wireless - the trace info in this post is one of the XP boxes - but not the media server. This XP box is rarely used .. but symptoms are very similar to Vista laptop
Community Veteran
Posts: 26,718
Thanks: 931
Fixes: 10
Registered: 10-04-2007

Re: PLUS net network routing broken!!

Quote from: DaveS00
  1   856 ms   519 ms   172 ms  192.168.2.1
the time from pc to my router is a little high

Just like Everest is a little high!
My daughters PC is at the diagonally opposite corner of our house from the wireless access point (bedroom upstairs to office downstairs), in addition the office is in an extension so there's what was an external cavity wall in between. In short the signal is carp and the connection speed constantly varies between nothing and about 11mbps maximum - typical around 2-4mbps.
Here's her ping to the router:
>ping 192.168.0.1
Pinging 192.168.0.1 with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 192.168.0.1: bytes=32 time=13ms TTL=255
Reply from 192.168.0.1: bytes=32 time=4ms TTL=255
Reply from 192.168.0.1: bytes=32 time=6ms TTL=255
Reply from 192.168.0.1: bytes=32 time=6ms TTL=255
Ping statistics for 192.168.0.1:
    Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
    Minimum = 4ms, Maximum =  13ms, Average =  7ms

Your ping isn't bad, it's excruciatingly, appallingly awful!
jelv (a.k.a Spoon Whittler)
   Why I have left Plusnet (warning: long post!)   
Broadband: Andrews & Arnold Home::1 (FTTC 80/20)
Line rental: Pulse 8 Home Line Rental (£13/month)
Mobile: iD mobile (£4/month)
DaveS00
Newbie
Posts: 6
Registered: 15-05-2009

Re: PLUS net network routing broken!!

ok - looks like that PCP has a dodgy network card - thanks for resolving that ... but still no joy to a variety of sites, microsoft, yahoo, ....
a different XP pc .... with ok ping times to router ...

C:\Documents and Settings\Dave>ping -t 192.168.2.1
Pinging 192.168.2.1 with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 192.168.2.1: bytes=32 time=117ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.2.1: bytes=32 time=3ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.2.1: bytes=32 time=5ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.2.1: bytes=32 time=6ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.2.1: bytes=32 time=96ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.2.1: bytes=32 time=7ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.2.1: bytes=32 time=86ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.2.1: bytes=32 time=7ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.2.1: bytes=32 time=6ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.2.1: bytes=32 time=87ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.2.1: bytes=32 time=88ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.2.1: bytes=32 time=5ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.2.1: bytes=32 time=5ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.2.1: bytes=32 time=6ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.2.1: bytes=32 time=6ms TTL=64
Ping statistics for 192.168.2.1:
    Packets: Sent = 15, Received = 15, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
    Minimum = 3ms, Maximum = 117ms, Average = 35ms
Control-C
^C
trace to microsoft site - remebering this all worked fine a couple of weeks back and this pc has absolutely no change s- not even AV updates (don't ask!)  ....

C:\Documents and Settings\Dave>tracert www.microsoft.com
Tracing route to lb1.www.ms.akadns.net [207.46.19.254]
over a maximum of 30 hops:
  1    6 ms    4 ms    5 ms  192.168.2.1
  2    35 ms    63 ms    45 ms  lo0-plusnet.thn-ag3.plus.net [195.166.128.80]
  3    37 ms    32 ms    36 ms  vl303.thn-gw2.plus.net [84.92.3.178]
  4    42 ms  140 ms    45 ms  ldn-b4-link.telia.net [213.248.84.197]
  5    37 ms    33 ms    41 ms  ldn-bb1-link.telia.net [80.91.249.131]
  6  121 ms  109 ms  112 ms  ash-bb1-link.telia.net [213.248.65.98]
  7    *        *        *    Request timed out.
  8    *        *        *    Request timed out.
  9  ^C
C:\Documents and Settings\Dave>tracert www.microsoft.com
Tracing route to lb1.www.ms.akadns.net [207.46.19.254]
over a maximum of 30 hops:
  1    7 ms    4 ms    4 ms  192.168.2.1
  2    36 ms    33 ms    36 ms  lo0-plusnet.thn-ag3.plus.net [195.166.128.80]
  3    37 ms    36 ms    36 ms  vl303.thn-gw2.plus.net [84.92.3.178]
  4    40 ms    36 ms    41 ms  ldn-b4-link.telia.net [213.248.84.197]
  5    31 ms    36 ms    36 ms  ldn-bb2-link.telia.net [80.91.254.21]
  6  107 ms  108 ms  109 ms  ash-bb1-link.telia.net [213.248.65.98]
  7    *        *        *    Request timed out.
  8    *        *        *    Request timed out.
  9  ^C

bbc ... which works fine ...
C:\Documents and Settings\Dave>tracert www.bbc.co.uk
Tracing route to www.bbc.net.uk [212.58.253.67]
over a maximum of 30 hops:
  1    8 ms    73 ms    4 ms  192.168.2.1
  2  134 ms    31 ms    46 ms  lo0-plusnet.thn-ag3.plus.net [195.166.128.80]
  3    36 ms    32 ms  134 ms  vl303.thn-gw1.plus.net [84.92.3.177]
  4  221 ms  198 ms  204 ms  te2-3.thn-gw2.plus.net [212.159.1.58]
  5    49 ms    69 ms  162 ms  rt0.thdo.bbc.co.uk [212.58.239.25]
  6  241 ms    99 ms    36 ms  212.58.238.133
  7    95 ms  106 ms    41 ms  te12-1.hsw0.cwwtf.bbc.co.uk [212.58.239.222]
  8    *        *        *    Request timed out.
  9    *        *        *    Request timed out.
10  ^C
C:\Documents and Settings\Dave>
yahoo ... which fails ... in the web browser

C:\Documents and Settings\Dave>tracert www.yahoo.com
Tracing route to www-real.wa1.b.yahoo.com [87.248.113.14]
over a maximum of 30 hops:
  1    11 ms    4 ms    7 ms  192.168.2.1
  2    40 ms  197 ms  215 ms  lo0-plusnet.thn-ag3.plus.net [195.166.128.80]
  3  216 ms  191 ms    41 ms  vl303.thn-gw2.plus.net [84.92.3.178]
  4    43 ms    37 ms    38 ms  vl23.pte-gw2.plus.net [212.159.4.28]
  5    41 ms    41 ms    31 ms  ge-1-1-0.pat1.the.yahoo.com [195.66.224.129]
  6  130 ms  100 ms    41 ms  so-0-1-0.msr1.ird.yahoo.com [66.196.65.33]
  7    46 ms    44 ms    47 ms  gi-1-5.bas-b1.ird.yahoo.com [87.248.101.23]
  8  141 ms    45 ms  118 ms  f1.us.www.vip.ird.yahoo.com [87.248.113.14]
Trace complete.
C:\Documents and Settings\Dave>

ideas please ...

paulby
Grafter
Posts: 1,619
Registered: 26-07-2007

Re: PLUS net network routing broken!!

Have you tried adjusting your MTU as per my post above? You can set things back to where they were if it doesn't work.
It's worth a try.  As I said before it often cures this sort of problem as it will reduce the packet size to avoid fragmentation.  The fault isn't with your set up but with "broken" routers on the way to the sites in question which aren't allowing MTU path discovery to work properly.  Lowering the MTU will allow the packets through these routers.
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,101
Thanks: 443
Fixes: 21
Registered: 31-08-2007

Re: PLUS net network routing broken!!

When doing those tracert's do bbc without the www. I'm not sure, but I thought somewhere I recall microsift don't like being pinged or tracert. They don't today anyway!
DaveS00
Newbie
Posts: 6
Registered: 15-05-2009

Re: PLUS net network routing broken!!

yes - support ticket told me that today - changed mtu on router - and yahoo and microsoft are working - although things are a little sluggish still. I don't udnerstand why things change like that but hey - i have something.
I can also now run www.mybroabandspeed - which just failed to load for the last 2 weeks - so things are better
The issues with the network to my router are resolved, so decent ping times.
I know just have chronic ftp speeds ...
I am downloading from http://masseffect.bioware.com/galacticcodex/bringdownthesky_pc.html and get appalling speeds - 6 kb/s, (as measured in firefox), with it "hiccupping" and showing 0 kb/s at times.
Its not the source webserver at fault, as a friend is getting a download speed of 200 kb/s from the same server, pulling down the same file, they live in a town about 15 miles away (so a different phone exchange, and different isp)
any ideas?
James
Grafter
Posts: 21,036
Registered: 04-04-2007

Re: PLUS net network routing broken!!

Given your highly volatile pings to your router, I'm still fairly certain that there is something between your computer and your router that is at fault.
DaveS00
Newbie
Posts: 6
Registered: 15-05-2009

Re: PLUS net network routing broken!!

that is now resolved ...
C:\Users\Dave>ping -t 192.168.2.1
Pinging 192.168.2.1 with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 192.168.2.1: bytes=32 time=1ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.2.1: bytes=32 time=1ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.2.1: bytes=32 time=1ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.2.1: bytes=32 time=1ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.2.1: bytes=32 time=1ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.2.1: bytes=32 time=1ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.2.1: bytes=32 time=1ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.2.1: bytes=32 time=1ms TTL=64
Ping statistics for 192.168.2.1:
    Packets: Sent = 8, Received = 8, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
    Minimum = 1ms, Maximum = 1ms, Average = 1ms
Control-C
^C
...